National Guard Armory carry

[AMSting]

I have a meeting at a National Guard armory. Does this fall under the government buildings no carry rule?

[RobertNashville]

Not sure which armory you are referring to but to the best of my knowledge, yes...no personal weapons allowed on the post; at least not without a lot of pee-arrangement...I do not carry at the HQ Houston Barracks in Nashville.

[Patton]

They are off limits and most probably are posted.

[AMSting]

I figured that was the case, but there are also gun shows at armories, so wasn't completely sure.

[TMF]

When I was in the guard we weren't allowed to have personal weapons at the armory as I understood the rules.... however, our Company 1SG owned a local gunshop so that rule was violated constantly. If I were you I'd leave it in the car.

[RobertNashville]

When I was in the guard we weren't allowed to have personal weapons at the armory as I understood the rules.... however, our Company 1SG owned a local gunshop so that rule was violated constantly. If I were you I'd leave it in the car.

My vehicle has been searched at the Houston Barracks...just saying.

[TMF]

My vehicle has been searched at the Houston Barracks...just saying.

Oh wow, I guess it's been a long time since my guard days. There was no entry control point or anything like that... just a local gym with an armory attached to it. I guess after 9/11 things may have changed a bit. I guess if you get the Comany Commander's approval (or whoever runs the NG Armory) it'd be fine.

[PC7]

I’ve wondered about this myself. The question is, are National Guard armories state or federal property? Either way, most are not posted. Houston Barracks is the exception as it is TN NG headquarters and is posted and gated/controlled access, as is the Smyrna TrainingSite . The other 99% of NG armories across the state are accessible to the public and I’ve never seen one that was posted. State property has to be posted to prohibit carry. The feds give money to the states for the NG and I think, not sure, that the armories are state property.

Edited January 27, 2012 by PC7

[Guest NashvegasMatt]

Unless the government no longer oversees the national guard....lol. If they didn't they might have to change their name.

[Jonnin]

I do not know, but the one here in chattanooga hosts gun shows regularly. Of course the shows do not allow loaded carry but you can walk around with the guns there & such. That is as much as I can offer -- but if the building were a gov't gun-free zone, I do not think this would happen? So it would be a posted building or not, in that case (?).

[Defender]

I go to the one in Smryna every now and again for work. I've never seen a sign. I saw a vehicle getting searched time before last, so I started leaving my EDC at home, just in case. Then last time, I asked the civilian guard at the gate and he said, no, guns not allowed, BUT, he also said we have a safe and you can check it in with us and retrieve it when you leave. Something to consider. I will probably try that when I go back next time.

[Fallguy]

Just to note Government Buildings and Property are NOT automatically off-limits by law. Of course Federal Law applies on Federal Property but in TN any local or state buildings and property must be posted just like private property to prohibit carry. One exception is a room where a judicial proceeding is taking place. This doesn't mean the whole courthouse or even the court room when a judicial proceeding is not taking place.

But it sounds as if this location is posted......

[JayC]

I have a meeting at a National Guard armory. Does this fall under the government buildings no carry rule?

If you're a guard member, you likely have a standing order not to carry weapons. If you're not a guard member, the site must be posted like any other state building. If it's not posted, then it would be legal to carry there. I've carried at a number of NG sites here and in other states without any problems.

[PC7]

If you're a guard member, you likely have a standing order not to carry weapons.

Where did you get this info from? I've never heard of such.

[leroy]

Noticed the posts about vehicle search at the NG armories. What is the basis for the search?

Thanks

leroy

[AMSting]

Just got back from the meeting. This was a public meeting, BTW. No postings anywhere, and I looked all over. There is a fence around the facility, but no guard at the entrance, although there were several NG personnel greeting us as we came through the doors. They looked happy to see people as they don't normally get a lot of visitors.

[RobertNashville]

Noticed the posts about vehicle search at the NG armories. What is the basis for the search?

Thanks

leroy

I don't think a basis is required except that you are "asking" to enter an a military installation - even years ago when I was active duty Navy I've had a vehicle searched entering base and I suspect things are "tighter" today. Now; of all the many, many, many times I've passed through the gates at the Houston Barracks I've only had my vehicle searched a handfull of times but it does happen.

Edited January 27, 2012 by RobertNashville

[leroy]

Thanks Robert. I spent a bunch of time workin for a company that did "random parking lot searches." The company had a list of "prohibited items"; among them guns, drugs, stolen stuff, etc. ..... The real story was that the searches were not random; they were based on suspictions and tips (...or even vendettas, im sure....). Submitting to searches was a "condition of employment", so there was no question as to whether they could do a search or not.

I completely forgot about the "military base" thing. It makes a bunch more sense there.

Thanks for takin the time to answer.

leroy

[DMark]

Noticed the posts about vehicle search at the NG armories. What is the basis for the search?

Its not really a "search" its a security "inspection."

You can refuse the inspection (aka a search). You also won't get in.

Also, most of the gate guards have no arrest authority, they are contract.

BUT..., don't try any BS if you want to get into a Regular Army post like Ft. Campbell, the MPs there have the full force of the National Security Act of 1950.

Edited January 28, 2012 by DMark

[leroy]

Thanks DMark and Robert, i understand.

Thanks again

leroy

[RobertNashville]

...Also, most of the gate guards have no arrest authority, they are contract.

I'm not sure thy can't detain you until a LEO would arrive; in any case, it wouldn't be them I would be worried about...it's my CG.

[DMark]

I'm not sure thy can't detain you until a LEO would arrive...

The question then would be what charges would apply that the LEO could arrest you for?

This has been a real problem since 9-11 and the use of contract security at military gates. The duty of the gate guards is to control entry, they do not have the powers of a LEO to hold, detail, arrest.

BUT WAIT - - - There is more!

If you do get inside the "wire" you and your vehicle can be searched via the National Security Act of 1947/1950/1953/2011. But again, what can be done if a weapon is found is in question because.....,

The actual wording of public law SECTION 1062, NATIONAL DEFENSE AUTHORIZATION ACT FOR FISCAL YEAR 2011(PUBLIC LAW 111-383) restricts commanders to only exercise this authority over military and paid DoD employees while on duty on a military installation. So even then it would be an overstep of authority for any arrest of an non military person on said post.

AND of course that raises all sort of state/federal issues. Seems that there is always some federal hook because most (but again not all) guard installations are built with federal tax dollars.

Yea, I know, hurts my head also.

Edited January 28, 2012 by DMark

[R1100R]

The Big deal is the contract guards wear the exact same color uniform as the DOD Police that have the same powers as a federal law enforcement officers. I have seen them at the gate also. Most entrances will list what items are contraband prior to entry. I know at FT Jackson all weapons brought on post must be registered at the Police Station. Even if you are just going to the range and leaving. No carry and packaged up. Every Post Commander is allowed to set his own policy base along certain guidelines.. This is for the Army. It has caused a big stink at the Town Hall Meetings.

[Fallguy]

The National Guard Armory in my town is just a single brick building that pretty much looks like any other office building. The only fence is around the vehicles other than that it pretty much open property. I never knew some where just like regular federal military instalations....

[RobertNashville]

The National Guard Armory in my town is just a single brick building that pretty much looks like any other office building. The only fence is around the vehicles other than that it pretty much open property. I never knew some where just like regular federal military instalations....

Well, I can't speak to all armory locations but the Houston Barracks is the headquarters and has multiple/varied buildings including the main command center for TEMA. I don't know that entry is as restrictive as, say, Fort Campbell but entry is definitely controlled.