"Time Capsule" - Backyard arsenal

[Caster]

Also, dry ice is carbon dioxide. Meaning it has twice the oxygen molecules. And it is oxygen that causes steel and other materials to oxidize, or rust.

I may be off a bit in my theory but I think that adding Co2 to the container is probably not a good thing.

I would also make sure to have the ammo in the largest room of your house for a few days before sealing it in the vacuum bag. Do the same for the gun. And finally do the same with the tube before sealing.

The reason is your house will always be dryer than the outside or even a garage. And the reason for the largest room is it is less susceptible to major shifts in temperature which can cause condensation.

Dolomite

I'm no chemist but I don't see how the carbon dioxide molecule would break down.

[peejman]

I'm no chemist but I don't see how the carbon dioxide molecule would break down.

Right. N2 (or Argon) would be better, but CO2 is stable (at normal temps) and wouldn't break down.

Didn't think about the condensation from that. Might have to go home and try this to see what happens.

I have a guess.... if you put the dry ice in a vertical tube, let it completely sublimate and push the air out, then let it sit until the condensation evaporates, it might work. Since the CO2 is heavier than air, it shouldn't leak out or otherwise be motivated to be displaced by air. This would be best done in the desert or winter when the humidity is lowest.

[Guest nysos]

What would be wrong with just greasing down a gun and vacuum sealing it in a heavy duty bag, then storing it in a water proof container to bury? To me that seems like it would be the easiest.

[Caster]

We're also building mountains out of mole hills here. The Vietcong had stuff in rice patties. They're STILL digging German caches out of the ground in eastern Russia. It's not like any ComBlock nation used highly sophisticated methods of storage. All that stuff has yet to rust. We get mosins in every day that haven't seen light in my lifetime. No rust. The wonders of heavy grease!

[Guest nysos]

We get mosins in every day that haven't seen light in my lifetime. No rust. The wonders of heavy grease!

That is my mindset. It wouldn't hurt to do what Gordon suggested as well and let it soak in oil, depending on the finish it would allow it to absorb as much oil as possible. Then slather the whole sucker down in grease, wrap and pack.

[gjohnsoniv]

I think this also is more of a "what if," not a definite what to do guide or a toss ideas around and see what happens deal.

[Jamie Jackson]

Here is a few things to think about if you do

http://www.backwoods...s2/wood115.html

Thanks for the link buck

I started digging around in stack of Backwoods Home magazines looking for that article. Isn't cyber-technology great?

Excellent suggestions on here thus far as well.

I also read a book by Ragnar Benson entitled "Modern Weapons Chaching" back in the 90's. It contains some good info as well. But the Backwoods Home article has most of the info in the book.

As was already mentioned, terrain changes with the seasons, and over just a couple of years it can change significantly. Good solid non-changing landmarks are very helpful, like a large stone in the area. As long as we are "Grid Up", GPS co-ordinates would be great.

Thanks again for the link. It's an excellent article.

[Clod Stomper]

We're also building mountains out of mole hills here. The Vietcong had stuff in rice patties. They're STILL digging German caches out of the ground in eastern Russia. It's not like any ComBlock nation used highly sophisticated methods of storage. All that stuff has yet to rust. We get mosins in every day that haven't seen light in my lifetime. No rust. The wonders of heavy grease!

This. Big time.

Don't overcomplicate it. Coat metal parts with a light layer of cosmoline or grease. You don't want to have to soak them in solvent to put them back together, do you? Throw in a small dessicant pack. Make sure your container is sealed completely and that it will stay that way. PVC pipe with solid, cemented end caps will last longer than you will as long as it's not in sunlight. UV will break down PVC and make it fragile.

As for ammo, put it in a zip-loc type bag. That's enough. There isn't going to be enough moisture in that small space to do any damage.

Try to assemble the container where it's dry. Do it in the winter in front of your heater. Practically no moisture in the air there. If not possible, the dessicant will take care of any moisture in the container.

