Keyless

I think 6 makes for good size grip . To me 7 rounds makes it too big for a pocket . It is easy to get 7 if wanted by adding a different magazine or an extension . To go shorter is not so easy . I have a Taurus 709 slim that holds 7 and I wish it was 6 . The grip is just too long for my pockets.    I do think it would have been nice if it came with 2 different magazines like the model 30 did when I bought mine. It came with a flush 9 round and the 10 round that extended the grip. It would have been just as easy for the 43 to have a flush 6 round and an extended 7 round. At any rate extensions will be available in no time.

The 17L and 34 are on my list to buy someday .I am in no hurry but will  just wait for a good deal to come my way when I have the extra money . 

I have seen that before . I will believe it when I see one and not until. After all the problems with the 42 , I will also wait a few years and let them get it worked out before I buy one , if I buy one. Some of the early Gen 4 guns in 9 mm had some issues . The 42 has some issues , and already has several updated parts and the magazine has been updated .   If it is so , it is too little too late . I bought a 19 Gen 2 today and I see no need to run out and hurry to buy something they took there sweet time to come out with. 

I would think Gen 4 will break in that area sooner because it is thinner there. It Seems to be common with enough rounds , but I don't see me shooting that many through one.    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ95q9xKb3o

 At that price I am guessing you are looking at the ones by Auto Ordnance now being made by Khar. If so My brother in law bought one last year. I had always wanted one also but that idea is long gone now.     Other than the normal complaint , VERY HEAVY , it is also VERY hard to cock and put a round in the chamber . The spring pressure is unreal . His has been pretty bad to jam as well . First I found a bur on the extractor that helped but he still has problems with one of the magazines. To me the barrel is too long because of the NFA  and it just doesn't have the look in person of the real thing. It still looks good but I kept saying , something just doesn't look right.     He probably should have been sent back for repair but after a little research on google he just kept trying this and that and it does OK now but it is not great. Seems the problems are common and that sending it back for repair seldom got them repaired. He did buy a drum magazine but then had problems with the bolt staying back after almost every shot. I contacted Khar by email and the only reply was send it in for repair , so they might have fixed it but he did not want to send it back . He had to replace the spring for the bolt hold open . This was a new gun not used and he has finally gotten around 400 rounds through it. It does work better with the drum now than the stick magazine.    Would he buy one again ? NO way . Would I buy one ? I had always wanted one and several years ago I had the money with me and found one. I picked it up , looked it over and held it for a while . Too heavy for me and I walked away with the money still in my pocket. After shooting his and seeing the problems his has had , No way .     Do yourself a favor and do some research of problems , customer service and find one you can put in your hands before you buy one . Keep in mind the semi auto versions are totally different inside in order to work from a closed bolt . One of the things they did when making them semi auto , was to move the height of the bolt so that a full auto bolt can't be installed . In trying to change the existing gun so that it meets the non NFA requirements you end up with something that wasn't designed to work that way . If it had been designed as a semi auto or closed bolt gun from the start , I think it might have worked better . 

The problem I see is there opinions changes whenever someone different stamps his name on the bottom of the newest letter and I guess they are trying to make a name for themselves  . When you do not have a clear , right or wrong law or ruling then it is subject to change the nextime some new dickhead gets a stamp with his name on it and starts stamping the opinion letters. OK today and a NO NO tomorrow is totally unacceptable in my opinion. But that is my opinion and it will never change.     I still think that the whole NFA and every other ban,ruling or whatever that some numb nuts with initials for there department name comes up with is unconstitutional and we are not really required to obey unconstitutional laws . However I like living outside of the bared hotel , so I obey them as best as I can. But they keep changing the rules . Eventually if they keep it up , we are going to go to sleep as law abiding citizens and wake up as felons.     I still have 2 pistols with braces and plan on keeping them . If this keeps up , I guess I will finally end up doing a trust and changing them to what I really wanted to start with . 

How can anyone keep up with all the changes ? I can't even remember what I had for supper last night . 

