Makiaveli

Most are idiots, just like most people. But don't lump them all in the same basket. My mom would likely ask you (jokingly) if you could come help her with some "special" patients

I'm sure the response would be pretty much the same regardless. IE the person won't really care whether you're a paramedic or pizza delivery guy....they will give you hell or a thumbs up either way. Although, I would assume any paramedics associated with the government would be out of luck. Also, would suck if you went to a hospital that didn't allow carry....

Which would prove ti has happened. However are you implying that if it hasn't happened to one of the members here who just happens into this thread that it hasn't/couldn't happen? It's common sense. They would only ask if Friendly, Neutral or Hostile to the idea. In two of three cases being rude could easily tip the scale.

This. As I said above, unless there is NO ONE else around to tell what happened, why risk it? What's wrong with your wife making a statement? Kids? (the adult/near adult version) Then all you have to do is invoke your right to not to talk, and say can't we do this in the morning or similar? Now Dave does make a good point in that some lawyers are educated idiots and have an agenda, ie provoke a confrontation so they can slam on the cops. I just don't think this is one of those cases. Now as to basing if off more than internet videos, yea I've talked to quite a few cops about this subject, and I've known some people involved in legit shootings. Fortunately they happened in the great state of Kentucky in a fairly rural area and once the cops determined the bad guy was indeed a bad guy and didn't live anywhere near the house they said we'll deal with all this in the morning, you folks have been through enough. But I am not naive and don't think that all cops feel that way. I've met several who practically drool at the idea of putting on their Junior Detective Caps and trying to catch a "real" bad guy.....

Have you and Ohshoot watch the first video? I felt the same way you guys do until I saw that. I didn't see the harm in talking. Don't lie and you can't get tripped up right? The point is cops are human. They can and will make snap judgment calls. If they think you are guilty they are going to try and find the evidence they "know" is there. Just like the example he uses. He reads a headline and 5 minutes later the majority of the class implicates themselves in a murder by stating information that could only have been gained by being there. Well that or by mentally filling in the blanks when you heard the story, and then falsely remembering it later. So you go right ahead and tell the truth AS YOU REMEMBER IT. Just don't slip up and have a senior moment. Or speculate as to who he is, what he was doing etc. Zero chance you will say something that will sound suspicious when they later find out he dated your daughter. Or your neighbor's son. All of a sudden calling him a slur in the heat of the moment that was just totally off the wall could suddenly sound like motive.

Well not starting that debate again. Point being, as a rule, the cops make the call right then and there. I'm sure if there is a shred of evidence the shooter was in the wrong, he's going downtown. So, my point was and is, keeping your mouth shut might keep you from going to jail, but running your mouth won't talk you out of it. Either you are at home and there is a presumption you were in the right, or you weren't and it's all going to come down to witnesses etc. Your words won't change what they say but could complicate things.

Question for the wise ones.....it says legal in the vehicle as long as it isn't handled. Would that include removing the holster from your belt etc?

If you don't want to answer, I think the safe response is to ask why do you care. THEN if it turns out to be the owner/manager etc, you can respond appropriately. Do you really want to blow off some random citizen only to have then go back into the office and call the cops and tell them you have a gun and refused to leave? Sure that isn't what happened, but your word versus theirs.......add a cop who is having a bad day and good luck with that.

That first video is full of examples of how telling the truth can get you in trouble. It won't take long for the cops to decide if you are going to jail or not. You can talk yourself into going, but not out of as a rule. Also, remember it doesn't really matter whether or not the cops charge you, it's the DA that has the final word. Zimmerman anyone?

Good to hear. Hated to derail the thread, but it can cause major problems if untreated. I just wish I had the ability to fall asleep like that...

Hmmm.....if you claim medical distress, then a doc says you are fine, could that come back to bite you in the butt? IE lying to avoid talking to them, as opposed to exercising your legal right to STFU?