All the above is in the interest of redundancy. Because I love redundancy, I love redundancy. As long as your container is sealed well and stays sealed, you will have a perfectly functional piece of metal when you take it out.

Forget air-purging and all that. Keep it simple. Vacuum-seal if you want, but, again, it's redundant.

Edited August 3, 2012 by Clod Stomper

[Jonnin]

Also, dry ice is carbon dioxide. Meaning it has twice the oxygen molecules. And it is oxygen that causes steel and other materials to oxidize, or rust.

I may be off a bit in my theory but I think that adding Co2 to the container is probably not a good thing.

I would also make sure to have the ammo in the largest room of your house for a few days before sealing it in the vacuum bag. Do the same for the gun. And finally do the same with the tube before sealing.

The reason is your house will always be dryer than the outside or even a garage. And the reason for the largest room is it is less susceptible to major shifts in temperature which can cause condensation.

Dolomite

talking CO2 vs O2. They have the same amount of O in both! O2 is more easy to break apart. I am not sure if CO2 would promote rust over time or not, but you would be far better off with helium which is cheap, get a balloon or 3.

Rust is FeO, but to produce it, water plays a role due to an oxidization-reduction reaction which I have forgotten how that works but it is a multiple stage reaction instead of a simple one.

What it boils down to is that water is the big enemy, while oxygen containing "air" or co2 or whatever is not as bad. However since the goal is zero rust, rather than just preventing 'bad' rust, getting the oxygen out too would be the best approach IMHO. I think "air" or C02 either one would cause at least minor rusting over a long period. If there is any hydrogen in the mix, it will get worse in a hurry.

My chemistry is pretty rusty, (!!!) so I better stop there.

[JAB]

Being that the OP said (emphasis mine):

Hypothetically speaking... If I were going to bury a handgun and some ammo, what are the do's and dont's?

Since we're talking a handgun and not a rifle, II would have to wonder why fool with all the PVC pipe, gluing, etc. etc. etc.

Wouldn't it work just about as well to heavily oil the gun, maybe even give it a good, exterior coating of wheel bearing grease (heavy and temp resistant enough that it isn't going to melt off if the temps get warm but can pretty easily be wiped off before using the gun and some brands contain corrosion inhibitors) then bury it in one of these:

http://www.walmart.c...e-Blue/20563433

Those come in different sizes. This one is smaller:

http://www.walmart.c...indingMethod=rr

If one wanted to go a step further, the box could easily be wrapped in a layer or two of duct tape. Seems much simpler and more straightforward, to me.

Personally, if I were worried that handguns might one day be illegal, I'd probably want to bury something more along the lines of a compact or even subcompact. No sense going to all the trouble burying a big, ol' full-sized pistol only to risk being seen toting it around because it is too big to conceal well. One of the more compact 9mm, something along the lines of an LCP or P3AT or even one of the smaller .45s built for concealed carry would leave plenty of space in one of those boxes to stash spare mags, extra ammo and so on. A small revolver would also leave plenty of room for spare ammo without the need to stash spare mags, too.

Heck, for that matter it might even be wise to only stash a few rounds of ammo with the gun and bury your main ammo cache separately - maybe even dividing it up into two or three parts to be buried separately. Doing that, you could always decide to bury another handgun - or even a pistol caliber carbine - in the same caliber in a different location at a later date. That way, if one gun were found you'd still have the other and your ammo stash would not be compromised or if part of your ammo stash were found, you'd still have ammo in other places and would still have something to shoot it in - my thinking being that you'd have to be real unlucky or someone would have to be real determined for two, separate guns and two or three small ammo caches (rather than one big one) to all be discovered. For that, I'd probably want one smaller gun to begin with then later bury one or two Hi Points here or there just because they are relatively inexpensive. Personally, I don't have the resources to bury all that much of an investment in the ground so, despite my concerns regarding a full-size gun/reasons for wanting smaller, if I ever did something like this there is a good chance it would be exclusively Hi-Point pistols.

