Pentagon orders soldier fired for challenging prez

[Guest Muttling]

Are you, or have you been in the service?

I spent 15 years as a environmental clean up contractor. Most of 2004 was in Iraq at ASP Buckmaster.

[Guest redbarron06]

I spent 15 years as a environmental clean up contractor. Most of 2004 was in Iraq at ASP Buckmaster.

I got 20 years between AD and NG and I am not an expert on the military. Spending less than one year in a combat zone and a total of 15 as a contractor makes you an expert on the militray?

Before you go off chastizing the men and women that get up every morning and put this uniform on, try wearing it for a while. You have no clue what the requirements of the UCMJ are on those in the military. Did the story mention that he broke any law? NO! How about a certain article of the UCMJ? NO again.

And buy the way that is a certificate of live birth not a birth certificate. Check Hawaii law. There is a difference. A CLB can be given for a child born of a US parent when the child is born abroad. A CLB can not be used in Hawaii to claim status as a native Hawaiian. Besides, what was the date on that? 2007? I am pretty sure he was born before that. Where is the original? Why has BHO spent almost 1 million dollars hiding it? What does he have to hide? Get me the right person and I can by a Hawaii CLB also.

[Guest canynracer]

I spent 15 years as a environmental clean up contractor. Most of 2004 was in Iraq at ASP Buckmaster.

I guess I am still confused on what makes you the authority, and what gives you the balls to speak up against anyone that has dedicated their time/life in the branch of service defending this country.

As others stated, he has a right to question his orders, and if you dont think he does, god help us all when the order comes for them to come make us to turn in all our crap so the government can tell us when to poop, wake, and eat.

[E4 No More]

Do your due diligence instead of believing the spew.

Birth Certificate:

Certification signature on the birth certificate:

Embosses seal on the birth certificate:

City where the baby was born on the birth certificate:

Link to FactCheck.org (the very web site that Dick Chenney quoted in a couple of debates years ago) stating that they have personally examined the original birth certificate.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

Time to do the research and post a response, less than 5 minutes. Explain to me again how I don't know what I'm talking about and how the punk's actions aren't impacting unit readiness.

Bust him down and give him a dishonorable.

Show pictures of the entire thing with his name on it; not bits and pieces of what could be several BC's.

[Guest canynracer]

Do your due diligence instead of believing the spew.

Birth Certificate:

Certification signature on the birth certificate:

.

two things...the title of the doc is "Certification of Live Birth"

In Hawaii...that is different that a Certificate of live birth, or birth certificate.

A "Certification of Live Birth" is a short form birth certificate. The information included in the document may differ from state to state. A "Certification of Live Birth" from Hawaii will include the name and sex of the person, date of birth, hour of birth, island of birth, county of birth, mother's maiden name, mother's race, father's name, father's race, date accepted by registrar, a certificate number and seal. The seal may be different depending on the year it was printed.

A Birth Certificate, or "Certificate of Live Birth," is the long form birth certificate and contains more detailed information, including signatures of doctor(s), witnesses, vital statistics (length and weight), etc.

According to the Department of Hawaiian Homelands:

"In order to process your application (to verify that you are a genuine native Hawaiian), DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL."

that other thing...I did 3 min of "research" and came up with this site.

Atlas Shrugs: ATLAS EXCLUSIVE: FINAL REPORT ON OBAMA BIRTH CERTIFICATE FORGERY CHANGE YOU CAN BELIEVE IN

[Guest Muttling]

Did they also plan this so far in advance that they planted the birth announcements in the news papers decades ago?

I know it's hard to get over conspiracy theories that you really WANT to believe in. Just look at all the moon landing disbelievers and the ones claiming GW was behind the 9/11 attacks. It silliness that won't go away. The dude is an American, get over it.

Edited July 22, 2009 by Muttling

[Guest Muttling]

I guess I am still confused on what makes you the authority, and what gives you the balls to speak up against anyone that has dedicated their time/life in the branch of service defending this country.

It's called America and Freedom of Speech. Even civilians are allowed to have an opinion.

As I said in a previous post, it is what I consider him to be and you have chosen to label me as thinking the expert.

God help us the day civilians don't have the courage to question the military and vice versa.

