WILD Am I

[Guest lurky1]

What's up y'all. I'm an avid outdoorsman originally from Bristol and went to college in Lebanon (outside Nashville). My brother went to U.T. and my nephew graduated from ETSU. I've been living in Northern California over 20 years now and want to get into hunting. I've been fishing, camping, hiking, mountain biking and other outdoor stuff all my life and am currently building an outdoor/adventure ministry.

My main question right now is getting a handgun from Bristol out here to where I live. My dad died a few years ago and left a .38 revolver with my mom. I want to get that handgun out here to take to the range and hone my skills as I get on the hunting track eventually (not the pistol of course).

What laws should I be concerned about and what's the process?

Also, I'm looking at some hunting rifles and bows as well. Any suggestions for a beginner? There's so much information available and people have so many opinions it's hard to know what's the best equipment and direction.

I've done a lot of research and narrowed it down to probably a Glock 19 chambered in S&W .40 caliber for my handgun. Looking at a few different shotguns and/or centerfires for deer and/or plinking. Have a gun class coming up in a couple of weeks at a local range and got a bunch of tips from the rangemaster too.

I really have been wanting to do this a long time, so here I go! Got big fish and venison backstraps on the brain!

KB

[Marswolf]

Well, as long as the guns you are getting from your mom are not on California's forbidden list, she just needs to have a local gun shop ship them to a gun shop you have talked to about doing a transfer. Not difficult, just time consuming. Just ask your local shop about it. Or, if You are coming for a visit, you can just take them home with you in luggage. Frankly it's less of a hassle to ship them. Might cost a few bucks though.

I'm curious about something. If you look around here a bit, you'll find I really don't like Glocks except possibly as a professional duty weapon. I'm not trying to talk you out of it though. I'm just wondering how you have narrowed your choice to probably a Glock with all the other guns out there.

[Rightwinger]

Welcome!

Move back!

Get a 1911!

Welcome!

[BimmerFreak]

Welcome

Where do you live in NorCal?

I moved from Chico, CA. to Winchester, TN. back in 11/03

[Guest GlocKingTN]

Welcome to the forum! Hope you enjoy!

[Guest Len]

Well, Lurky1 clearly is a person of taste in handguns.

One thing Lurky1, you are probably looking for a Glock 23. The 19 is chambered in 9mm, the 23 is in .40S&W. You'll find the 23 to be *slightly* heavier loaded, but otherwise the specs on the two are virtually identical. If you like the ballistics of the .40 round, go 23. If you want to save a little money on ammo, go 19.

I'm curious about something. If you look around here a bit, you'll find I really don't like Glocks except possibly as a professional duty weapon. I'm not trying to talk you out of it though. I'm just wondering how you have narrowed your choice to probably a Glock with all the other guns out there.

[towerclimber37]

Good luck owning a firearm in the Communist republic of Kalifornia!

Have your mom fax or email a legible copy of her drivers liscense to the gunshop that you want to pick up the weapon from, or mail it with the firearm to the gunshop. MAKE sure that they know to expect a firearm for you. Normally all you would pay is the ncis fee.

The pistol has to be overnighted!

when I mailed a pistol to my brother, I had the number to his gunshop, and was in communication with them so they knew when I mailed it (I did it fed ex). and they gave me a tracking number.

everything went without a hitch!

[Guest lurky1]

Thx for the quick replies. That's good info.

Marswolf: I did a buncha rsrch, Chuck Hawkes and others; the safety features on the Glock initially got my attention; safety is paramount as I'm just gettin started. The lack of external safety is a little hairy. The "safe-action" trigger seems like a positive. Plus they seem versatile and easy to maintain and larger capacity. I've heard all about the problems they're alleged to have re: blowback, slides and rails breaking, but just as many positives, so I'm kinda stuck. I'm not at all locked in to Glock, just doing my due diligence before sinking in the bucks and time.

