Shotty for casual clay shooting.

[monkeylizard]

I had a great time yesterday at the Nashville Gun Club on the sporting clays course. It was my second time shooting and I really like it. I need to pick up a gun of my own if I'm going to keep doing this. I was using someone else's Beretta Silver Pigeon. I don't see myself ever hunting or shooting clays competitively or keeping score. Just going out a few times a year and shooting with friends for the fun of it. I had been looking at the Beretta 3901 semi-auto, but it seems like everyone I saw yesterday was using an O/U.

Is CZ-USA as big of a sleeper brand in shottys as it is in handguns or would I be better served to spend more on a Browning, Beretta, etc.? CZ 12ga. O/U's are running in the $500-$1000 range, depending on model. I'd like to stay in the $500-$750 range.

[Mike]

CZ makes some wonderful shotguns. Very nice quality.

Mike

[rbishop]

You should be able to find a very nice used Beretta that would work for that application for $1,000.00 or so.

[monkeylizard]

Thanks guys. Is there a reason besides appearances to go for a higher end gun like a used Beretta instead of a new CZ for what I'm looking to do with it? Are those multi-thousand dollar Italian jobs really that much better than a CZ, or a Stoeger? Keep in mind that I don't plan to get competitive with this. Just shooting for fun.

I do think I want to stick with O/U. They look a lot easier to clean, and with fewer parts, should last longer, right?

Edited November 8, 2010 by monkeylizard

[Hozzie]

If you want to shoot some skeet and enjoy it, I would personally recommend a 20 gauge for starters. Less recoil and will still hit whatever you need. I have lots of each, and rarely get out a 12 gauge for trap or skeet. If I was going to only buy a 12 gauge for that purpose, it would be a semi-auto. That will also help reduce felt recoil and make shooting much more enjoyable.

As far as guns, if you want an over/under - look for a good used Ruger Red Label. Can be found for $700-$900 if you look. Don't pay over $900, and 12's are worth less than 20's. In a semi-auto, you can find a Remington 1100 12 or 20 any day for $450-650 depending on the condition of the gun (an in my option are the best value out there). I also personally really like Beretta's and you can find an older AL390 for that $500-$650 range.

There are a lot of choices, and yes Brownings are nice (I have a few), but in your price range there isn't much from them.

My two cents.

Edited November 8, 2010 by Hozzie

[monkeylizard]

Thanks Hozzie. What price range should I be looking in to get something good for my purposes? I can wait and save. In the old thread, I was keeping it <$500. I've now grown out to around the $800 mark. I can keep waiting and saving if it means I'll end up with something much better in the end. I just dont want to wait for years to finally have enough for a new Beretta Golden Super Deluxe Diamond Crow with a fringe on top, or whatever they name their latest.

I swear some of these shotgun makers took a play from the Chinese restaurant naming book. Take about 6 terms and randomly jumble them together.

Edited November 8, 2010 by monkeylizard

[msnow]

I'm a hobby shooter with a limited budget and I purchased a used Charles Daly 12 semi last fall and used it until last spring when I purchased a new Benelli Vinci. I have had good luck with both. The CD was around $200, the company has gone out of business but you can still find them. No problems with it. I purchased the Benelli and have been very happy with it. Very easy to clean and great to shoot (my wife has tried to claim it a few times). They are closer to $1200. I have seen alot of Remington 1100's used too. I hope that helps some.

Matt

[Hozzie]

If you want an O/U to fit in, you are in the ballpark for a nice Ruger Red Label if you look. People will ask $1000 - $1100, but I wouldn't go above $900. I would also highly recommend a 20 Gauge if you go that route. Will be nicer to shoot, and will hold a better value longer term in my opinion.

If you want just a really nice, overall gun to use for Skeet, potentially some hunting, and really anything else, I would go for the Remington 1100. You can easily find one for $450-$600 and they will shoot well. Either 12 or 20 would be fine in that gun, plus you would save a little cash. Is it a competition gun, no, but for what you are wanting to do, it would be fine. In the end, it doesn't matter what gun it is, it's how you shoot it.

Edited November 8, 2010 by Hozzie

[monkeylizard]

Thanks guys. That's exactly what I was looking for. I hadn't considered a 20 ga., but that may be a good option. It would let my wife shoot too. She said she'd like to try it, and I think she'd like it, but I think a 12 ga is too much for her. On second thought....the bruise on my shoulder says 20 ga. is a good idea....

[Guest buttonhook]

the main advantage of the O/u is the ablity to use two different chokes on the same gun at the same time. so you have a long range shot choke and a close shot choke

[Warbird]

Sporting clays puts a lot of rounds down a barrel. To answer your question, yes there is that much difference in strength and durability of the high end O/U guns. I have a number of hunting O/U and several shoot nice, but would not hold up to the abuse of sporting clays.

