Traveling with someone that may have marijuana for work.

[Mike.357]

I had to go back and reread the OP to stay on topic.

 

The one question I have, is why do I have to give up my right to self defense on the possibility or even probability that some other passenger in the vehicle is breaking a law?

It is not my weed.

 

I also question why even if it is my weed why i have to give up my right to self defense.   As long as I am not using why would simple possession matter.  I understand in this backward state it is illegal, and that is the only reason why we give up rights.   Kind of F'd up in my mind.

[Mike.357]

 if you refuse, its shady. Period.

 

I'd hate to look up and see you sitting on my jury.

 

Shady to want to enact your rights?    

 

That my friend in a nutshell is why the 2A exists.

[Guest S4boost]

Because it's against the law.... Why you should be carrying a gun if you're breaking the law? This is starting to sound like the thugs we try to defend ourselves from.

"What does a little bit of weed matter?, it's not big deal if I just get sorta high While I have a deadly weapon strapped to my side"

It's against the law is why it matters and it impairs judgement, which is the same reason it's illegal to have a gun in a bar. They don't mix well.

[Guest S4boost]

I'd hate to look up and see you sitting on my jury.

Shady to want to enact your rights?

That my friend in a nutshell is why the 2A exists.

No one is talking about infringing your rights to have a firearm. Impairment and guns don't go well together. Same with crime and guns. Criminals smoke weed and walk the streets with guns and refute the police. What exactly sets you apart? And I said shady. Not guilty. Point is that it raises the brow. Makes them wonder. I'd be fine with the government taking arms away from druggies. Matter of fact, I'd be fine with drug screenings for permit holders. Edited January 8, 2015 by S4boost

[suspiciousmind]

Because it's against the law.... Why you should be carrying a gun if you're breaking the law? This is starting to sound like the thugs we try to defend ourselves from.
"What does a little bit of weed matter?, it's not big deal if I just get sorta high While I have a deadly weapon strapped to my side"
It's against the law is why it matters and it impairs judgement, which is the same reason it's illegal to have a gun in a bar. They don't mix well.

It's not illegal to have a gun in the bar.

[suspiciousmind]

No one is talking about infringing your rights to have a firearm. Impairment and guns don't go well together. Same with crime and guns. Criminals smoke weed and walk the streets with guns and refute the police. What exactly sets you apart? And I said shady. Not guilty. Point is that it raises the brow. Makes them wonder. I'd be fine with the government taking arms away from druggies. Matter of fact, I'd be fine with drug screenings for permit holders.

I can't wait for weed to be legal so they aren't criminals anymore. It's a giant crock of shit to begin with. Hopefully soon having a bag of a nice relaxing Indica strain will be no different from having a 6 pack of Bud heavy, and this'll all be a moot point.

[Guest S4boost]

It's not illegal to have a gun in the bar.

 

You are correct.

 

I can't wait for weed to be legal so they aren't criminals anymore. It's a giant crock of #### to begin with. Hopefully soon having a bag of a nice relaxing Indica strain will be no different from having a 6 pack of Bud heavy, and this'll all be a moot point.

Well as it stands now, they are in this state, and I'll be at the polls diligently to keep it that way and prevent my young "progressive" generation from taking this country straight to the shitter. And if it ever does get legalized I hope and pray you leave your firearm at home just like I do when I go out with the intention to drink. Also,Denver seems like a cool place.

Adopting more drugs as the norm isn't what this country needs. Is there a conservative sub forum on here? Maybe I need to go over there.

[suspiciousmind]

You are correct.
 

Well as it stands now, they are in this state, and I'll be at the polls diligently to keep it that way and prevent my young "progressive" generation from taking this country straight to the ####ter. And if it ever does get legalized I hope and pray you leave your firearm at home just like I do when I go out with the intention to drink. Also,Denver seems like a cool place.
Adopting more drugs as the norm isn't what this country needs. Is there a conservative sub forum on here? Maybe I need to go over there.