As someone else said, I would think that good, well made ammo placed in ziploc bags and then stacked inside the box with the firearm would be fine. Again, going a step further and putting the ziploc packed ammo into a dry bag like this before putting it in the box might be even better:

http://www.walmart.c...ry-Bag/17690257

I am using the Walmart.com links for this stuff just to show that such things are easy to find. These things are MADE for storing stuff and keeping it dry and they really aren't all that expensive. I could see some concern that the plastic of the box might crack over time but wrapping it in a couple of layers of duct tape should prevent that being a concern as long as the burial spot is chosen carefully.

The ammo I have for my Mannlicher carbine has Nazi markings and a 1938 headstamp. Some is loose and some are in en bloc clips packed into a thin, cardboard box with a stick-on paper label 'sealing' the lid. I haven't fired mine, yet, but my nephew got one of the same rifles and some of the same ammo from the same place. We have shot his, some, and have had no failure to go 'boom', yet. Maybe one could take the extra step that some folks take and put a thin coating of clear fingernail polish over/around the primers just for an extra seal - although I am not sure if that would have an adverse effect (corrosion, etc.) over time.

I also wonder about using a mortar shell tube (I've seen them available as military surplus, etc.) would work for such a purpose. They are made of heavy plastic - in fact, they look almost like a heavy-duty PVC pipe - and have a screw-on end cap and rubber O-ring. I've not tested the waterproof properties of one all that much but I did use some kind of an old, surplus shell tube way back when I was an art major at UT to carry around rolled up drawings and the like and it seemed pretty water-tight. Obviously, they are designed specifically for keeping ammo (mortar shells, etc.) safe and dry for storage which is why I wonder if that would work.

Edited August 3, 2012 by JAB

[Caster]

I was remembering something we used to use on die sets when we would put them in the storage rack. Ya'll look at this.

http://www1.mscdirect.com/cgi/NNSRIT2?PMAKA=00255257&PMPXNO=1658182&cm_re=ItemDetail-_-ResultListing-_-SearchResults

[Caster]

I'm thinking one of these

http://www.armygear.net/ag/store/ac120.html

Fill it with a rifle + ammo, pistol + ammo, change of clothes, good knife and a small satchel filled with survival goodies like a fire kit, water filter ECT. Maybe toss in a vacuum sealed pack of cigars and half pint of Johnny Walker. Then put the lid on and spray the whole thing down with the above spray and slide it in a trash bag. The can will survive our lifetime buried in the dirt but it'd be a lot easier to open if it wasn't all crusty.

[Caster]

You know what the hardest part of all this is gonna be? Putting your stuff in it's place and zippin' your lip about it.

I was just thinking of some of the best places around here for such a thing and I was like: "ooo that's a cool idea, I oughta post that!" THen I think, "What's wrong with you, are you stupid?"

[Guest Aces&8s]

As far as actually *doing* it.... I would consider "burying" it inside your home as one option. Inside a wall, bricked up in the platform in front of a fireplace, under the floorboards, in the foundation, something. Still preserve and all, just avoid the exposure of outdoors yet keep all but the most determined search from locating it. (Inside, outside, if they have metal detectors and scanners its all over. At least inside, there is enough metal to confuse that somewhat.)

This. Not too many people would think twice about a length of PVC under the floor that appears to run from the bathroom to the sewer line. Just remember which pipe to "break in case of emergency!"

[Guest Nunya]

Didn't mean to start a mathematical and scientific war, here. I have helium, so that would work just fine. And I'm sure Cosmoline is easy enough to get.

[Guest Nunya]

You know what the hardest part of all this is gonna be? Putting your stuff in it's place and zippin' your lip about it.

I was just thinking of some of the best places around here for such a thing and I was like: "ooo that's a cool idea, I oughta post that!" THen I think, "What's wrong with you, are you stupid?"

Yep, I took everyone's advice and it's buried under my pecan tree, just in case you wanted to come dig it up tomorrow night

[Dolomite_supafly]

Another place to hide firearms that gives you easy access and is well hidden is inside your home and you probbly don't even know it. Every house is built the same way, 16" or 24" between 2x4 studs, and gives you plenty of room for a weapon and ammo. And if you use and interior wall the moisture content should be the same as any safe that is also inside the house. I would still seal it in something but long life of the material isn't as critical if it isn't exposed to hot/cold cycles. A good grease like cosmoline and oiled paper would probably work.

