North Korea and Iran (re: Nuclear Weapons)

[Guest justme]

Dont worry Ill do your part while Im there.

I doubt that.

now where were those chemical weapons found again in Iraq? Seriously--I'd like to know.

[Daniel]

Maybe you missed the part where I said 2nd platoon. Not my platoon. Not my mission.

[Guest justme]

Maybe you missed the part where I said 2nd platoon. Not my platoon. Not my mission.

nope--did not miss that--but word tends to travel fast--something like that isn't going to be kept quiet for too long--people talk...I just asked if you knew where the chem weapons were supposedly found...

[Daniel]

They were told to forget it and that they were pesticides.

[Smith]

1. Saddam's WMD<br>have been found

2. August 29, 2005 on boortz.com

WMD FOUND IN IRAQ

The media is fond of reminding us that no Weapons of Mass Destruction were ever found in Iraq. This has been the clarion call of the Democrats for a couple of years now. However, did you know that WMD were found in Iraq? Not just a couple...but lots of them. A mother who lost her son in Iraq was interviewed on Fox News had this to say: "I have seen photos of entire fighter jets buried in the sand. I have seen pictures of entire caches of weapons that just my son's unit would uncover." I wonder why we never hear much about that one? Here's also a nice little list of what was found:

-500 tons...that's right...TONS...make that 1million pounds of yellow cake uranium. It was found at Saddam's nuclear weapons facility (yup...he had one of those too.)

-1.8 tons of partially enriched uranium found at the same place. You know, the stuff you need to make nukes.

-Hidden centrifuge parts and blueprints.

-Two dozen artillery shells loaded with Sarin and mustard gas.

Sounds like WMD to me! You may want to print this off and impress your friends with your knowledge.

3.Iraq and weapons of mass destruction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Chemical weapon attacks

Haij Umran mustard August 1983 fewer than 100 Iranian/Kurdish, Panjwin mustard October-November 1983 3,001 Iranian/Kurdish, Majnoon Island Mustard February-March 1984 2,500 Iranians al-Basrah Tabun March 1984 50-100 Iranians Hawizah Marsh Mustard & Tabun March 1985 3,000 Iranians al-Faw Mustard & Tabun February 1986 8,000 to 10,000 Iranians Um ar-Rasas Mustard December 1986 1,000s Iranians al-Basrah Mustard & Tabun April 1987 5,000 Iranians Sumar/Mehran Mustard & nerve agent October 1987 3,000 Iranians Halabjah Mustard & nerve agent March 1988 7,000s Kurdish/Iranian al-Faw Mustard & nerve agent April 1988 1,000s Iranians Fish Lake Mustard & nerve agent May 1988 100s or 1,000s Iranians Majnoon Islands Mustard & nerve agent June 1988 100s or 1,000s Iranians South-central border Mustard & nerve agent July 1988 100s or 1,000s Iranians an-Najaf -

Karbala area Nerve agent & CS March 1991 Shi’a casualties not known

[leroy]

Israel could easily turn the whole of the middle east into a barren waste--more so than it is now...the country we should be focusing on is the Chinese....

If the Israelis need to do that; ill be glad to leave that judgement to them and help em rebuild whatever they want to rebuild. The hebrews have been doing a great job of taking care of themselves from 1948 until now. It was David Ben Gurion, the first president of Israel who said: "now we have the guns" in his inagural speech in 1948 -- there's a great lesson in that statement alone -- there is a sure 'nuff need in Israel for gun ownership -- they mandate it. You need to remember that they are they guys that get attacked every time -- they don't seem to provoke attacks -- they just finish 'em.

RE: China: I completely agree. We should and are concentrating on China. WE introduced capitalism to this bunch and it's working pretty good. Lots of chinese stuff on our store shelves; and the shelves of the world. They are also buying up american debt that both sides of the political spectrum have run up. Aint it great; commies buying american debt. God bless 'em; even though they dont officially acknowledge Him.

The best way to 'focus on China" is to keep trading with them. Capitalism works everywhere it's tried; and it is busy working in China.