I'm pretty conservative as far as things go. It doesn't make me a crazy left winger to believe in the decriminalization of a plant that is safer than booze. Booze is doing a fine job of murdering teens. I'd rather see my child experimenting with a joint and a box of twinkies than a fifth of Jack behind the wheel of a car.

[Guest S4boost]

I'm pretty conservative as far as things go. It doesn't make me a crazy left winger to believe in the decriminalization of a plant that is safer than booze. Booze is doing a fine job of murdering teens. I'd rather see my child experimenting with a joint and a box of twinkies than a fifth of Jack behind the wheel of a car.

Both impair driving so that's moot. What about all the shooting deaths due to marajuana? And don't say it's cause it's illegal. Don't forget there was a shooting at the celebration in Denver when they legalized it. Or the girl who was ruthlessly murdered in Murfreesboro by her room mate at MTSU.

They're both bad. Not saying marajuana is better or worse than alcohol. They both have pros and cons. My point is that if we continue down this path the liberals will be rallying for Molly next. It won't stop. Maybe I'm just old fashioned. I wouldn't get in the car with you though. Edited January 8, 2015 by S4boost

[suspiciousmind]

Both impair driving so that's moot. What about all the shooting deaths due to marajuana? And don't say it's cause it's illegal. Don't forget there was a shooting at the celebration in Denver when they legalized it. Or the girl who was ruthlessly Murfreesboro by her room mate at MTSU.
They're both bad. Not saying marajuana is better or worse than alcohol. They both have pros and cons. My point is that if we continue down this path the liberals will be rallying for Molly next. It won't stop. Maybe I'm just old fashioned. I wouldn't get in the car with you though.

1) Have you ever smoked marijuana? It doesn't make you want to murder anyone. It is impossible to fathom a marijuana influenced murder. That is a laughable concept. The only thing I've ever murdered was a pizza while high on marijuana.

2) I do not actively smoke marijuana. So, you can ride with me all you want. I am a fan of pursuing natural highs through nature.

[Guest S4boost]

1. I was in highschool once. Alcohol doesn't make people drive.

You made a statement that you'd rather your kid smoke weed than drink and gave two completely differing situatios. Id prefer my kid do neither until he's old enough to make well educated decisions.

Yiu missed my point. Which is that as much as the stoners want you to believe it, one isn't better than the other. Both have health effects. Both cause personality changes when used heavily. Both impair judgement.

Regardless of all that. You shouldn't be any where near a fire arm while intoxicated in public. Do what you want at home. Just be careful. We don't want little jimmy to be another statistic.

[DaveTN]

So you retaliated against people who exercised their rights. The people who said no should be treated exactly the same way as the people that said yes. Are the people that said no somehow more dangerous than the ones that said yes?

No, it wasn’t retaliation on my part and it wasn’t them exercising their rights. It was them committing a violation and me exercising discretion. If you read my post you saw that I’m talking about where there is a violation.

You have a right not to cooperate when you are caught dead bang and the cop has a right to use your decision in determining how to handle the situation. My point was that your decisions and actions have consequences. Refusing to cooperate or refusing to make a statement is not a magic bullet that will allow you to walk away. As I said I had never asked to search a car I didn’t already have probable cause to search; my request was just a tool in the investigation.

Does that mean that everyone that is honest and cooperates with the cops that has something illegal in the car gets a break? Of course not. But how many teenagers have had a cop call their parents or take them home when they were drinking or had a bag of weed instead of towing the car and taking them to jail? I know a few.

DUI, Liquor, and drug violations can be career ending charges for some. People (especially young people) need to know that bad choices got them in that situation, so they need to know that when they are standing on that roadside making choices about their future, not cooperating may or may not be the best course of action; they have to live with the consequences.

They both should be treated the same? Well welcome to the real world; it doesn’t happen that way.

[Mike.357]

Because it's against the law.... Why you should be carrying a gun if you're breaking the law? This is starting to sound like the thugs we try to defend ourselves from.

