Hozzie

They didn’t want my business before so I don’t feel the need to give it to them now. Plenty of places to buy things they have.

That's the problem. You think its because they took the right person out to dinner. The real reason is because they most likely have spent years working with many people involved, listened and understood the real needs, and put together a plan to show the customer (doesn't matter if it is private or public) that they will provide the product and service level desired. This isn't some magic process. It can happen that someone wins a deal after an RFP comes out, but it is much harder. The issue is not with the process as far as I am concerned. The bigger issue in my view is with the actual regulations that give preference to some companies over another just because they are minority owned. In many cases, they use extortion to win business, not ability or track record. There will never be a perfect process, but losers always have excuses and winners always have reasons.

No, by doing your job, building relationships. Contracts are about relationships. We all know that probably does happen in some cases, but not as much as many would like to think. Relationships are built over dinners, etc. but that is part of business. Even dinner is hard to do anymore. Losers like to think is was purely a money issue, but it never is. It's more about who decision makers have a better relationship with. More business is lost by not knowing who the real decisions makers are. It's not always the person on top.

Someone at SIG did their job. If an RFP comes out from the government and it isn't tilted towards you and you are in the business, you didn't do your job. Contracts are won and lost way before an RFP ever comes out.

You would be wrong in your definition. Per ATF: The term “Firearm” means: Any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; The frame or receiver of any such weapon; Any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or. Any destructive device. So those rounds are the same as any other ammo in the ATF's eyes. I don't think you were trying to imply getting around any laws, but everyone should know the legal definition. I have used them in a revolver, but that's about it. Since I bought suppressors I haven't used them at all.

Just buy a Smith M&P 15-22 and be done with it. Not worth the price difference to buy an upper, new bolt, and magazines. Just have two guns. Here you go...with free shipping. https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm/ID/168616

I couldn't agree more. I moved to my new place in May and couldn't be happier. More work to do, but I enjoy it. The fact that I can hunt on my own land if I want to is a big plus. I even like mowing so my only downside is the 25 min drive to Lowes/Home Depot when I need things. I can live with that.

It will fall under unlimited. MSRP is higher than $1000. There won’t be any Anschutz that would be accepted in Factory class.

I think the background and reasoning for this class in ARA specifically are not quite understood by most who have never shot ARA. ARA, PSL, and IR50/50 are all similar in that they are top associations with the best rimfire BR shooters in the country. It is intimidating to most who are not fully into it and two things happen when a new person goes to an ARA match. 1) They realize that the level (and therefore cost) of equipment is very high. It's nothing for most regular shooters to have at least 2 custom guns and all of the extra equipment to go with it running easily in the $6-$10k range for everything. This of course is nothing many want to or can do so they simply don't try it. It can absolutely be done cheaper, but many think it is an all or none scenario. It's a big leap for someone who even has the money to do it. This factory class is a way to get new shooters to try it and hopefully stick with it for a while and then decide if they want to work their way up. 2) For those that are willing to try, most completely underestimate how difficult this game is. They think they have a tack driver gun and are going to "compete". They quickly realize that regardless of how good of a gun they have, they typically score poorly to start and many give up before they even give it a chance. It's simply a fact that to score well, you need to shoot many times and start to learn HOW to shoot BR. One needs wind flags, a good rest, and PRACTICE. It takes the average BR Shooter 2-3 years to really understand how to Shoot Rimfire BR. Luckily for those that do stick around, they realize it is one of the best groups of people you will meet. Many come back for the people they meet as much as shooting. What does happen to those that stick around and start to understand the game is that they realize it's not about competing with the top guys at first, its about competing with yourself regardless of what gun or experience you have. When I ran some matches near me, we had guys showing up and shooting with all kinds of guns. Many came back and enjoyed shooting because they simply wanted to beat themselves. Others didn't because they couldn't accept shooting a 1300 when true BR guys were shooting 2200 or more. So back to Factory Class. Factory class is designed simply as an "entry level" for guys with lower cost factory guns to get their feet wet and "feel" like they are competing against similar guns. The challenge and reason most of the older factory rifles like the 40x's and 52's aren't included in the ARA Factory class is that on the right day in the right hands, they are capable of competing with a custom gun. They won't win often, but they can consistently shoot 1800-2200 on the current ARA Target. With the new "Factory" ARA target, even those guns would not be a fair competition. At some point, they would like to add a "vintage" class for these guns, but it will use the current ARA target, not the new factory target. As you can probably tell, I am quite into ARA and know most everyone in the game. I actually run the Rimfire Accuracy forum, so if you have any questions about ARA, just let me know. I would love to find another range in the Middle TN area to run matches. If you know of a range that may be interested in hosting matches, let me know. I am glad to help run them. I have all of the scoring software already. A couple of my customs. This is from the Triple Crown in Bristol. Next year it will be 9 days of shooting.

I am not sure he will be able to use the 82G in ARA Factory class yet. Some discussions still ongoing about what will make it. Sticking point right now is the term "currently in production". 40x's, 52's, etc won't be allowed in factory class. I think ultimately they will probably let the 82 in. It's not in the same league as a 40x or 52.

I would say the difference is simply due to the "performance" series above vs. the more general series discussed in the article.

Says Made in Italy on the left side or is that now more of a "designed" in Italy designation. I am not up on Beretta's or how they mark things. Is a sharp gun.

Yes, Black Leather.

Dave, I don’t think you are far from me. You can come to my place and shoot both and decide for yourself if you want. Mine is a Mark III hunter but close enough. My 41 is a 5.5” Heavy barrel. My Ruger has the Volquartsen hammer and sear. I think you will still choose the 41 if your shoot both. let me know if you are interested.

CLOSED