The only place having touble with capitalism is here in the good ole USA. Oboma ran on the old "hope and change theme" --- codewords in my view for anti-capitalism and increased statism (note the new word--hehehe). The foolish, the childish, the communists, the lazy, the trashy, the unions, the "something for nothin crowd", the boschelvics, the communists, and the generally anti-Americans voted for socialism in this country. I hope this is a temporary condition. It is my belief that the producers of this country need to take the government back over so we can continue to trade with the Chinese. If we quit paying, they may get mad.

RE: THE OLD WMD STORY:

justme =="now where were those chemical weapons found again in Iraq? Seriously--I'd like to know. "

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel

Iraq had chemical weapons, aka wmds. 2nd platoon from my rifle company went into an underground storage room full of 55 gallon drums. Half were soon covered in hives and all had to leave the place puking their guts out. After a week or so they were allowed to return to the rest of the company.

This administration has not said anything like "gotta get those wmds".

Stop living in the past.

I have to agree with Daniel on this one. There were, in fact, WMD's in Iraq -- just ask the Kurds and the Iranians -- they found out how they worked (see Smith's post for details). It is my belief that US forces didn't find them all -- they moved out to the Bekka Valley; then somewhere else. It is also my belief that Iraq didn't use WMD in the second gulf war because they feared what might come next. I believe that fear was well founded. The fact is; we don't know everything that goes on, and we don't know about this.

RE: CULPABILITY FOR SELLING STUFF TO OTHERS WHO USE IT FOR BAD THINGS. It is an undisputed fact that the Iraqi's and the Iranians have bought both weapons and feed materials from other countries, including the good ole USA. We can quibble about the morality (and even wisdom) of doing such things; but thats exactly what it is -- a mere quibble-- nothing else. This arguement is a "red herring" (it smells). Everything they bought has a legitimate commercial or humanitarian use. The end user is responsible for the end use; not the seller. This is particularly true for the feed materials for chemical and biological agents (they have legitimate uses in agriculture and medicine; the bane of all third world countries). Withholding of these type items can and has been used as a propaganda tool to say that the witholders are monsters and are oppressing and punishing the poor impoverished buyers. We can quibble about nuclear type parts, equipment, and materials -- they got only one or two uses. One legitimate and the other horriffic.

Food for thought,

LEROY

[leroy]

Great history lesson. Thanks for sharing:

justme quote: "There has not been in invasion by Iran into what we call Palestine (by the way, the name "Palestine" is not the name of this region from antiquity -- it is Israel. The Romans (a great bunch, themselves) destroyed Israel in AD70 and renamed Israel "Palestine". They were mad at those pesky Jews for crimes against Rome, decimated them, and finished them as a nation. The name "Palestine" is used many times as a convenient "alternate state name" for those who dont like those pesky jews to legitimize the idea that somehow the jews stole the miserable spot of land they were ceded in 1948 from the pore ole Palestinians) since about 614 A.D and no such Persian invasion has been carried out into Palestine by Persia (Iran) in the modern 20th century. Iran has never preemptively attacked Israel, and indeed--Persian kings who have invaded ancient Palestine in ancient times have showed great mercy to those living in the cities that are located in what we call Israel today...Cyrus is hailed as a great liberator, as is Darius the Mede. ..... However, the Turks (Ottomans), Byzantines-- the Arabs, the Crusaders under the French, and Napoleon, Egypt, Jordan, Syria--all invaded Palestine...and Iraq, Egypt and Syria all invaded "Israel" three separate times between 1948-1973, and in the first two wars Jordan, and a number of other "moderate" Arab countries helped...but Iran was not among them during these invasions..."

You may want to consider this piece of info in your Iran history, Picked it up from a quick search of Iran history-- did a quick Google search:

I remember this very well. The Iran you are talking about in your above dissertation aint the present Iran. that is out there now:

CA 1979: "...Khomeini served as leader of the revolution or as Supreme Leader of Iran from 1979 to his death on June 3, 1989 ( its a grea thing when these monsters go to meet Allah!! -- if there is one). This era was dominated by the consolidation of the revolution into a theocratic republic under Khomeini, and by the costly and bloody war with Iraq.