I recommend sticking with a 12 gauge. You get more shot downrange and every bit helps. Remember, the best shooters shoot smaller gauges as a greater challenge in side events. The more you shoot the less the recoil will be noticeable. There are things you can do to make the recoil less as well. One of the reasons the higher end shotguns are so valuable to a sporting clays shooter is because they are heavier. A heavy shotgun recoils less. Sporting clays is the most fun IMO of all of the shotgun sports. It is also much different in its requirements than a skeet or trap gun. A gun that is good for skeet and trap is not necessarily good for sporting clays.

I think I would first recommend a semi-auto. You can by a used Beretta or Remington 1100 for a decent amount. There are things you can do to a semi-auto shotgun that will allow you to lessen the recoil as well. IF you PM me I will fill you in on those.

If you decide you really want an O/U, then I would stay away from the turkish guns like the CZ. They are good for hunting, not good for sporting clays.I would also stay far away from the Ruger Red Label. They are well known as some of the hardest kicking sob shotguns made. I own one and would never consider shooting the dang thing 100 times in a couple of hour period. One of my co-workers shoots one on the courses and complains every time he does.

If you want to get into an O/U find a good deal on an older used Beretta or Browning. You need to have someone help you know which would fit you better. A shotgun that is way off on pointing for you will be make for a very difficult learning curve. In sporting clays you do not aim. You should never see the barrels. You watch the clay and that shotgun should shoot where you are looking. Don't buy any old O/U that has fixed chokes.

If you want to get into a solid well made O/U shotgun that will last and is made very well for an incredible cost I would recommend Lanber. CDNN has some incredible deals on these right now. They are not well known in the states, but are the number one sold sporting gun in the shotgun crazy country of England. They are made in Spain. They are so well made and CDNN has such a great deal on them right now, I bought two. I shoot a Bereta 682 Gold E Sporting and I love that gun, but they are not cheap.

Edited November 9, 2010 by Warbird

[monkeylizard]

Thanks for all the input. After more research and procrastinating, I ordered a Lanber 2097 Sporting 12ga w/30" bbls from CDNN today. Depending on how fast the shipping and FFL paperwork happens, I'll have a report on it here in the next few weeks.

[monkeylizard]

I picked it up yesterday. It comes in a cardboard box, so no nice plastic carrying case. It includes a full set of 5 chokes (cylinder, skeet, modified, improved modified, and full). The chokes go all the way inside the barrels, nothing extends out the ends.

I saved $50 and ordered the "minor blems" version. The only blemish I can find is a small 2mm flaw in the bluing on the underside of the lower barrel towards the end of the barrel. It's not quite as dark as the rest of the bluing. The metal is a flat gray/silver color. The engraving is nice enough and appears to be laser etched. There are some flying clays on one side and a flying duck on the other. "Lanber" is on both sides and underneath. There is additional engraving in a few narrow bands around the rear of the barrels and on the bottom of the trigger guard. The guard is a darker metal that looks nice against the gray receiver. It's polished more than the main receiver. The wood has a nice even grain throughout. Nothing fancy, but it's not unsightly. The finish is a traditional walnut-ish brown with a semi-gloss sheen. It has a red fiber optic front sight and a gold-colored trigger. Overall, I think it's a nice looking gun. The engraving looks deep enough to withstand some polishing, so I may at some point disassemble it and polish the visible parts. I think that would improve the look.

I put it next to a Beretta Silver Pigeon II 28" that I've been shooting until now (no, it's not mine). There's no comparison in appearance. The Beretta has a high-gloss finish, polished metal, and tons more scroll work. Lots of little details like fancy rivets and little silver trim pieces instead of plain black pieces on the Lanber. The safety/barrel-selection switch is not as smooth on the Lanber, but it's not bad. I can't tell much about checkering, being a n00b and all, but I can't tell much difference in feel between the two. According to my high-tech mass measuring system (bathroom scale), they both weigh about 7.4 lbs. despite the barrel length difference. The locking latch is harder to push over than on the Beretta and isn't as smooth. The Beretta feels even throughout the movement. The Lanber has little resistance at first, then takes an extra push to send all the way to the right. Sort of like a trigger with a lot of travel. The Lanber feels like there is quite a bit of friction on that last bit of movement. I think it may mar the metal over time. I'll see if some well placed oil can help with that. The same with opening it up. I have to give it an extra bit of pressure to open it up all the way wheras the Beretta opens smoothly throughout. Again, I expect this to loosen a little with usage. The dimensions of the two seem to be about the same as far as length of stock, foregrip, and relative position of the trigger to the two. In other words, they both fit me about the same.

I took it out shooting today. The Beretta has a softer pad, but I didn't notice the Lanber having any more kick than the Beretta. The safety does NOT automatically come on after reloading and that's a good thing for me. It must have been a recent change at Lanber because lots of reviews on-line state that it does. The ejectors are strong. They had no problem sending the spent cases about 8 feet. In the end, I'm happy. It seems to be a good first O/U gun that helps me miss just as many birds as the Beretta does. Thanks for all the input, guys.