"What does a little bit of weed matter?, it's not big deal if I just get sorta high While I have a deadly weapon strapped to my side"

It's against the law is why it matters and it impairs judgement, which is the same reason it's illegal to have a gun in a bar. They don't mix well.

 

 

who said anything about getting high while carrying?  Is it assumed pot smokers don't have self control to carry and not get high?

 

It is against an arbitrary law is the reason one would not carry while smoking pot or drinking Budweiser.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Mike.357

[monkeylizard]

1) Have you ever smoked marijuana? It doesn't make you want to murder anyone. It is impossible to fathom a marijuana influenced murder. That is a laughable concept. The only thing I've ever murdered was a pizza while high on marijuana.
 

 

I think he saw "Reefer Madness" once, the colorized version with the purple and green smoke.

Edited January 8, 2015 by monkeylizard

[Guest S4boost]

who said anything about getting high while carrying?  Is it assumed pot smokers don't have self control to carry and not get high?
 
It is against an arbitrary law is the reason one would not carry while smoking pot or drinking Budweiser.

It was sarcasm. As in give an inch take a mile. You start budging on this law then that law. Then another. And it turns into chaos. Before we're we know it we're all drunk and high and running around with ar15's on our backs in the name of freedom.

Is it implied that everyone who drinks has no self control to not carry their weapon? I drink. But not with my firearm. You missed my point.

[Mike.357]

I sure did not see it as sarcsm,  my bad I guess.

 

I truly believe you think if someone has a gun and a bag of weed, within moments they will become stoned out of their mind and start waving a gun around.

[TrickyNicky]

I find it hilarious that people want to keep marijuana criminalizes "for the children". What happens when your child doesn't take your parental advice? (what? No way!) As it sits right now we can effectively ruin young people's lives FOREVER for having even a small amount of pot on them.

The pot prohibition is broken and has been since its inception. As to the worry that next the hippies will rally over another substance, I can't fathom how someone would make the choice to deny freedoms to his fellow man on that pretext, and make no mistake, that's exactly and all any prohibition does, eliminate freedom. I'm glad you'll be diligently working to keep us in the dark ages, I'll be working just as hard to cancel out that effort. :cheers:

[LagerHead]

Whatever happened to cooperating with the police... Is that not a thing anymore?

 

I see a distinction between cooperating with the police and voluntarily surrendering your rights. If I get pulled over for speeding and the cop asks to see my license and registration, I will hand them over without a word said. He is perfectly within his rights to demand proof of licensure, insurance, and registration. If he then asks if he can search my vehicle, why should I let him? It has absolutely nothing to do with why he pulled me over. Should I voluntarily submit to a body cavity search as well just so I can say that I "cooperate with the police"? Should I also invite him back to my house to do a warrentless search on my property? Hell, why stand up for any of my rights. I should just go ahead and surrender my firearm too, because if I'm going to voluntarily surrender my 4th and 5th Amendment rights, what value do my 2nd Amendment rights have? 

[monkeylizard]

That’s not right. I never asked to search a car I didn’t already have probable cause to search. My request was merely conversation to determine how things were going to go down when I found what I was looking for. I had discretion on misdemeanors.

If you know you don’t have anything and you want to refuse, that’s fine; do so. But if you have something illegal in the car; you have a choice to make. The difference could be whether a minor in possession of alcohol was released to his parents at the stop location with no charges or the car was towed and they were taken into custody. Same thing with someone with a bag of weed or a gun.

Choices; you and the cop together will decide what your future will be. You can cooperate, remain silent, or turn into a roadside lawyer; your call.

 

I can appreciate this a bit more with having some time to sleep on it. I should preface my earlier stance of never submitting to a voluntary search by saying that I never knowingly have anything illegal in my vehicle, therefore I see no benefit to consenting to a search. My comments were for people who are trying to be law abiding citizens. If you have something illegal, then yeah, I can understand DaveTN's point. You're more likely to get some concession from the officer if you consent even if he doesn't need it.

