M&P 9 vs. H&K P30?

[Guest BenderBendingRodriguez]

I'm probably about to give my Beretta to my dad, and so will be looking for something of a replacement. Primary uses would be as a bedside gun and range gun, but it could also be a potential cold weather carry gun, and if I get real crazy and start doing IDPA type activities I may want to use it there.

I would like to stick with 9mm for a variety of reasons. I know some people find 9mm inadequate. I respect that opinion, but don't care to hear it discussed.

I know many people are huge Glock fans. I am not. I do not find them comfortable to hold, and they do not shoot as well for me as I know, say, the M&P does.

I know a lot of people are in favor of just picking up a less expensive gun and then spending the difference on more ammo. For the sake of this discussion, assume that the price of the gun will not have any impact on the amount of ammo I have. The price is relevant because I have to get the purchase past wifey, in that I don't especially want to overpay for something, and that I would have to save my pennies a bit longer to pick up the P30. Regardless of which one I get, though, ammo will be purchased at the same rate it is purchased now.

With all that out of the way, here's my question:

I think I have my choices narrowed down to the M&P 9 and the H&K P30. Any strong reasons to choose one over the other? I have also given some consideration to picking up a Sig (226 or 229), but I don't think that, for the money, it would suit me as well as the H&K. I suppose I could be wrong.

M&P

Pretty good price (~$499), and very high capacity (17 +1). Fairly comfortable to hold and shoot, though I do have to break grip to drop mags. Don't mind the trigger, though I guess it could be changed later (but historically I have not been one to modify my guns). Reliable. Larger than the P30, though slightly thinner. Not tremendously exciting.

P30

Significantly more expensive (~$900), and slightly less capacity (15 +1). Most comfortable pistol I have ever held. Have not had a chance to shoot one, though, and don't know of a range that has one to rent. Trigger feels fine to me in dry fire. Reliable. Smaller than the M&P, though slightly thicker. Controls seem very easy to use, and I could probably adjust to the mag release without too much trouble. That would let me drop mags without breaking grip. Seems a bit more solid (to me), and somehow more exciting. Intrigued by the recoil buffer on the already low-recoil 9mm round.

Am I crazy for considering the P30? Anyone have trigger time on one? How much of the H&K price is just paying for the logo? Anything else obvious I'm missing about these guns, or something else I should be looking at instead?

[Guest Moody]

I have owned a P30 (sold it to a member on here). It's a solid, quality gun, and shoots quite well. I have also owned (do currently own) an M&P, albeit a 45, but have shot several of my friends' 9MM models.

The P30 was alot of fun, but I'm not really hardcore into *plasticky* guns, and for the price - it wasn't worth keeping. I sold it and bought another Sig, shortly afterwards. Yes, it's a comfortable gun, shoots well, etc... but I honestly (for the price, features, etc) prefer the M&P9. It's a reliable, great-shooting gun that is priced just right. Grab an M&P Pro 9 if you'd like - it's worth the money if you're looking for the features that it offers, and you don't want to have to add them yourself, later.

Granted, I'm in love with my Sigs, and honestly, it's not a matter of "this one's cheaper, so get it" as far as my opinion. It's a matter of, "I like this gun, but could buy a gun that costs twice as much, but I love it, and what it offers the carrier/shooter". I like my M&P so much, that I carry it over my Sigs (in 9mm or 45). Just my opinion, though, but with the M&P, you won't be sorry. And, if you don't like it, you can always move towards something else, like a Sig 226/229, etc.

[Guest BenderBendingRodriguez]

Which P30 did you have? If I go with the P30 I would have to decide if I wanted a LEM model or not.

As for tupperware guns, I totally understand your feelings. However, it's hard to argue with the weight savings if you intend to carry them at all (I think there's nearly a pound difference between the P30 and the 229!). And I'm not hugely concerned about their survivability, considering the reports I have seen of the longevity of both guns. For example, here is a P30 with 100k rounds still going strong: 100k Rounds (was 50k, then 75k): HK P30 LEM - M4Carbine.net Forums

[Guest motonut]

I'm not a firearms expert but I'm going to suggest you consider a Sig 2022 also. I've only had mine for about 10 days and 250 rds. but I love it. It gets outstanding reviews. In use w/ many military and police units as duty guns.