The consolidation lasted until 1982-3),[107][108] as Iran coped with the damage to its economy, military, and apparatus of government, and protests and uprisings by secularists, leftists, and more traditional Muslims — formerly ally revolutionaries but now rivals — were effectively suppressed. In the summer of 1979 a new constitution giving Khomeini a powerful post as guardian jurist Supreme Leader[109] and a clerical Council of Guardians power over legislation and elections, was drawn up by an Assembly of Experts for Constitution. The new constitution was approved by referendum in December 1979. -- Wikapedia stuff

Khomeini turned Iran from a prosperous, secular, progressive country into a religious totalitarian dictatorship in a matter of a few years. Thats the Iran you need to be worried about; not the "Persia" of bible times. Thats the government that Adidiawhachmacallit represents, as well as the Grand Whoever. Times change, so to governments.

You might want to consider that Hezbolla is a proxy of Iran and they have been fighting both the Hebrews and the USA; they aint been doing too good with the fight -- but they are fighting.

Food for thought,

LEROY

[Guest SUNTZU]

...Adidiawhachmacallit ...

I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

[spookboy]

If they want one lets send them one.

Couldn't have put it better myself!

[DaveTN]

I have always thought that it was pretty ridiculous that we (or the United Nations) think they get to decide who can have nukes and who can’t. A lot of countries have them and we are the only ones that have ever used them.

They are a deterrent to large countries invading your small county.

I’m more worried about Israel launching a nuke than I am North Korea or Iran.

[nightrunner]

exactly, when israel decides to do something, they do it BIG, i dont mean big like texas, i mean big like level a continent just to show they can

[Smith]

I have always thought that it was pretty ridiculous that we (or the United Nations) think they get to decide who can have nukes and who can’t. A lot of countries have them and we are the only ones that have ever used them.

They are a deterrent to large countries invading your small county.

I’m more worried about Israel launching a nuke than I am North Korea or Iran.

exactly, when israel decides to do something, they do it BIG, i dont mean big like texas, i mean big like level a continent just to show they can

Based on what? The 50+ years of restraint in the face of out right hostilities? Oh, that every country were so measured.

[hkusp40cal]

I am surprised that no one has mentioned that is US/UN are still in theory at war with N. Korea since there was never a peace treaty signed, just an armistice agreement (S. Korea did not even sign that). N. Korea also recently stated (May 27th) they no longer consider themselves bound by that cease-fire agreement.

[DaveTN]

Based on what? The 50+ years of restraint in the face of out right hostilities? Oh, that every country were so measured.

Based on facts. In 1991 during the first Gulf war when Iraq fired scuds into Israel, Israel went on full scale nuclear alert and deployed nukes for launch. Had it not been for U.S. intervention it is believed they would have nuked Iraq.

[leroy]

Based on what? The 50+ years of restraint in the face of out right hostilities? Oh, that every country were so measured.

Great point. The character and worldview of those possessing nukes is much more important than anything else. You may want to take the time to read this post in the JPost this morning:

The myth of imperial Zionists | Op-Ed Contributors | Jerusalem Post

The jews generally dont start anything; they just finish it.

Kind Regards,

LEROY

[Smith]

Based on facts. In 1991 during the first Gulf war when Iraq fired scuds into Israel, Israel went on full scale nuclear alert and deployed nukes for launch. Had it not been for U.S. intervention it is believed they would have nuked Iraq.

One instance in the face of a WMD threat at the outbreak of war? Yeah, that was so over the top. Iraq had threatened WMD's and conversely had sent scuds towards Israel. To be on alert is routine in that instance. Come on DaveTN you know better than that.

If I'm not mistaken it was Isreal that sent a lone plane in to bomb Iraq's nuclear facility to avoid an upscale war prior to 1991. I might mention that it was a success. Israel has been more than accomodating in avoiding conflict. However, if some one insist they TCB.

