threeshot

Do you think a judge should stop the guns-in-restaurants bill from going into effect Tuesday, July 14, 2009? Thank you for participating in our poll. Here are the results so far. Yes 50% No 50% Other 0%

Do you have a link to that interview?

My understanding is FFL dealers at gun shows are still required to perform the background checks as if they were back at their shop. Is that correct? Or are you saying that most of the tables at the gun show are private owners selling guns verses FFL dealers at the show?

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20090712/COUNTY090101/907120321/1164/COUNTY09/Leaders%20take%20up%20gun%20issue%20as%20opposing%20sides%20cite%20personal%20safety?GID=0 Leaders take up gun issue as opposing sides cite personal safety By Kevin Walters • and Bonnie Burch • July 12, 2009 FRANKLIN —A hotheaded parent wields a pistol during an argument at a ball game. Or, a masked man catches an unarmed jogger alone on a park trail with disastrous results. They're the two worst-case scenarios no one on either side of the debate over allowing guns in Williamson County parks wants to happen. But those are the potential ramifications that guns-in-parks supporters and detractors contend could occur, depending on how the cities and county's elected leaders vote. Decisions could start to come Monday, when the Williamson County Commission and the Brentwood City Commission vote separately on whether they will opt out of a new state law allowing gun owners with permits to carry their handguns to local parks. The law is set to go into effect Sept. 1. Franklin Mayor John Schroer and city aldermen will discuss a resolution banning guns in city parks on Tuesday evening, with a vote to follow later this month. Spring Hill leaders will likely vote later this summer on that city's stance. A survey by reporters from The Tennessean found opposition to allowing guns in local parks from local law enforcement and top elected leaders. County Sheriff Jeff Long along with police chiefs of Franklin, Brentwood and Spring Hill are all against the state law. Franklin Mayor John Schroer and Brentwood Mayor Betsy Crossley, who has a permit to carry a handgun, each support a ban of guns in local parks. Crossley said she came to the conclusion to prohibit firearms in all nine city parks, greenways and trails after discussing whether that would also prohibit school children from using these outdoor areas. "I think we have a very safe city," she said. "Although you can never discount what could happen and I'm a very Second Amendment rights person, I think we've got to allow kids to use our parks. And if we didn't opt out, the schools couldn't be in our parks." Confusion, costs are factors The question of how the new law might impact the county school system remains a potentially expensive decision that's left county commissioners puzzled. For example, Woodland Middle School uses the softball fields in the city's Crockett Park while Brentwood High School plays on the ball fields at Granny White Park. If the new law takes effect without Brentwood opting out, neither school would be allowed to use those facilities because handgun owners could bring their guns to those parks. According to state and federal regulations, schools cannot use facilities where guns are allowed. The county would then need to buy more land to build new, separate parks exclusively for school use. The prospects of doing that could cost Williamson County as much as $30 million, according to estimates from county officials. "I just think it's something that nobody thought through," said Lisa Carson, county attorney, about the state lawmakers' decision to pass the law this year. County Parks Director Doug Hood, who also is a gun owner, is adamantly against allowing guns in parks because of safety questions, the potential expense and confusion the new law would create among thousands of volunteers. "I have not talked to one person who said that they think this was a good idea," Hood said. Through Carson, Sheriff Jeff Long has said he is opposing guns in parks. He could not be reached directly for contact. Leaders caught in quandary Though a handful of elected officials do have carry permits, only Franklin Ward 2 Alderman Dana McLendon has spoken up in favor of allowing guns at some city parks, such as the Franklin's passive parks. "It's become the third rail of local politics," said McLendon about the hesitancy of some to speak in favor of the new law. County