And for $400 w/ contrast and $450 for nite sights you can't beat it, IMHO.

I agree w/ you on the Glocks, they're just not comfortable in my hands. Many people love them and I won't knock them, they're just not for me.

I also own a 229 (and several others) and love it but it is not my range/bedside firearm.

Edited May 18, 2011 by motonut

[wcsc12]

M&P

Pretty good price (~$499), and very high capacity (17 +1). Fairly comfortable to hold and shoot, though I do have to break grip to drop mags. Don't mind the trigger, though I guess it could be changed later (but historically I have not been one to modify my guns). Reliable. Larger than the P30, though slightly thinner. Not tremendously exciting.

P30

Significantly more expensive (~$900), and slightly less capacity (15 +1). Most comfortable pistol I have ever held. Have not had a chance to shoot one, though, and don't know of a range that has one to rent. Trigger feels fine to me in dry fire. Reliable. Smaller than the M&P, though slightly thicker. Controls seem very easy to use, and I could probably adjust to the mag release without too much trouble. That would let me drop mags without breaking grip. Seems a bit more solid (to me), and somehow more exciting. Intrigued by the recoil buffer on the already low-recoil 9mm round.

Am I crazy for considering the P30? Anyone have trigger time on one? How much of the H&K price is just paying for the logo? Anything else obvious I'm missing about these guns, or something else I should be looking at instead?

Well, I've never shot an M&P but I've held a P30 and you're right about one thing...the price is insane. I really liked the P30L and the USP but I loved the Sig P226 more but that's my tastes. Between the two you have listed, I'd go with the P30 but I've gotten finicky lately. I prefer a gun with DA/SA now.

However, like everyone recommended to me, I would find the gun at a local range and try to shoot it first and then make your decision. I can say that piece of advice really helped me make my decision on buying my Sig. If you can't find one to rent, see if any of the members here or on another forum have one and would be willing to let you buy some ammo and shoot their gun with them at a range.

Edited May 18, 2011 by wcsc12

[babelt]

I have a full size M&P9 and a M&P9c and love them both. Smith and Wesson's service is top notch. I called today to check on the price for a replacement back strap to a gun I bought used and they said don't worry about that we will send it to you free! Thats one of the reasons I stick with Smith and Wesson!

[eapking]

I have a full size M&P9 and a M&P9c and love them both. Smith and Wesson's service is top notch. I called today to check on the price for a replacement back strap to a gun I bought used and they said don't worry about that we will send it to you free! Thats one of the reasons I stick with Smith and Wesson!

I'll second this. I love my M&P9 and their service is top notch.

Honestly this doesn't feel like apples and apples. HK is pretty dang proud of their stuff. Personally I don't get it.

[Warbird]

I owned a 30 and have shot numerous M&P's. The P30 is indeed a nice handling gun. It is durable and very well built. The HK has a higher bore sight axis and has a number of different trigger modules available at a price, not cheap. I personally prefer the M&P config better, but had no prob with the P30's profile. One thing I did have a prob with on the HK was the long slide release handles which caused me to hit that lever and kept the slide from locking back on last round. I do have a very high hand hold though. Maybe not the case for you.

As far as price I guess I would have a hard time saying they are worth that much of a difference. Is a higher dollar 1911 always worth the extra money over the less expensive models? Tough to say. Not for everybody it isn't. Depends on the use and abuse, the needs, etc. Sometimes the extra price of guns are worth it and sometimes not. Doesn't answer your question I know.The HK does have more trigger and safety avenues to go down than the M&P. The M&P's I have shot have benefited drastically with the Apex trigger assembly. Actually it was David here at TGO who turned me on to that, after I complained of the standard trigger, and I sought out some people who had made the change and shot their guns. He was right, much improved. The M&P's area fine guns and S&W does stand behind their products. They have now proven themselves to be durable and dependable. They are the only guns out there IMO to give Glock a run for their money in terms of market and LEO share.