[Guest JavaGuy]

With regard to BHO being a native-born American, do you really think that Bill and Hillary wouldn't have bought front page ads in every paper across the entire country if they thought there was a credible chance that he wasn't? Those two, whatever else you might think of them, are both more than willing to slip a thin blade between the ribs of an opponent.

It would have been (what am I saying.. "still would be" is the proper term) the first thing they said in the morning and the last thing before going to bed to any reporter who would listen. They are both extremely competitive, they like to win, they don't like to lose and they both believed it was Hillary's turn.

[Daniel]

Starship Troopers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The people who say that you can not question someone who has decided to serve for part or all of their life remind me of the book Starship Troopers.

[Guest canynracer]

It's called America and Freedom of Speech. Even civilians are allowed to have an opinion.

As I said in a previous post, it is what I consider him to be and you have chosen to label me as thinking the expert.

God help us the day civilians don't have the courage to question the military and vice versa.

you didnt "question" the military, you convicted him

Edited July 22, 2009 by canynracer

[Guest canynracer]

Did they also plan this so far in advance that they planted the birth announcements in the news papers decades ago?

I know it's hard to get over conspiracy theories that you really WANT to believe in. Just look at all the moon landing disbelievers and the ones claiming GW was behind the 9/11 attacks. It silliness that won't go away. The dude is an American, get over it.

LOL...I am not doubting him being an american, I am "over it" funny thing was, I was never under it, near it, nor cared, I knew no matter what his status, he would be where hes at.

You are debating using one site as a fact..so I used one.

not a conspiracy theorist by any means, in fact, I am generally the one most against the tin foil.

You attacked another member about the "Reseach" you've done in 5 min, telling him he didnt have his facts, ...it took you 5 min to come up with a website to support what you believe, I took 3 to rebut.

[Guest Muttling]

LOL...I am not doubting him being an american, I am "over it" funny thing was, I was never under it, near it, nor cared, I knew no matter what his status, he would be where hes at.

You are debating using one site as a fact..so I used one.

not a conspiracy theorist by any means, in fact, I am generally the one most against the tin foil.

You attacked another member about the "Reseach" you've done in 5 min, telling him he didnt have his facts, ...it took you 5 min to come up with a website to support what you believe, I took 3 to rebut.

Say what?????

You're not doubting him being an American, but you claim his birth certificate is not legit and you link a site that says it's forged.

The very basis of the side of the argument you have taken and the basis for the soldier's claim that he shouldn't have to follow orders that trickle down from CIC Obama is that he is NOT a natural born citizen so he can't be president.

If you're not questioning his citizenship, what are you questioning??????

Edited July 23, 2009 by Muttling

[Guest Muttling]

you didnt "question" the military, you convicted him

THE MILITARY???? Does this one soldier speak for roughly 2 million service men and women? (I really hope not, we've got a number of criminals in Leavenworth who do NOT represent our military.)

Fortunately, I do not sit in judgement of him. If I were called to pass judgement on this ONE SOLDIER I would state that my feelings on the subject render me incapable of rendering an unbiased judgement and that I should not be included in the jury.

Edited July 23, 2009 by Muttling

[Guest redbarron06]

THE MILITARY???? Does this one soldier speak for roughly 2 million service men and women? (I really hope not, we've got a number of criminals in Leavenworth who do NOT represent our military.)

Fortunately, I do not sit in judgement of him. If I were called to pass judgement on this ONE SOLDIER I would state that my feelings on the subject render me incapable of rendering an unbiased judgement and that I should not be included in the jury.

So you think that a member of the military committed a crime because he spoke his mind? Well when we start the thought police you can be the chief. This man committed no crime, he simply questioned the legality of an order for the benifit of himself and his men.

Remimber Katrina? Now you want to talk about high crimes, lets start with the adjudant general of LA. He knowling gave order for members of the military to assist in the execution illegal orders, immoral orders and violate the 2 and 4th ammendments. Lets start with charging him and every single military member that was involved at any level with the confiscation of privatly owned weapons with violation of oath, conduct unbecoming and then we can move into felony offences. Maybe a military person down should have brought up the question of "are these orders legal?". If they had asked, then the only conclusion they could have come to was telling the chief of police that he is "violating the constitution and if they see his officers going door to door taking weapons from civilans we will shoot the officers." That is what the oath required and that is what they should have done. That was a crime any way you look at it. This man broke no law or article of the UCMJ. Even if he had the govt had no right to force his boss to fire him in his private job.