 

If you got stopped for what you think is a minor traffic violation, that's not going to give them PC to search your car and find the bag of weed you have in the trunk. Maybe what you don't know is that there's also a BOLO on you and your vehicle from an eye witness that saw you put the bag of weed in your trunk. If you consent, you're banking on the officer being on your side and letting you go, or charging you with a lesser offense. However, even if you think he has PC and you know you have something illegal in the car, by not consenting it will leave the avenue open for an attorney to challenge the search when the officer finds whatever it is he finds. That may or may not happen just as getting a pass from the officer may or may not happen. It's a bit of a crap shoot when trying to determine if there's PC or not and if you should consent or not if you knowingly have something illegal in your car.

 

I still think nothing good can come of consenting if you have nothing to hide, but I can't say that my mind is completely closed to an argument the other way.

Edited January 8, 2015 by monkeylizard

[wileecoyote]

I can't believe this thread is this long, with so many different opinions and suggestions.

It doesn't matter if you like/dislike weed, use/don't use weed, favor/oppose legalizing weed, or favor/oppose giving consent to search.

All that matters, with respect to the OP's original question, is that weed is illegal nearly everywhere, and possession/use of weed while also in possession of a firearm is a major criminal offense regardless of whether or not you have a gun permit. So traveling with or being in close proximity to others that possess/use weed puts you at significant risk of major criminal charges or other legal / civil trouble.

You can try to rationalize it or minimize it all you want, but the risk remains high. So many things can (and often do) go wrong in these scenarios. Someone else stashes weed in your luggage or gear boxes, attempts to hide it under the seat or near you in the vehicle, drops it on the ground near you, gets residue on your clothing, places paraphernalia in your proximity, lies to the police about you being a user/dealer, etc. etc. etc.

And then there's even worse scenarios where your gun is seen or detected after drugs are discovered or PC exists, and before you have a chance to explain, in which case things can go south very fast. Or you are involved in a shooting and it comes out in court that you were knowingly associating with drug users at the time, possibly even using or in proximity to the use and sale, and things get really bad for you.

So you need to decide which is more important: your safety and freedom (in which case you carry everywhere and avoid being around drug users), or your desire to play music with and associate with drug users (in which case you should leave your gun at home and/or be prepared for legal / criminal / civil trouble).

[suspiciousmind]

I can't believe this thread is this long, with so many different opinions and suggestions.

It doesn't matter if you like/dislike weed, use/don't use weed, favor/oppose legalizing weed, or favor/oppose giving consent to search.

All that matters, with respect to the OP's original question, is that weed is illegal nearly everywhere, and possession/use of weed while also in possession of a firearm is a major criminal offense regardless of whether or not you have a gun permit. So traveling with or being in close proximity to others that possess/use weed puts you at significant risk of major criminal charges or other legal / civil trouble.

You can try to rationalize it or minimize it all you want, but the risk remains high. So many things can (and often do) go wrong in these scenarios. Someone else stashes weed in your luggage or gear boxes, attempts to hide it under the seat or near you in the vehicle, drops it on the ground near you, gets residue on your clothing, places paraphernalia in your proximity, lies to the police about you being a user/dealer, etc. etc. etc.

And then there's even worse scenarios where your gun is seen or detected after drugs are discovered or PC exists, and before you have a chance to explain, in which case things can go south very fast. Or you are involved in a shooting and it comes out in court that you were knowingly associating with drug users at the time, possibly even using or in proximity to the use and sale, and things get really bad for you.

So you need to decide which is more important: your safety and freedom (in which case you carry everywhere and avoid being around drug users), or your desire to play music with and associate with drug users (in which case you should leave your gun at home and/or be prepared for legal / criminal / civil trouble).

It's not a desire to work with drug users, it's simply mandatory in this profession. It's impossible to know without asking every single person I work with, which I have no desire to do. It's also lame to be that guy when I support changes in law.

...and you're right, it's amazing the rift in the gun community with regard to pot. Some people definitely still have that leftover reefer madness mentality.