Rightwinger: Why the 1911? I've considered the S&W 342PD for home and personal protection when camping and/or on the trails but unsure if ANY gun will really help in that scenario. Good judgment will beat out any weapon, I believe, but things happen and I wanna be prepared.

Hero Gear: I live in Oakland and go to the Chabot Gun Club in San Leandro. I travel all over NorCal and the Sierra foothills, as well as central and SoCal. My family's all on the east coast and have considered moving back, maybe to Charlotte or Raleigh/Durham area.

Len: thx for the clarification. the 23 is probably what the rangemaster meant when he suggested Glock 40. kinda new at this game, ya know?

Tower Climber: good info re: shipping. I'm a shipping mgr by vocation so I have easy access to both UPS and FedEx (and other carriers). What's an "ncis fee"?

I'm also seriously considering a versatile (possibly combo-barrel) rifle for plinking, varmints and eventually deer and larger game. Trying not to spend too much starting out, but want quality and versatility. More bang (pardon the pun) for the buck, ya know? My rsrch has led me to the Savage 308, but I've also heard horror stories about it as well. With the right cash outlay I would try to go with a Pre 64 Winchester (or Model 70 or 798); the Browning A-Bolt II Hunter gets great press, but expensive and probably outa my league to start off with. Don't need to buy a nuclear sub to shoot deer.

Keep it coming, I'm getting closer!

KB

[towerclimber37]

Tower Climber: good info re: shipping. I'm a shipping mgr by vocation so I have easy access to both UPS and FedEx (and other carriers). What's an "ncis fee"?

An NCIS fee is an instant background check..they cost 10 bucks here..don't know about there. The Gunshop will do one on you when you pick up your pistol.

As for the Glock series handguns, I will weigh in on it in a manner that you can understand..and I hope that it will help in your deliberations.

1. A glock has a "safe action" trigger. that means there's only ONE safety on the weapon..and its incorporated into the trigger. That means that if you put your finger on the trigger you have just removed any safety that that weapon has.

Human nature, for someone who has never trained or who is new to pistols, is to put their finger on the trigger.

when you clean this weapon, you have to pull the trigger to take it apart...this is where a great many of the accidental discharges come from, even from experience operators!

add that in with the unsafe design of the rest of the pistol and there you have it...

why a 1911? a 1911 has no less than 4 independent safeties incorporated into the design. Yet its so simple that when you're ready to shoot, you'll be able to with less than a thought.

Also the 1911 has many MANY parts on the market to customize it, if you need to do so. The Glock? not so much. The glock is, in my opinion, a weapon that is designed to fail.

then again, I'm a follower of John MOSES Browning...the guy that designed the m1911 automatic pistol. That being said, I don't carry a 1911, I carry another of his creations, the browning hi power Mk III.

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=607&page=3

Some may say I'm fanatical..but the 1911 has been carried by every major military for the past 100 years. Its seen at least 3 wars by the U.S. alone!

its very forgiving safety wise and has enough power to knock down a target quickly and effectively.

just my .2

[Guest lurky1]

Thx, Tower. That does make sense. I'll look further into the 1911.

Whaddya know about the S&W 686 4" bbl .357 (or .44)?

[towerclimber37]

Thx, Tower. That does make sense. I'll look further into the 1911.

Whaddya know about the S&W 686 4" bbl .357 (or .44)?

Smith and Wesson makes some of the best wheel guns out there.

the 686 is an awesome pistol, in my opinion...and .357 has better knockdown statistics than a .45

you can also use .38 to practice with or just pull off some rounds..so its a great pistol!

[Marswolf]

Marswolf: I did a buncha rsrch, Chuck Hawkes and others; the safety features on the Glock initially got my attention; safety is paramount as I'm just gettin started. The lack of external safety is a little hairy. The "safe-action" trigger seems like a positive. Plus they seem versatile and easy to maintain and larger capacity. I've heard all about the problems they're alleged to have re: blowback, slides and rails breaking, but just as many positives, so I'm kinda stuck. I'm not at all locked in to Glock, just doing my due diligence before sinking in the bucks and time.