All that said, I have been an HK fanboy I guess. I have or still do own the HK4, P7, P7M8, P30, HK45C, USP. They all ran well. I was a died in the wool P7 fanboy and if they were almost as light to carry the P7M13 as say a Glock or Sig I would pay for the cost and live with it as I shot it better than any other pistol I have ever owned without question. But in the end I shoot my Glocks well, they are light and I can shoot far more rounds, very accurately and faster than any other pistol I have spent time with. Oh and after 100 rounds my hands aren't burning like they do with the P7 guns.

If you plan to carry the gun, be aware and beware that the grip on the P30 is very aggressive and will tend to bite into your skin and drive you nuts when carried IWB next to the body,

Edited May 19, 2011 by Warbird

[Mark A]

I picked up a couple of m&p's recently. I stuck apex trigger parts in them and they work well. when I buy a gun I'm going to train with I buy a lot of mags. Since my wife is also training with one now I had to buy even more mags. If i were having to buy HK mags I would be having to eat bread and water for a while.

If you decide to go with the p30 I vote the lem trigger. My friends that have them had to train a bunch to get used to it but now they wouldn't shoot anything else. Also, the triggers can be changed. I know 2 guys that did it.

Mark

[Warbird]

I picked up a couple of m&p's recently. I stuck apex trigger parts in them and they work well. when I buy a gun I'm going to train with I buy a lot of mags. Since my wife is also training with one now I had to buy even more mags. If i were having to buy HK mags I would be having to eat bread and water for a while.

If you decide to go with the p30 I vote the lem trigger. My friends that have them had to train a bunch to get used to it but now they wouldn't shoot anything else. Also, the triggers can be changed. I know 2 guys that did it.

Mark

LEM light even.

Good point on the mags. ALL HK mags are steep. They are well made and tough as all get out, but you can buy at least 2 M&P mags for every HK mag in general

[Guest BenderBendingRodriguez]

Babelt - I know S&W has great service; that is one of the reasons I was originally drawn to their products. I think H&K also has good service if you can deal with the wait times... For a while I was considering getting an M&P and then a compact to replace my Kahr so I could have greater consistency when I carry, but I find the comfort a bit lacking on the compact. That may be something I could get over with time, though. If I get the P30, there would be no equivalent compact for me.

Warbird - You raise some good points. Thanks for taking the time to give such a long response. I was surprised to hear about the grip on the P30 being so bothersome IWB considering how awesome they feel in my hands, but I can take some solace in knowing that I ride my gun over a t-shirt and under my regular shirt when I carry IWB and if this is just a cold weather gun I may be carrying OWB under a jacket.

Mark A - I know what you mean about expensive mags. The extras for my Kahr are out of sight. I don't mind loading them up, though, so I would probably be fine with 2-3 mags in total for either gun. And I was leaning towards an LEM model (assuming I can even find one around here). The idea of a consistently weighted trigger pull at 2 different lengths is appealing to me. I think I would prefer that to the typical DA/SA setup, though I have no problem with the regular approach.

Ultimately I will probably have to listen to wcsc12 and find someone with a P30 who will let me try it out. Either that or just stick with the M&P, since I have had some trigger time on one already.

[Smith]

I've owned several M&P9's and loved them. I've handled the P30's and to me, even if the price were even, I'd go with the M&P. I've not been overwhelmed by H&K - any of them. IMO the M&P has better ergo's, lower bore axis, more holster sights and parts at decent prices, customer service, stainless slide, thinner, and price.

[hipower]

For me, the M&P 9 would be the choice. Haven't fired the P30, but having shot the M&P, I prefer the feel of it over the P30. JMO:)

[Warbird]

Mark A - I know what you mean about expensive mags. The extras for my Kahr are out of sight. I don't mind loading them up, though, so I would probably be fine with 2-3 mags in total for either gun. And I was leaning towards an LEM model (assuming I can even find one around here). The idea of a consistently weighted trigger pull at 2 different lengths is appealing to me. I think I would prefer that to the typical DA/SA setup, though I have no problem with the regular approach.

Ultimately I will probably have to listen to wcsc12 and find someone with a P30 who will let me try it out. Either that or just stick with the M&P, since I have had some trigger time on one already.

I think it would be very hard to find a P30 with a light LEM. There is more than one LEM and the standard has a horrendous first pull. Most people buy a standard P30 and buy the parts to convert it. The guys over at HK Pro forum could fill you in on how to get those parts. They will dazzle with knowledge about HK, but also are quite biased as most forums dedicated to a particular manufacturer are.