commissioners have met three times to discuss guns in parks with little discussion and no support for having guns in parks. Commissioner Mary Brockman, who is sponsoring a resolution banning guns in county parks, was puzzled why Hood's arguments didn't elicit more vocal support to ban guns in parks. "For some reason, on this issue, they're not swaying the membership the way they normally do," Brockman said. Several county commissioners who are listed in public records as having handgun carry permits could not be reached for comment for this story. County Commissioner Reba Greer, who has a handgun carry permit, said she remains uncertain about how she'll vote on the matter until more information about the impact of the law continues to come to light. "I'm keeping an open mind until Monday morning," Greer said. Ward 1 Alderman Bev Burger owns guns and says she's in the process of getting a carry permit. Yet she's torn about how she's going to vote on the issue. Franklin aldermen will vote on the matter at their July 28 meeting. "It's going to be very difficult for me because I do believe it's a freedom issue," Burger said. "Our freedoms are being eroded every single day." As for public response, Burger says e-mails from residents are three-to-one in favor of allowing guns in city parks. Meantime, McLendon says fears about what might happen if handgun-permit holders brought their guns to local parks are overblown. "I think that the same hyperbole is being raised now that was raised 12-15 years ago when the permit law became effective: blood in the streets and Wild West shoot-outs," McLendon said. "As we know from 12-15 years of experience, that didn't happen." Parks are routinely safe Franklin police say they dealt with 87 reported offenses in Franklin's city parks from 2006 to 2008. Offenses included vandalism against the parks, disorderly conduct and DUI arrests. Of that number, 21 were committed against individuals — mostly property crimes. Only three were crimes committed by suspects who did not know their victims, police said. Crimes included a 2006 assault when one softball player refused to shake hands with another, and four incidents in 2008 that included two robberies, one committed with an air gun, and two aggravated assaults involving juveniles. One of those arguments involved children armed with a hatchet and a knife and a second where older children were scaring younger ones with PVC pipe and knives. The biggest concern among officials is what might happen if guns were present at sporting events. "Many of our parks are host to a variety of competitive sporting events, where passions and tempers have the tendency to flare from time to time," said Franklin Police Chief Jackie Moore. "Adding weapons to that equation could conceivably result in an avoidable tragedy." Chad Story, Franklin resident, said the matter comes down to individual responsibility. "Do not deny people the ability of self-protection because of unfounded fears and criticism," Story told aldermen. "To lump law-abiding citizens in the same category of the individuals that do not abide by the law is highly presumptuous and the people of this county deserve better than assumptions." Meantime, Spring Hill Police Chief John Smith said he plans to urge city leaders to prohibit guns in parks, possibly in August because he may be out of town Monday for the Board of Mayor and Aldermen's work session. "I think they know my position on it and hopefully they'll agree to it," he said. "We're definitely going to push the issue." Keith Hudson, the board's representative on the city's Parks and Recreation Commission, said he plans to back Smith at that future meeting. He said he's heard mostly from mothers on the issue and they want guns prohibited at parks. "I'm for the Second Amendment, but I think when we look at putting guns in parks, it really takes away from the calm, free-spiritedness we want at parks," Hudson said. Thompson's Station may also discuss the matter in August, since its board of mayor and aldermen do not have a meeting scheduled for this month. Alderman Corey Napier has said it's a decision the board would want wide community input on before deciding. Fairview Mayor Ken Brison said his city, which oversees only the 722-acre Bowie Nature Park, does not have to deal with the issue. "I believe that under the conservation easement we signed, Bowie park doesn't allow guns, period," Brison said. "I know the deed had restrictions about having guns."

