New rules make it easier for ATF to seize guns without due process

[RobertNashville]

The Obama administration, apparently by executive decree, has enacted new rules that make it easier for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) to seize the guns of citizens without due process of law. A Washington Times report issued on Thursday provides the details...

LINK: https://www.examiner...out-due-process

[RobertNashville]

I guess we can all keep arguing about how unfriendly Romney would be to the Second Amendment bit of Obama has his way the arguments will all be academic by the time time January 2013 rolls around and certainly after another four years of the communist in chief.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Ooh, I knew I hadn't complained about the seizure and forfeiture laws enough, lately. No one else seems to mind, I guess.

Law enforcement agencies love civil forfeiture because it’s extremely lucrative. The Department of Justice’s Assets Forfeiture Fund had $2.8 billion in booty in 2011, according to a January audit. Seizing guns from purported criminals is nothing new; Justice destroyed or kept 11,355 guns last year, returning just 396 to innocent owners. The new ATF rule undoubtedly is designed to ramp up the gun-grabbing because, as the rule justification claims, “The nexus between drug trafficking and firearm violence is well established.â€

Read more: GHEI: ATF's latest gun grab - Washington Times http://www.washingto.../#ixzz268NfIvbl

Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

Oh! but this is just about drugs! Yeh, right. Keep thinking that.

You law enforcement types who like to bang on your chests about how upstanding and do no wrong

will never get a moment's sympathy from me if you collect a dime of this type of theft. This has nothing

to do with drugs.

Edited September 11, 2012 by 6.8 AR

[RobertNashville]

Well you know, when it comes to revenue, law enforcement departments aren't much different (read "greedy") than any other arm of government. One need look no further than "red light cameras"...I guess we all have "rights" until someone can figure out a way to tax it.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

But it can and needs to be stopped. The whole idea of confiscation goes against the grain of the Constitution.

I can't stand allowing for something like that, and never will. It's one of those, "what's next?" things that people

generalize away that ends up consuming us.

Actually, it's treasonous, within a large group of politicians.

Edited September 11, 2012 by 6.8 AR

[sigmtnman]

But, but it's ok as long as it doesn't affect me.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

But, but it's ok as long as it doesn't affect me.

My sentiment, exactly! And in your context!

[Jonnin]

it has already been going on for far too long, and this just makes it worse. If you go back and google people who were arrested then released but their weapons taken, many did not get their weapons back at all, others had to fight for ages to get them back, while some got them back right away. It seems to be random, but in far too many cases, they are not returned.

An example, as I understand it many people who had their guns taken during katrina STILL do not have them back.

[Chucktshoes]

This is nothing more than naked theft by the government. My other posts have expressed my views on defense of property. Draw what conclusions from that you wish.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

This is nothing more than naked theft by the government. My other posts have expressed my views on defense of property. Draw what conclusions from that you wish.

If I recall, we reflect each other's views.

There are those who will blindly let tyranny take a back seat in the name of what law enforcement do whatever they

wish. This is just a drop in the bucket. If you haven't read it, Dark Rivers of the Heart by Dean Koontz tells about a

government gone wild. Sometimes fiction mirrors reality. That stuff is and has been happening for quite a while,

even in our own neighborhood.

[Chucktshoes]

Good book as I remember it. Might have to reread it now that you bring it up. I went through a period of time where I read every book he wrote, though I haven't read anything of his in the last 5 or 6 years.

I think that where you and I find ourselves at loggerheads in the political discussions is that you may still have faith that the Republic can be reclaimed from the clenches of tyranny. I have none. I have no hope faith left in our current system, only hope in a future after collapse. In fact I would prefer to see it all burn to the ground sooner rather than later in the hopes that something worthwhile may surface for my daughter to raise her children in.

I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time, so that my children can live in peace.

Thomas Paine

Edited September 11, 2012 by Chucktshoes

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Me, too. That one will always stick out, though. Well, that one and False Memory. He's a good writer.

He mixes good and evil quite well.

Edited September 11, 2012 by 6.8 AR

[TripleDigitRide]

What about the lower-level government employees who so willingly enforce such laws against fellow U.S. citizens?

[jtmaze]

I think this one is set up to go after the preppers. Just an opinion. They are looking to take weapons from anyone stocking up on anything useful. Awe, you have a large supple of antibiotics you must have a problem take his guns.

JTM

Sent from my iPhone

[Chucktshoes]

What about the lower-level government employees who so willingly enforce such laws against fellow U.S. citizens?

At that point they are no longer agents of a lawful government. They have become tools of an ilegitmate tyranny. Let your conscience be your guide, and let your aim be true.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Good book as I remember it. Might have to reread it now that you bring it up. I went through a period of time where I read every book he wrote, though I haven't read anything of his in the last 5 or 6 years.

I think that where you and I find ourselves at loggerheads in the political discussions is that you may still have faith that the Republic can be reclaimed from the clenches of tyranny. I have none. I have no hope faith left in our current system, only hope in a future after collapse. In fact I would prefer to see it all burn to the ground sooner rather than later in the hopes that something worthwhile may surface for my daughter to raise her children in.

I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time, so that my children can live in peace.

Thomas Paine

As to our difference in ideas, I agree. I would rather try to save the Republic, if at all possible, but it may be that your

approach is the one that happens. I'm more prepared every day.

The trick is to have your daughter and my sons survive to have that opportunity. And that is if there is a chance in a

future setting. Too hard to tell what will be rebuilt.

[jtmaze]

Check out Hunger Games. Very good movie about post revolution USA. Some of the tech is a little far fetched but story is not out of line.

JTM

Sent from my iPhone

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I thought so, too.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RobertNashville]

Another book I recently found and am currently reading is called "Pulse"; can't really say how good or how realistic it is but it has at least been entertaining so far. Might be worth the read for those who like survival stories in a world where all the technology we depend on no longer works (not quite like the "Hunger Games" but...

[personDJ]

The nexus between drug trafficking and firearm violence is well established.â€

The nexus between police officers and firearm violence is well established

[TrickyNicky]

Anyone have a PO #? tried looking but I guess my bing-Fu is a bit lacking.

[Oh Shoot]

Anyone have a PO #? tried looking but I guess my bing-Fu is a bit lacking.

Don't think it has anything to do with Executive or Presidential Order. Just a verbal issuance to the minions of "interpretation" of existing rules.

Here are all presidential actions, nada for the time period before or after the story seems to relate.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions

- OS