Thanks for taking time to reply, Lurky1. I'd suggest doing some additional research. Might start with http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/gindex2.html. Oddly enough, the lack of any real safeties is one of the few things I like about Glocks. Search the topics here too. I owed two Glocks at one time but now consider them to be an unsafe design. No need to beleaguer the point.

BTW, this is what it looks like when a G23 blows up from a case failure due to the poor chamber design:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vceh44UK-8I&eurl=

[molonlabetn]

Don't forget that in Cali, you'll have trouble buying magazines which hold more than 10rd... so, one of the benefits which the Glock (and other double-stack polymer pistols) have is effectively minimized. Find a pistol which fits your hands, first of all...

Full-size .45acp 1911s hold 8 in the magazine... and .40s&w Browning Hi-Powers hold 10 in the magazine. Both of those pistols have exceptional ergonomics and accuracy.

Welcome to TGO!

[Guest lurky1]

Thx again, Tower. The article helped further clarify the Glock issues and the YouTube vid kinda cemented my decision-making process. More likely to go w/the 1911, Browning HP .45, or that S&W 686.

Whether it's the gun's fault or the ammo, I just don't wanna deal with it given that there are several viable alternatives, maybe even better. Keepin an open mind though till I actually have some hands on.

[Guest Phantom6]

Welcome to the boards. Wait until you visit your mother and then buy the gun here and then pack the firearms (your new one and the one(s) you dad left you) in a air shipping container and carry them back out to Kalifornia with you. Just make sure that you know what the laws are concerning safety's and mag capacity are.

[towerclimber37]

Don't forget that in Cali, you'll have trouble buying magazines which hold more than 10rd.

Full-size .45acp 1911s hold 8 in the magazine... and .40s&w Browning Hi-Powers hold 10 in the magazine. Both of those pistols have exceptional ergonomics and accuracy.

Welcome to TGO!

Julies' witness holds 10 in the magizine and its .45! not exactly a good carry pistol though..too hard to conceal

[Guest Len]

Lurky1:

You're definitely thinking like me! (Many on the board would probably see that as a BAD sign...)

Anyway, in addition to a Glock 19, I own a S&W 686+ 4" in .357. Awesome revolver. 7 shots (as many as some 1911 semi-autos!), built like a tank, easy to use/clean, heck of a trigger pull in double action if you are concerned about Towerclimber's safety issues (around 14lbs). Plus, you can load .38 ammo in it for cheaper practice. Much heavier than a Glock or similar polymer gun.

Some unclear statements on Glock safeties here. The Glock action actually incorporates 3 different safeties that pretty much prevent a discharge unless the center of the trigger is pulled fully to the rear. If you prefer a manual safety, there are many "Glock-like"/polymer guns out there, including some made by S&W -check out their M&P pistol line. These essentially imitate the action of a Glock but have more conventional safeties. Lots of good stuff out there, be sure to "test drive" (grip, handle, hold, hopefully shoot) before you buy!

And welcome!

-Len

Thx, Tower. That does make sense. I'll look further into the 1911.

Whaddya know about the S&W 686 4" bbl .357 (or .44)?

[Guest lurky1]

Thx again for the obviously experienced info. And Marswolf, I gave credit for that reply re: Glock issues and the YouTube deal to Tower, but it came from you. Not that it matters, but I like to give credit where credit is due. Either way, both have been really helpful to me.

Phantom: what kinda packaging required to take a handgun on a plane? Seems like it would be easier to ship, especially since I have access to the shipping industry by trade.

(i.e. locking gun cases, etc.) Don't wanna wind up in some back room being harrassed by the airport security people...

[Marswolf]

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1666.shtm has info on packing your guns as luggage on a plane. Note that different airlines may have additional restrictions. You would need to contact them.

It really isn't that hard to transport a gun in your luggage. You do have to have a lockable hard case.

[Guest Phantom6]

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1666.shtm has info on packing your guns as luggage on a plane. Note that different airlines may have additional restrictions. You would need to contact them.