And, for the record when the discharge him from the military he looses his legal standing in the law suit. This is the reason that so far most of the law suits have been shut down. Personally I dont think he was born somewhere else, I think the BC sais that he is "white" and that is why he dont want it released and has spent almost a million dollars to hide. He claims 16% of his ethnic make up because it got him more than half of his votes. A document that confirms that he is not the race he has claimed for his political advantage would make his polls take a dive especailly in the ethnic makup that he falsly claims.

[Guest 3pugguy]

Citizens don't question Obama he will crush you...

The Department of Defense has allegedly compelled a private employer to fire a U.S. Army Reserve major from his civilian job after he had his military deployment orders revoked for arguing he should not be required to serve under a president who has not proven his eligibility for office.

According to the CEO of Simtech Inc., a private company contracted by the Defense Security Services, an agency of the Department of Defense, the federal government has compelled the termination of Maj. Stefan Frederick Cook.

Pentagon orders soldier fired for challenging prez

Now this wasn't his government job it was his civilian job....You sheeple be prepared he will crush your life too.

So, let's see:

1. Obama is OUR President, like him or hate him. He was lawfully elected and we will have another election is just over three years to either keep or replace him.

2. Many brave men and women serve in our military reserve and have gone bravely and without drama into the fray - some have not come home or have returned badly hurt or maimed.

3. This "Major" decides he is above the law and that he can decide to disobey an order, against the oath he took when he accepted his commission.

So in my old, retired Navy guy's eyes, kick his ass all the way to the curb - and give him a less than honorable discharge while we're at it.

We don't have the luxury in the military of doing this kind of tinfoil hat wearing shennigans and it flies in the face of good order and discipline. And since his employer is getting paid with my tax dollars, good for the Pentagon.

My two cents...

[Guest 3pugguy]

I am not surprised. My son's political science professor (who is amazingly not a raging liberal) told them O and Nancy Pelosey were going to try to bring back the sedition act.

Glenn

What evidence does your "son's political science professor" have? Read it on a blog somewhere or maybe he went into the wilderness and had a vision (or maybe the Major sent him a text!!!!)

Jeez Louise...I should buy stock in tin foil for all the hats that need to be made.

[Guest 3pugguy]

Agree wiht you Muttling...

Another tinfoil hat wearing loon in my (not on this issue humble) opinion.

During Gulf War 1, I saw and heard some doozies from Navy reserve guys and gals who were so scared they had to go to active duty, this guy is taking the cake.

I find it OFFENSIVE what this yahoo did, given how many of our fellow Tennesseans have disrupted their lives (and lost their lives or been severly injured) by answering the call to duty. Strike that, it DISGUSTS me, what this guy did.

Edited July 23, 2009 by 3pugguy
ddd

[TripleDigitRide]

Remimber Katrina? Now you want to talk about high crimes, lets start with the adjudant general of LA. He knowling gave order for members of the military to assist in the execution illegal orders, immoral orders and violate the 2 and 4th ammendments.

That should scare the s**t out of every American man, woman, and child.

If our Military men and women are willing to break the law and toss aside the Constitution because they were givin orders, we are in serious trouble. But I guess they would be breaking the law by not following the orders?

Edited July 23, 2009 by TripleDigitRide

[Guest 3pugguy]

And again, you know not of what you speak. Birth Certificates issued by the state are CERTIFIED COPIES; what was provided was not. They also show where the baby was born. If Obama has nothing to hide, why is it that the Dummycrat Governor of Hawaii has issued orders to not release his birth certificate to anyone, and all official statements made to date DO NOT indicate that Obama was born in Hawaii?

You know...nevermind. I don't have the patience to argue with a wall soaked in today.

with respect, you might be careful of who is accusing whom of drinking cool aid over this issue

Did you ever see George Bush's (either one of them) BC? How about Clinton? Or McCain as a candidate? Didn't think so...

This is beyond ridiculous, given the issues facing our country, that such malarky even takes up our time!!!

President Obama will, in my opinion, be a one term wonder. The gloss is already starting to dull somewhat and when the crazy spending starts to clear up and tax payers, even those on the left/far left, will soon sing a different tune. And those in the middle, many of whom helped Obama, will really become disillusioned.

Of course, this presupposes the fact the Republicans can field a legitimate candidate (and God save us from Sarah Palin wrecking the party or ticket again with her fringe issue appeal).