[leroy]

One instance in the face of a WMD threat at the outbreak of war? Yeah, that was so over the top. Iraq had threatened WMD's and conversely had sent scuds towards Israel. To be on alert is routine in that instance. Come on DaveTN you know better than that.

I gotta say i don't believe it was over the top. It was a prudent action and a message to the Iraqi's (and others) not to send WMD's into Israel. The US does this all the time; remember all the DEFCON stuff during the Cuban Missile crisis (and others we probably dont know about)?

Israel is a small nation surrounded by folks vowing their destruction. It aint a new threat, its been going on for the last 60 years. Think of it as tennessee being surrounded by nuts in alabama, georgia, and mississippi wanting to send missiles to your neighborhood loaded with poision gas and nerve agents to kill you and your family. There aint a home in Israel that doesn't have a chem/bio safe room and gas masks. Think of explaining that to you children or grand cildren in your own house -- it's heartbreaking. That's exactly the situation with Israel and her neighbors. Israel is 50 miles wide and about 300 miles long -- pretty small place.

I aint trying to beat you up about this; Im trying to get you to think thru it.

If I'm not mistaken it was Isreal that sent a lone plane in to bomb Iraq's nuclear facility to avoid an upscale war prior to 1991. I might mention that it was a success. Israel has been more than accomodating in avoiding conflict. However, if some one insist they TCB.

This is exactly right. Israel removed a threat and made us and them safer -- they were vilified for it by the UN and some in this country -- they didn't care, they simply did what they thought was right. We should take a lesson from them. For the last 50 years we have started out right (when we started); then a bunch of third basers, career polititians, and polititian wanna bees in high position in the military (like Colin Powell), and apologists take over. Just about the time our military has their collective boot on the neck of our enemies; the aforementioned idiots stops our military from finishing what should have been done in the first place. We are cursed with indecision because many in our government have no sense of right and wrong; they are just a bunch of trashy polititians.

We in this country have no idea of what those in Israel put up with every day. We may someday, if we don't wake up; but that's another story. The only real ally we have in the middle east is Israel.

LEROY

[G27]

I am surprised that no one has mentioned that is US/UN are still in theory at war with N. Korea since there was never a peace treaty signed, just an armistice agreement (S. Korea did not even sign that). N. Korea also recently stated (May 27th) they no longer consider themselves bound by that cease-fire agreement.

Err, the US never declared war on North Korea...

[Guest mustangdave]

We in this country have no idea of what those in Israel put up with every day. We may someday, if we don't wake up; but that's another story. The only real ally we have in the middle east is Israel.

LEROY....this has been a great thread to read...this parting statement from Leroy sums it up pretty good to. I've been to Israel...I've seen whats what....and they don't ***** foot around...the Israeli's mean business.

Now back to the GITMO thread...I'm sure KevinM has some kind words for me there.

[Guest 44M]

this mess going on in Iran right now, may be a good time for us to get in and take care of business...?

db

[Smith]

this mess going on in Iran right now, may be a good time for us to get in and take care of business...?

db

Eh, the other guy is about the same. I do think it buys time which is always a good thing. I also think the destabilization of the current structure is also a good thing. As justme pointed out Iran had been historically fairly civil - until the "revolution". Since then they have quietly been one of the largest funders of weapons and money to Hesbollah, terroist, etc. against Israel and the world. A little instability might be a good thing if it allows the Iranian people to get back on the good track.

[TGO David]

Dont worry Ill do your part while Im there.

Possibly one of the best comments made in this thread yet.

[Guest HexHead]

this mess going on in Iran right now, may be a good time for us to get in and take care of business...?

db

Think we can get the Shah's son to move from Beverly Hills and take over?

[Guest mustangdave]

Think we can get the Shah's son to move from Beverly Hills and take over?

Doubt it...seriously

[Guest justme]

this mess going on in Iran right now, may be a good time for us to get in and take care of business...?

db

of course--what better way to unite a country than to invade it and become an occupying enemy for the Iranians to focus their attention on....they will almost immediately stop fighting each other and start fighting us....