It really isn't that hard to transport a gun in your luggage. You do have to have a lockable hard case.

Ditto.

The most important aspect of this method is that neither the federal, state or the local government has a record of the firearms that you have in your posession unless you filled out a form 4473 when you bought it and they demand it from the seller. Not a major problem today but if the organizations currently active in Kalifornia and listed below have their way it could be big one in the future.

--------------------------

Bay Area Junk Gun Control

California Wellness Foundation

Californians for Responsible Gun Laws

Contra Costa Coalition to Prevent Gun Violence

Orange County Citizens for the Prevention of Gun Violence

Pacific Center for Violence Prevention

Women Against Gun Violence

Los Angeles Teens On Target/Youth Alive

------------------

For a listing of noted anti-gun groups, organizations and people across each state and the U.S., go to http://www.pinkpistols.org/antigun.html

NOTE: These folks "wear berets but are not French", (to twist a borrowed a phrase from Marswolf) but they have sure done their research.

Speaking of Internet locations I would submit that any gun owner should point their browser to a great blog called Of Arms and the Law . It is written by an attorney by the name of David Hardy who has five books and thirteen law review articles in print. One of his articles has been even been cited by not only the U.S. Supreme Court and 11 of the 13 U.S. Circuit Courts of Appeals (obviously the 9th which is seated in Kalifornia is not one of them) as a basis for decisions handed down. He has also written and released a documentary film on the history of the right to bear arms entitled "In Search of the Second Amendment." which was released earlier this year.The film contains interviews with 12 professors of constitutional law as well as numerous other scholars and the finest legal minds in the country regarding the subject.

[Marswolf]

[Guest lurky1]

Looking deeper into the 1911 .45; pros/cons to the Browning/Colt M1911 vs the S&W model?

Also, reading article by Wiley Clapp/Guns & Ammo re: safety features and noticed the trigger function seems similar to the Glock system. Is this the case or am I reading that wrong?

Also, that grip safety helpful?

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ga_handguns/sw_1911_0513/#cont

[molonlabetn]

Looking deeper into the 1911 .45; pros/cons to the Browning/Colt M1911 vs the S&W model?

Also, reading article by Wiley Clapp/Guns & Ammo re: safety features and noticed the trigger function seems similar to the Glock system. Is this the case or am I reading that wrong?

Also, that grip safety helpful?

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ga_handguns/sw_1911_0513/#cont

There are many manufacturers who produce 1911s (or clones of 1911s, as it were...)

S&W is one of them, they make excellent 1911 pistols, as a matter of fact... generally, there are few functional differences between 1911s from different manufacturers, just that some are more refined, or use different materials/processes to manufacture them. Nearly all 1911s can exchange parts with one another.

The 1911 action is nothing at all like the Glock. The most obvious difference is the exposed, pivoting hammer on the 1911 which is held back under spring-tension by a sear, whereas the Glock has a linear, internal 'striker' which is held back under spring tension by a disconnecting trigger-bar. The method for firing the two guns is similar (rack slide to cock the action, and pull the trigger), making both of these weapons effectively single action from the point of view of the user... though, the methods used to accomplish it differ widely. If that is what Wiley meant in his article, then he is correct.

The combination of the manual and grip safeties on the 1911 effectively lock the pistol's action and slide when engaged, rendering the pistol very safe, even when loaded and cocked. The Glock, on the other hand, has no active safety... and the only passive safety with any user interface is on the trigger itself (so, anything which pulls the trigger will cause the weapon to discharge). The Glock is very safe in the event of droppage, due to a couple of internal, automatic safeties... most 1911s do not have these, relying on the manual and grip safety to keep the action from causing a discharge. Some 1911s (designated 'series 80') do incorporate an automatic firing-pin safety. These are found in most modern Colt 1911s, Kimber, and a few others). The grip safety is unobtrusive, and instinctive to use. In my opinion, it is an excellent design which prevents discharging the weapon unless the user in intentionally gripping it.