Most people do not want to do this because of the work involved but the cost is relatively low. You can patch a wall for under $25 in materials.

And that way you do not need to leave in order to retrieve your firearms. And if it has gotten to the point you are grabbing a stash gun who cares about a hole in the wall.

The down side is if your house burns down so I would not stash everything in you house but maybe a outside stash and an inside stash. Perhaps a firearm stashed in your house you can use to get to your outside stash.

Dolomite

[Dolomite_supafly]

And one more place.

For those on a septic system your septic tank would make a great place as well. You would definitely need to really seal it, I would recommend PVC tube with end caps, but that is probably one of the better places. The stuff in a septic system is probably one of the most corrosive enviroments so you definitely need to seal it well. But how many people are going to open up your septic tank to look for something? It is disgusting to think about, smells and full of bateria that can make most people sick so probably not a lot.

They are pretty easy to access. They have a door that can be lifted off revealing an opening. Or what until the next time you have to have it vacuumed out.

I know when they are trying to confinscate guns most government types are not going to be pleased with it anyways. And they are not going to be sifting through someone's elses poo to find something.

Dolomite

[Jamie Jackson]

Excellent suggestions Dolomite.

I like the idea of redundancy...having both an inside & an outside stash. And septic tank, I agree, is one of the least likely places to be checked.

I would think either the PVC suggestion or caster's suggestion of a mortar canister would work well.

Regards a potential fire...a buddy of mine in Louisiana, when he built on an addition to his house, put a 2'x6' wide x 2' deep lined and sealed hole in his concrete flooring, covered with a metal locking lid, and carpeted over it. Not extremely rapid access, but he was able to store a good bit of gear in it. He had it set up so as to be able to lift up the carpet for access, but with furniture setting on top when not accessing it.

I appreciate all of the good ideas, suggestion and thought processes.

Dolomite is right in that most peace officers will not be too enthused about weapon searches on honest folks...but unfortunately there are overzealous F-troop types that would be...but I think they are definitely a minority...I hope anyway...

[Guest Nunya]

Regards a potential fire...a buddy of mine in Louisiana, when he built on an addition to his house, put a 2'x6' wide x 2' deep lined and sealed hole in his concrete flooring, covered with a metal locking lid, and carpeted over it. Not extremely rapid access, but he was able to store a good bit of gear in it. He had it set up so as to be able to lift up the carpet for access, but with furniture setting on top when not accessing it.

That is awesome! Simple and cheap, too. I've been thinking about concreting my dirt cellar, anyway.

Edited August 4, 2012 by bentonbjones

[Jamie Jackson]

That is awesome! Simple and cheap, too. I've been thinking about concreting my dirt cellar, anyway.

I like thinking outside the box as T. did, and the cost was negligible. He was a pretty clever Bud.

It'd be much easier to do initially when building than afterwards...but still wouldn't be that difficult.

Since you're in the initial planning stage, you have a lot of options open to you.

[Guest nysos]

I have a concrete slab for my basement floor. I may have to rent a jackhammer one weekend and build myself a stash box in the floor as well. I like that idea.

[dats82]

I have a concrete slab for my basement floor. I may have to rent a jackhammer one weekend and build myself a stash box in the floor as well. I like that idea.

If you're married, I would love to hear that conversation with the wife.

[peejman]

I have a concrete slab for my basement floor. I may have to rent a jackhammer one weekend and build myself a stash box in the floor as well. I like that idea.

Not a jackhammer, a masonry wet saw. Cut out the outline and few whacks with a sledge. Then lots of digging. Be sure there's no plumbing under the slab. Stay well away from outside walls or support posts. Make sure you've got good drainage, backfill with gravel.

[KaNuckles]

I'm pretty sure just wrapping in insulation would stop condensation.