As a side note, that sounds like Sleep Apnea. Long story short, the snoring is actually you not breathing and so you never really get into deep sleep. One "positive" side effect of the sleep deprivation is you can fall asleep anywhere, anytime. Might want to check with your doc. On the other hand, if a mouse burglar ever breaks in, he better hope he passed on the beans

This is good advice. Unless something else goes wrong. Such as the DA deciding you are a gun nut. Or one of the cops screws up and says you said something you didn't. I am going with what a buddy of mine told me. He is a cop, but not saying where as his dept frowns on cops having opinions of their own. He said simply say "I was in fear for my life and/or great bodily harm. I would like to speak with a lawyer." If it was a good shoot, then like you say the cops will most likely be able to figure it out. You and your clean record vs the other guys likely not so clean record. Worst case scenario: you aren't at home when it happens, and there are no witnesses, and no spouse to tell what happened. Then yea you might wind up going downtown. As to the only do yourself good, watch the first video. It's real easy to slip up. He had a good example where he read a headline and 5 mins later the majority of the class (and myself as well I hate to admit) just admitted to knowing facts that weren't in the news. If the cops are planning to arrest you, then they will do so. What exactly are you going to tell them that will change their minds? If they think the evidence at hand shows you are guilty, then you are going to be arrested no matter how much truth you tell them. If they decide that the guy was 20 feet away when you shot him despite you saying it was 5 feet, then you actually believe they will say "My bad...have a good night."?

Umm...not sure we are on the same page. Unless the lawyer lied, a cop will be allowed to testify about anything you said if the PROSECUTOR asks. If the defense asks, then it will be ruled hearsay. So I already changed my mind on that, as I didn't know that. Discovery, and having to turn over all the exculpatory evidence and all that.

I did not know that anything you tell the cops is considered hearsay and thus CANNOT be used for you in a trial. Odd that it isn't hearsay if it doesn't help you.

Another reason they call you first is too many false calls can get you fined. At least in Davidson county, I assume it's similar most places. If it happens to you once a year, multiply that by all the people with alarms, add in all the businesses with stupid employees and the city would need a Alarm division along with Traffic, Burglary, and Homicide etc.

Sorry, I'm white and thus if I comment on this story I will become a racist. At least that's what the media tells me. Sad thing is, I'm legally allowed to call myself an American Indian, but apparently any white blood makes you white. Unless you are black. Or is it the other way around? WTH ever happened to the content of my character mattering more than my skin color?

Well Dover breeds mutants. C-villians are just odd. Sorry for any confusion.

Shoes and light weights. Of course, these take time, and the right horse and a lot of work by expert trainers. A lot easier and cheaper to hurt the horse. FTR, I am not a "horse person", but my wife's family had a ringside box for many years at the Celebration. They also showed and even won some. Never were into soring and were not tolerant of those who did. Those of you who live in Nashville might remember the Metro official accused of reducing his own property taxes? That was blatantly false, and was payback against my in-laws for dropping a dime on a guy who was abusing his horses. My point is, TWH do have a high stepping gait. They are a very pleasant to ride horse, even for a complete amateur like me. There is no need to ban the hobby, just to sneak up behind the bastards who sore and beat the crap out of them. I have a bat and am willing to travel.

I don't know...he's from Clarksville...they breed them odd up there

Yikes Knoxville area. Someone take good notes and or video tape it!!

I think it's mostly just lack of foresight. Mine is at the complete other end of the house, since that is where we come and go 99% of the time. Just didn't think about needing to shut off the alarm in an emergency. Fortunately the siren is close to there so it isn't deafening in the rest of the house but will easily wake you up. Our false alarm was caused by forgetting the neighbor dog was visiting and when she got up in the middle of the night the motion detector went off. My favorite false alarm was I opened the front door at 2am to ask the guy walking around why he was just beating on my door. About the time I realized he was a cop (neighbor's horse was loose) and stowed my gun the alarm went off. Fortunately he jumped almost as much as I did so I didn't feel too bad

Sadly I'm like peejman, more thought than action. Though on the plus side my "new" job (I left Police IT for Metro IT) has a fitness center downstairs that is 24/7 so once I have a steady shift to work, I am going to set a regimen. I expect to be on 2nd shift for awhile, so hopefully I can work out before and not have to worry about offending too many people

This misses the point. As Patton said in his experience 20% don't have one. Sure neither of those were what you would call "hardened criminals". But it's the same principle as pulling someone over for having one broken tail light out of 3 (counting the "cyclops"). It's a courtesy stop and often just results in the citizen learning they have a broken light. However, it's also a great way to catch people who have warrants etc. On a slight tangent, have you ever bitched that cops won't take action to prevent a crime? Like waiting for a guy to actually put his wife in the hospital before they arrest him? Well isn't this exactly what you are asking them to do? Be proactive? Not wait for the guy to start shooting before they take action?

Unless a cop asks you to do something illegal, you pretty much have to obey even if he is wrong to ask. On the street is not the place to take it up. While you are "educating" a cop on the law, you are tying him up from getting on with his day and thus impeding him/her in protecting and serving.