[tnguy]

Two areas that I like to talk to young people about; DUI and traffic stops; they deserve to know the truth, not a load of garbage from someone that has never done a traffic stop, doesn’t know the requirements or procedures for a vehicle search, or is a lawyer that wants everyone to refuse and invoke so they can make some money.

Parents owe their kids more than telling them to refuse a search or invoke Miranda. There is a time to do that, but it’s the kids future that the dice are being rolled on. You are responsible for your actions; you need to be educated about what happens to make informed decisions.

BTW… I’m talking about the situations where there is a violation.

 

There's a difference between refusing and not consenting. If a cop really wants to search, he will do so anyway. If you end up in a courtroom, whether you consented or not could make a difference if there was not probable cause.

 

You have to ask yourself what is the motive of a cop that wants to search without probable cause though...

Edited January 8, 2015 by tnguy

[suspiciousmind]

There's a difference between refusing and not consenting. If a cop really wants to search, he will do so anyway. If you end up in a courtroom, whether you consented or not could make a difference if there was not probable cause.

You have to ask yourself what is the motive of a cop that wants to search without probable cause though...

Yes, a cop can and will make things up. I've been pulled over for "swerving"(had zero drinks), been told I "look high"(not high), that the cop can "smell weed"(not possible unless the cop had been smoking), as well as other things.

Some of these cops will say absolutely anything, and it only hurts their reputations among law abiding citizens.

That being said, I've had some great run ins with cops where they were very courteous and helpful. AND HONEST. :) Edited January 8, 2015 by suspiciousmind

[monkeylizard]

All that matters, with respect to the OP's original question, is that weed is illegal nearly everywhere, and possession/use of weed while also in possession of a firearm is a major criminal offense regardless of whether or not you have a gun permit. So traveling with or being in close proximity to others that possess/use weed puts you at significant risk of major criminal charges or other legal / civil trouble.

 

The coyote speaks the thruth.

[Guest S4boost]

I see a distinction between cooperating with the police and voluntarily surrendering your rights. If I get pulled over for speeding and the cop asks to see my license and registration, I will hand them over without a word said. He is perfectly within his rights to demand proof of licensure, insurance, and registration. If he then asks if he can search my vehicle, why should I let him? It has absolutely nothing to do with why he pulled me over. Should I voluntarily submit to a body cavity search as well just so I can say that I "cooperate with the police"? Should I also invite him back to my house to do a warrentless search on my property? Hell, why stand up for any of my rights. I should just go ahead and surrender my firearm too, because if I'm going to voluntarily surrender my 4th and 5th Amendment rights, what value do my 2nd Amendment rights have?

I can't believe this thread is this long, with so many different opinions and suggestions.
It doesn't matter if you like/dislike weed, use/don't use weed, favor/oppose legalizing weed, or favor/oppose giving consent to search.
All that matters, with respect to the OP's original question, is that weed is illegal nearly everywhere, and possession/use of weed while also in possession of a firearm is a major criminal offense regardless of whether or not you have a gun permit. So traveling with or being in close proximity to others that possess/use weed puts you at significant risk of major criminal charges or other legal / civil trouble.
You can try to rationalize it or minimize it all you want, but the risk remains high. So many things can (and often do) go wrong in these scenarios. Someone else stashes weed in your luggage or gear boxes, attempts to hide it under the seat or near you in the vehicle, drops it on the ground near you, gets residue on your clothing, places paraphernalia in your proximity, lies to the police about you being a user/dealer, etc. etc. etc.
And then there's even worse scenarios where your gun is seen or detected after drugs are discovered or PC exists, and before you have a chance to explain, in which case things can go south very fast. Or you are involved in a shooting and it comes out in court that you were knowingly associating with drug users at the time, possibly even using or in proximity to the use and sale, and things get really bad for you.
So you need to decide which is more important: your safety and freedom (in which case you carry everywhere and avoid being around drug users), or your desire to play music with and associate with drug users (in which case you should leave your gun at home and/or be prepared for legal / criminal / civil trouble).

Agreed completely on all fronts. Your wisdom shines brightly gentlemen. Edited January 8, 2015 by S4boost