 Found this on you tube for the 336 Marlin .   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOHFJmzBsx4   part available at Numrich   https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufacturers/WesternAuto-33567/Rifles-42586/205-40160.htm   I have fixed one like this   http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/jams-all-kinds/24519-different-way-fix-marlin-jam.html   And also slightly bent the lifter in an arbor press on another one . Both work fine now.The lifter was back ordered on the one I fixed with the saw blade and I now have the new part but haven't changed it because it works fine .

Lifters on Marlins get wore on the bottom and cause problems . If it is close to the Marlin 336 there are videos on You Tube showing how to take it apart and then research " The Marlin Jam" and there is info on what to look for . The pictures I am seeing from a search of the 205 , it look just like the Marlin 336. 

Those look like good finds .   I bought several older Marlins over the past few years. Cleveland pawn shops have been my best source . I have found a 1894 in 357 and one in 44 and also found a 444s . I found a ported 1895g in Chattanooga last year in 45-70. I also picked up a 30-30 Texan 336 and a couple of 336's in 35 Remington ( a great caliber ) .I have been thinking of selling some but everytime I get them out I change my mind .   I have a soft spot for the lever actions . 

I bought one used just because it was cheap ( he needed some extra money for a trip ) and I was collecting Glocks . He shot it some at my house after he got it new and it seemed to do fine most of the time . It seemed like it did not want to fully lock up a few time with S&B ammo . Other ammo worked fine . After I got it I took it apart and it does have the updated parts in it , build date is May 2014 . I have not yet fired it but there seems to be a bunch who are having problems . I just have plenty of carry guns and not a fan of the 380 . If I got one and was going to depend on it , I would make sure what ammo worked and stick with it.   Glock does seem to have a good warranty . I know that no one wants to buy a new gun and then send it to be repaired . I just sent them a magazine that split up the side and in about a week a new came FED EX. 

good to know , Thanks . I still don't think it is worth the trouble it might end up being in the long run . If I was going to shorten one I would go ahead and do the NFA paperwork and go around 12" . Maybe someday but not now for me anyway . Too many other things higher on my list .

I have been wanting to do this for a long time but after the last mind changing bull on the Sig brace I figure all I have to do is build one and somehow they will change there mind ( like anyone in the ATF has a mind ) and then I will be stuck trying to follow some new rule .     But to answer the Question . It can never have had a stock . It MUST have been a PISTOL GRIP ONLY ( often called PGO ) firearm and it is then not listed as a shotgun but as a firearm . It can't be one of the combo's that comes with both the pistol grip and a stock . Because it is not a shotgun ( Just because it shoots shotgun shells , does not mean it is a shotgun ) and listed as a firearm or other or something but they are not called a shotgun , Then the 26" overall length is what keeps it from being an AOW and not an NFA weapon.    Most are using the birds head grip to gain length and then the 14 " barrel . There was a parts lists for the Mossberg 500 on the Raptor grip web site but last time I looked I had trouble finding it . It has also been done on the Remington 870 . If you do one I am not sure I would want a stock that fits it anywhere close .    I still think that it is a gray area and given the right situation you could still end up spending a night in jail and have a big headache on your hands . It is a loophole for now that most officers are not going to know about and that is not meant as a slam on the officers . With the way the rules change , who can keep up with them.  All they know is "Shotgun and 18" barrel anything shorter is illegal . All it takes is them to change the rules so that if it shoots shotgun shell it is a shotgun and you will have an illegal weapon .     I got as far as ordering the info packet on doing an NFA for one and just cant bring myself to pay the fee and wait for several month so that they will let me do something that I feel is only illegal because of an unconstitutional law . I do not agree with the whole NFA law . However I prefer to stay out of jail , so I do my best to abide with it and the stupid 922R . What we can afford should be the only limiting factor for the law abiding citizen . 

Years ago when I still felt like hunting , several around here went to the 7 mm Magnum . I bought one of there old 742 in 30-06 and felt that it was as big as anyone needs in Tennessee for anything we have. Now they seem to have gone with the 300 Win Mag and even the 300 Ultra Win Mag .     I agree with a earlier post that it might be the little thingy syndrome.