It made all my problems seem minuscule after hearing Marcus tell how his SEAL team fought and died bravely for the U<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:country-region w:st="on">SA</st1:country-region>. Also that Marcus survived being captured by the Teliban. God bless our men & women of the armed forces. ;)

After watching the video you get the explanation of why Marcus was arrested. The video is worth watching.

Thank you Strickj and Fallguy!

Can someone provide me with the steps to use the multi quote button? How do I quote a post with a quote within the post? How do I quote two or more posts within a tread using the multi quote button? Thank you.

^^^ That is not going to help. The issue I have is that the commissioners are keeping their cards close to the vest until they vote on the opt-out on July 13th. There is no opportunity to clarify the facts or debate this issue(s) to those commissioners that would vote to opt-out.

Williamson officials keep silent on gun-ban question | tennessean.com | The Tennessean By Kevin Walters • THE TENNESSEAN • July 7, 2009 FRANKLIN — For the third time in two weeks, Williamson County commissioners refused to speak about whether handguns should be banned in county parks. A resolution sponsored by Commissioners Mary Brockman, Mary Mills and Judy Hayes would prevent gun owners from bringing their guns to all public parks owned and operated by Williamson County. That would include nature trails, waterways, greenways, historic parks and similar places. Beginning Sept. 1, handgun owners who have carry permits can bring their guns to all local parks in Tennessee, unless leaders in local governments choose to ban them. But on Monday a group of commissioners sent the resolution to the full, 24-member board of commissioners without any recommendation and only limited discussion. "I'm surprised," said Brockman, chairwoman of the county property committee, about the reticence of her fellow commissioners. "I thought the information has been very persuasive". Parks chief speaks out Last week, commissioners serving on the budget committee also forwarded the resolution to the full commission without any vote. Back on June 25, 14 commissioners declined to vote at all on the matter. No commissioner spoke in favor of allowing guns in parks, though discussion centered around allowing guns at some parks and not in others. Commissioners also discussed whether they would allow guns at future parks, such as a 200-acre "springs" property near Leiper's Fork. County Parks Director Doug Hood spoke out passionately on the matter, saying allowing guns to be brought to county parks will create burdens on park and law enforcement staff. County Sheriff Jeff Long has opposed allowing guns in county parks. "I'm a gun owner, but I just don't understand," Hood said. "We're leaving out the thing that you fund the most and the thing you care about the most — our schoolchildren. I've been here almost 20 years, and that's who gets funded first." County schools use many county parks, mostly for athletics. Allowing guns at those parks would create a conflict with the county schools, where guns are not allowed, said Jason Golden, schools attorney. Hood said that allowing guns in parks could require county officials to spend $20 million or more to create new sports facilities specifically for school use where guns would not be allowed. When county commissioners vote Monday morning, they will be the first legislative body in Williamson County to vote on the matter. Brentwood officials are expected to take up the matter Monday evening, and Franklin leaders will follow suit Tuesday night.

Resolution would ban guns in Williamson County parks | tennessean.com | The Tennessean By Kevin Walters • The Tennessean • July 6, 2009 A new resolution seeks to bar gun owners from bringing weapons to any Williamson County-owned park, trail or historic site. Beginning Sept. 1, handgun owners who have carry permits can bring their guns to all local parks in Tennessee, unless leaders in local governments choose to ban them. The General Assembly passed the new law a few weeks ago. But the resolution sponsored by County Commissioners Mary Brockman, Mary Mills and Judy Hayes would prevent gun owners from bringing their guns to all public parks owned and operated by Williamson County. That would include nature trails, waterways, greenways, historic parks and other similar places. The issue will be discussed at 5 p.m. tonight at a meeting of the county Property Committee, at the Williamson County Administrative Complex in Franklin. The entire board of county commissioners will vote on the matter July 13.

I would search the TGO forums for Uselton's then decide if you want to provide them with your patronage.

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Follow the money. The fear is lawsuit(s) and higher insurance premiums if the restaurant owners start filing claims with their insurance company to defend them from the lawsuits. The some restaurant owners believe they are damned if they post due to they will be sued if someone was unable to protect themselves from a deadly encounter. They also feel damned if they do not post and the very rare, if nonexistent HCP shooting occurs or sued by patrons if a non-HCP shooting injures someone because the restaurant "allowed" guns. Even if the lawsuit get’s thrown-out, it still cost somebody money to defend the restaurant from the lawsuit.

I assume from your post that you have dove hunted in Argentina. I have seen hunting TV shows regarding dove hunting in Argentina, how do you keep-up with retrieving the downed birds? It seems the hunters are shooting as fast as they can without retrieving the birds from the field.

Again, what some restaurant owners are concern about is their liability for allowing or not allowing HCP holders in the very rare shooting event from an HCP holder or the more likely event of a non-HCP holder shooting. If wording were added to the law to remove the restaurant owners’ liability from allowing or disallowing firearms at their establishment, this email would be irrelevant.

Embedding has been disabled so you will have to play it on YouTube's site by clicking on the Title in the YouTube box.

OMG! I misread that part of the article thinking they opened a police precinct.