My three cents worth and I mean no personal attack on you - tough to keep the right tone on a dang discussion board, but mean this as discussion not ugliness (enough of that going around, don't want it with a fellow gun enthusiast).

[Guest 3pugguy]

How do you figure he was a deserter? His orders were cancelled. The stary never said that he told them he was not going to go only that he had challened the legality of the order. After that he was fired from his civilian job from a private contractor. This is BS. Now I am not buying into all of teh BHO birth certificate thing. I have different reasons to belive that he will not come out with it but that is another story for another thread. Questioning the legality of an order is what we are all supposed to do. He did it and is now unemployeed because of it. Now unless JAG determinies that he made those statments on duty or in uniform they can not touch him. Off duty and on his own time (not representing the govt in uniform) he is entitled to speak his mind just like the rest of us.

Since he has a commission, even a reservist/guardsman, would not the same prohibition against speech against members of congress or the National Command Authority be the same (could be wrong, due the reserve status - I frequently am).

But good on 'em for canning his sorry ass - stinkin' slacker. Put his money where his mouth is; if he is not wanting to go to war cause of his political views, then let's extend that: he is working for DOD as civilian contrator so he is doing work defined by the CIC.

Actions have consequences, which this guy will find out it seems.

[Guest 3pugguy]

Are you, or have you been in the service?

have you?

[Guest 3pugguy]

Starship Troopers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The people who say that you can not question someone who has decided to serve for part or all of their life remind me of the book Starship Troopers.

Seems to me the fact of service or not should have no bearing on the fact, sure enough. Kind of like we all, provided we meet the other criteria, have the right to vote (too bad some don't - easier to sit and bitch on a discussion board with a bunch of other folks, LOL).

Anyway, good point. Those writing on either side should not question someone for/against or making points/statements about the Major (why I asked Canyracer of his status once he questioned another; as Joey on Friends would say, " it's a moo point").

[Guest redbarron06]

Since he has a commission, even a reservist/guardsman, would not the same prohibition against speech against members of congress or the National Command Authority be the same (could be wrong, due the reserve status - I frequently am).

But good on 'em for canning his sorry ass - stinkin' slacker. Put his money where his mouth is; if he is not wanting to go to war cause of his political views, then let's extend that: he is working for DOD as civilian contrator so he is doing work defined by the CIC.

Actions have consequences, which this guy will find out it seems.

As long as we do not run for any public office, and do not appear IN UNIFORM or as an official represenitive of the govt or military, endorse violence or overthrow of the federal govt. We are allowed to demostrate, attend protests, and file law suits against any person or persons in the govt that we feel fit. We can not however file against the govt as an entitiy. I should also say that we are not allowed to use any govt equipment such as phone, computers, cells to try to endorse any political party, canidate, or movement.

And once again I ask the question that nobody has been able to answer, What crime did he commit? He did not refuse orders, he did not fail to show for movement. He asked a question that millions of Americans are asking. I have stated my stance on why the BC is being covered up. Maybe he believes he was not born here and has not seen the evidence to change his mind. That does not matter. Before you can follow an order you must ask your self 1. Is it legal, 2. is it moral, 3. is it unjust? if the answer to any of these is NO then you do not have to follow that order, end of story. Now who decides what your morals are? Trying to dictate to him what his morals are is no different that trying to tell him what he has to think.

[Guest redbarron06]

That should scare the s**t out of every American man, woman, and child.

If our Military men and women are willing to break the law and toss aside the Constitution because they were givin orders, we are in serious trouble. But I guess they would be breaking the law by not following the orders?

You do not have to obey illegal orders. Any order to violate constitutional rights is an illegal order. I am in the guard and have spoken with several folks in many units and they have all said there is no way they are going to go door to door and take weapons from people in the event of an emergency. They all felt that it was an illegal order and it was a suicide mission.

[TripleDigitRide]

You do not have to obey illegal orders. Any order to violate constitutional rights is an illegal order. I am in the guard and have spoken with several folks in many units and they have all said there is no way they are going to go door to door and take weapons from people in the event of an emergency. They all felt that it was an illegal order and it was a suicide mission.

Yea, I've never been in the Military, so I wasn't sure how all that worked.

What happens if you refuse to follow an order that you feel is unconstitutional, but your superiors feel as if it's within their rights/powers?