You will acclimate to another or a larger gun with a couple of weeks wear. Most anything that is easy to shoot in a major caliber will be about as big as the M&P sub or the Glock subs. We aren't talking government model 1911's in size. Now that does take some getting used to in my book, though there are those who carry those too.

[mav]

I think it would be very hard to find a P30 with a light LEM.

The V1 (4.5 lb) is hard to find, but they are becoming a litle bit easier. I know of a .40 LS with a V1 available right now from a dealer I have used in the past. Probably won't last long because they tend to sell rather quickly, especially the 9mm.

[Guest J.D. Skull]

CDNN has M&P on sale for $380.

[Guest TennTitan]

Bender, I currently own a P30 .40 S&W that's my EDC. Been carrying it for about 6 month and I am very pleased with it. I also looked at the M&P before I purchased this. The M&P is a great gun and I would go buy one today if i had the cash. For me I just liked the way the P30 felt, it shoots great and I've never had any issues with it.

It's a hard choice, but I think you will end up with the same performance from each firearm. They are both great and I wouldn't mind owning a M&P45 one day.

I would recommend that you purchase what you like and what firearm makes you most comfortable to shoot well and carry. That's the most important thing.

[LawVol]

CDNN has M&P on sale for $380.

honestly, there's a little bit of HK fanboy in me, and I have been planning on getting a P30 next. But for $380, it's really hard to justify not going with the M&P.

[Guest BenderBendingRodriguez]

honestly, there's a little bit of HK fanboy in me, and I have been planning on getting a P30 next. But for $380, it's really hard to justify not going with the M&P.

I am in complete agreement. If I can find the M&P for that price (full sized, no safety, regular mags, preferably no disconnect), I will absolutely pick one up. If I win at poker tonight the first thing I do in the morning will be order one. Except I can't seem to find that gun listed for that price with them. Am I just being dense?

[LawVol]

I got an email from CDNN on the $380 M&P's. Basically, Smith & Wesson is running a $50 factory rebate now. So, you pay CDNN $430 (which is still great) and get $50 back from S&W. I think the $430 price is for the thumb safety model, but from what I understand the safety is very easy to remove. If I get one, I'm keeping the thumb safety and installing an APEX competition kit.

Edited May 20, 2011 by LawVol

[Guest BenderBendingRodriguez]

I got an email from CDNN on the $380 M&P's. Basically, Smith & Wesson is running a $50 factory rebate now. So, you pay CDNN $430 (which is still great) and get $50 back from S&W. I think the $430 price is for the thumb safety model, but from what I understand the safety is very easy to remove. If I get one, I'm keeping the thumb safety and installing an APEX competition kit.

Ok, that makes a lot more sense. I saw them for $430 (and you're right about the thumb safety), but I did not know that there was a rebate going on. If that's the case, I might as well just buy from Guns & Ammo here in town. If I pay cash they're not collecting sales tax, so I can pick it up for $499 without any haggling or anything. Knock off the rebate and it's $450 in my hands, same day (well, the $50 comes back later, but you get the idea).

Or I could order, pay shipping, pay FFL, and wait. I don't come out very much ahead, plus I have to wait. And I have to remove the thumb safety. Not quite as anxious to jump on it as I was a few minutes ago, but a good night at poker tonight could definitely change my mind.

[Guest motonut]

Are we having a sales tax holiday?

[Guest BenderBendingRodriguez]

Are we having a sales tax holiday?

No, it's just a deal that particular store likes to run.

[graycrait]

On plastic or any guns, check trigger reset distance. Some folks don't mind long reset distance while others do.

[Guest tbone]

BenderBendingRodregez: It sounds like you are leaning toward the P30 in your initial post. I love the M&P and have several. If after shooting a P30, you are still really impressed, abandon logic (M&P) and follow your heart (P30). I say this because you could buy the M&P and find yourself still lusting after the P30. I have been in the same dilemma before and made the practical choice, only to come back later and buy what I was lusting for in the first place. I have some guns that I have payed an arm and a leg for and I still cherish them every time I shoot them. When that happens, it is still money well spent.