Restaurateur ready to challenge ?Guns in bars? | Nashville City Paper: Nashville's Online Source for Daily News Tuesday, June 30, 2009 at 2:45pm Nashville Attorney David Randolph Smith officially will file a lawsuit Wednesday challenging the guns in bars legislation passed by state Legislators a few weeks ago. Smith plans to file the suit at 10 a.m. in Chancery Court in the Metro Davidson Courthouse on behalf of 10 Tennessee citizens with Nashville restaurateur Randy Rayburn as the lead plaintiff. Rayburn, owner of the Sunset Grill, Midtown Café and Cabana, along with 9 others is suing the State of Tennessee (Attorney General as defendant), challenging the legality and constitutionality of Public Chapter 339 which permits the carrying of loaded concealed firearms by permit holders into all restaurants and bars that serve alcohol. The suit is asking for a temporary restraining order and temporary and permanent injunction to stop the law from taking effect on July 14. The plaintiffs will allege that the bill is illegal on eight counts. Among them being, that the law is an unlawful public nuisance that threatens the life, health and safety of the public, as well as violating due process and increasing civil liability for the restaurants. Plaintiffs claim it also violates Tennessee's Occupational Safety and Health Act that expressively requires as a matter of federal and state law that employers provide a safe work place for employees. While a permit holder cannot drink alcohol while carrying a loaded weapon in a bar or restaurant, the new law doesn’t stop that person from having previously consumed alcohol.

Church Camp Members Affected By Illness - Nashville News Story - WSMV Nashville Long Hollow Baptist Church Cancels Wednesday Programming POSTED: 12:16 pm CDT June 29, 2009 UPDATED: 2:41 pm CDT June 29, 2009 NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- A local church's summer plans were cut short a day early after an illness affected some of the 600 people who attended. Leaders at Long Hollow Baptist Church said several of the middle school students, adult staff members and volunteers became sick while attending a summer camp in east Tennessee. Some were being treated for the flu, while others contracted strep throat. The church brought its high school campers home early because of the illnesses. Leaders canceled Sunday services at all three Long Hollow churches in Hendersonville, White House and Gallatin. As a precaution, the church has also canceled all Wednesday programming on all three campuses. Activities scheduled for July 4 and Sunday services on July 5 are expected to be held.

Can someone outline Frank's "issues" for those of us in the dark?

If I understand the amendment correctly, it is to prevent providing part of the HCP database. Even one record. Good amendment! Otherwise a loophole would exist that would make it possible to request one record (interested in one person) or part of the database.

Guns in parks provision stirs divisive debate | tennessean.com | The Tennessean

Guns in parks issue complex at county level | tennessean.com | The Tennessean Guns in parks issue complex at county level School use could be factor in ban By Kevin Walters • THE TENNESSEAN • June 28, 2009 FRANKLIN — Williamson County leaders might feel anxious about the state's recent move to legalize the possession of handguns in public parks, but they're not willing to support any resolution to prohibit guns in county-owned parks — at least not yet. With 14 members of the 24-member County Commission on hand, commissioners on Thursday walked away without calling for a resolution that would make it illegal for gun owners to bring handguns into county parks. Come Sept. 1, state law will allow gun owners who have permits to carry handguns into public parks. But local governments can forbid them, but only if leaders cast a majority vote against the new law. The County Commission is the first municipality within Williamson County to discuss the matter in an official forum. Individual cities also have the option to opt out of the state law. Houston Naron Jr., chairman of the County Commission, said commissioners have until noon on July 13 to file a resolution on the matter in time for the commission's monthly meeting that evening. He called for Thursday's meeting of members of three county committees to discuss the issue. Even among county leaders who are gun owners, the matter remains a difficult one. Naron, who calls himself a strong supporter of the Second Amendment, said, "The difficulty I have is the very fact that guns and kids don't mix." Those concerns were echoed by fellow gun owner Doug Hood, who is director of Parks and Recreation for the county. Hood said he's spoken with other parks directors, all of whom were opposed to the measure. "I'm very much opposed to this," Hood said. Most county parks include sports fields or other active features, though passive parks are under development along the Natchez Trace and a passive park is planned for the Franklin Springs area west of Leiper's Fork. Meantime, Williamson County Mayor Rogers Anderson is researching how many county parks also used by county schools would be affected by the law. It would appear to be illegal for handguns to be permitted on properties either owned by school districts or used by schools. If commissioners do not vote on the resolution, it would take effect Sept. 1. County commissioners do not have a scheduled meeting in August. Franklin officials will discuss the law during their July 14 meeting.