Edited February 28, 2011 by monkeylizard

[Warbird]

The Lanber safety does not come on automatically on sporting models, which is the same for most sporting guns. The Lanber safety does come on auto on their hunting models just like most makes. My Beretta hunting model does come on, my Beretta sporting model does not. To me the Lanber is one of the very best of the lower/mid O/U shotguns. In fact it is the only one I think worth buying. It is not as nice as any Beretta SP. Then again the basic Beretta Onyx is not nearly as nice as an SP either.

You can buy extended chokes for the Lanber. It doesn't come standard with them. Then again most base line Beretta and Browning models only come with the screw in chokes as well. I would put IC and Mod in there for now. Those are probably the most popular chokes and I leave mine in just like that for the vast vast majority of courses.

[RobertNashville]

I picked it up yesterday. It comes in a cardboard box, so no nice plastic carrying case. It includes a full set of 5 chokes (cylinder, skeet, modified, improved modified, and full). The chokes go all the way inside the barrels, nothing extends out the ends.

Anytime you want to meet at the Nashville range let me know and I'll try (emphasis on "try) to hit a few pigeons with you...I'm also a member of the Cedar City Gun Club near Lebanon and non-members are welcome any Saturday (I think you can come as my guest anytime but I'd have to check on that).

Also, if you are into cars at all, you may want to check out this thread: http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/events-gatherings/53857-2nd-annual-spring-cruise-clay-pigeon-shoot-april-23-2011-a.html

[monkeylizard]

The Lanber safety does not come on automatically on sporting models, which is the same for most sporting guns. The Lanber safety does come on auto on their hunting models just like most makes.

I read several reviews that specifically stated auto-safe was on for Lanber's sporting guns and that needed to change to be considered a real contender in sporting guns. Those could have been some old reviews. I was just confirming that the 2097 Sporting does NOT auto-safe on the current version, in case anyone else is considering one.

Thanks again for the advice and recommendation of Lanber. I couldn't be more pleased for the price. Unfortunately, I think I now have shotgun-fever. How many can I get before I need to seek professional counseling?

[Warbird]

I read several reviews that specifically stated auto-safe was on for Lanber's sporting guns and that needed to change to be considered a real contender in sporting guns. Those could have been some old reviews. I was just confirming that the 2097 Sporting does NOT auto-safe on the current version, in case anyone else is considering one.

Thanks again for the advice and recommendation of Lanber. I couldn't be more pleased for the price. Unfortunately, I think I now have shotgun-fever. How many can I get before I need to seek professional counseling?

It may well have been an old review. I don't recall shooting a sporting model where it did automatically come on, but they may well have at some point. For that matter they could have been modified as well. I can't remember if the European guns do come on auto. If so that may explain why they did. That particular model is very popular in Europe, especially England. I'm glad you are enjoying your shotgun. Yes it does tend to get into one's blood and in a few years you might well have a higher end gun and reserve that one for friends who want to try out the clays game with you.

[gregintenn]

I have a selection of shotguns, but the one most used to shoot informal clays is my wife's 20 guage Beretta AL391 Urika. It shoots great, and recoils little. My Browning double gets fondled a lot, but after a few rounds, it gets laid down in favor of the soft shooting Beretta.

[JoeBobOutfitters]

I shoot a Browning XT 32"/Beretta 391 for most of my clay shooting, depending on the game. I have a friend who has put a ton of rounds through a sporting Lanber and likes it, but seems to be a bit under the B guns in terms of fit and finish, but also less expensive, so it's to be expected somewhat. He's shot everything with it (and thousands of rounds down the tube) and holds his own, and it's never broke on him.It's hard to beat the 391's for semi autos, but the Lanber's seem to be a good bang for the buck in the sporting

[Guest tripp]

ruger red labels are nice

[Warbird]

I have a selection of shotguns, but the one most used to shoot informal clays is my wife's 20 gauge Beretta AL391 Urika. It shoots great, and recoils little. My Browning double gets fondled a lot, but after a few rounds, it gets laid down in favor of the soft shooting Beretta.

You might not believe it possible, but you can actually reduce the recoil of those guns even more. I shot a few 100 round course sessions a couple of months ago using a friend's 391 that had the Gracoil Mercury Recoil Reducer on it. This isn't the reduction buttstock pad, but a small mercury unit. It gives the gun a small bit of weight, which actually makes it swing smoother and even after 300 rounds in a day and my shooting shoulder felt great.

[JoeBobOutfitters]

I have a mercury weight on my forend and stock of my 391...adds ~18oz if i remember right. It tames the recoil down to almost nothing, regardless of load. Makes a soft shooting gun into a ***** cat.

[gregintenn]

You might not believe it possible, but you can actually reduce the recoil of those guns even more. I shot a few 100 round course sessions a couple of months ago using a friend's 391 that had the Gracoil Mercury Recoil Reducer on it. This isn't the reduction buttstock pad, but a small mercury unit. It gives the gun a small bit of weight, which actually makes it swing smoother and even after 300 rounds in a day and my shooting shoulder felt great.

SOunds like something worth looking into. My children shoot the gun a lot as well, and every little bit would help. Thanks.