I believe looking at the bottom of the gun where the magazine goes in and holding it so it looks like a D , the Gen 4 looks to be just a little bit smaller than the SF . The SF is smaller than the standard Gen 3 doing it the same way. All 20 and 12 guns will be the same if they are they same type as in Gen 3 , SF or Gen 4 . On the Gen 4 you can add the 41 as the same frame as the 20 and 21 Gen 4. I read some where that the Gen 4 was the same as the SF but mine feels much better than the SF and does not feel or look the same to me .I am going to try and get a picture of all 3 frames side by side  with the magazine out .

I have all 3 and the Gen 4 is a little smaller than the SF. I know they say that the SF is basically the same as the Gen 4 without the backstrap but it is smaller and feels smaller . The Gen 4 is the best fitting to my hand . I was anti Gen 4 but they only make the 41 in a Gen 4 so it was my first Gen 4 .    I just put together a long slide 10 mm and purchased a SF frame for it because I already had a 20 & a 21 in the standard Gen 3 .    I would post a picture of all 3 but I have never figured out how to post pictures on here . I know I am computer stupid , no need to coment . I can email them if you pm me your email address .  

I rebarreled one a few years ago and best I remember it was the same thread as the small ring Mauser . I would do some more checking because my memory is not the best. I bought a barrel from a guy on Gun Broker who short chambered them and sold them . The one I got was a take off from a Ruger 7mm Magnum . He was cutting off the end ,turning it down and threading it for the small ring Mauser . I went back with the factory 7 x 57 . Mine just had a bad barrel . Boyd's also offers a nice sporter stock . 

I stayed away from Gen for a long time . I ran across a model 41 and they are only available in Gen 4 , and I bought it . I felt no difference in the trigger . I have bout and traded for a couple others that are Gen a 27 and a 35 and the trigger is fine on them . I did read elsewhere that the early ones had problems but most anything does. Best to wait and let the bugs get worked out after a year or 2. I bought a late Gen 3 17 that was bad to put the brass to the face and I was not limp wristing it and had no problems with any other one I had including the model 20 in 10 mm. I installed the updated ejector and have had no more problems .     I am up 2 my eyes in Glocks and I really like them . 99 % of the time I carry a 33 with a 32 magazine but on occasion I carry either the PT 709 Slim Taurus or a NAA 22 magnum . If they ever make one I will buy one . If they don't I will buy whatever else they make just to go with the others in the collection . But any big changes like a totally new Generation or sized gun and I will be slow to buy it and let the bugs get worked out.

To me they still haven't made a "pocket " 380 . I bought one because it was dirt cheap , still haven't shot it and not sure if I ever will . I was there when the original owner shot it so I know it works  . Others are making 9 mm pistols the size or real close to that of the model 42 .  I carried a Kel Tec P3AT for years and that is a pocket gun. I heard they are a million guns behind now .    The " 40 Hunter " should help them get caught up . Don't get me wrong , I am a 10 mm fan and have a model 20 and a conversion barrel for my G30 so that it basically gives me a model 29 . But you are going to have a very limited amount of people that will even think of getting a 10 mm at all and then even fewer that want a larger pistol than the full size 20 . Every one seemed to gripe about the grip being to big on the 20/21 pistols to start with so they came up with the "SF" short frame . I am one of the ones that would have bought one but with all the secrecy of coming products , I had no idea what they would be making next so I bought a Lone Wolf long slide and barrel for Christmas and an SF lower to give me a complete 6.02" ported 10 mm with a stainless slide . It is just not cut for optics that I wouldn't have put on it anyway . So I already have one and see no need to buy one just to get Glock printed on the slide .     I have read several other forums where people are tired of waiting and after the news that no new 9mm  at the shot show , where going to buy some other brand . I have a Taurus PT709 slim , A little big for the pocket , depending on the pants , but it is clear Glock is going to do what they want and don't care what we want . Vote with your dollars and buy something else and then when or if they do build one let them wonder why it didn't sell as well as they thought. I am sure it would sell but every year there are customers buying something else that will not replace it with a Glock "IF" Glock ever builds one. I am one of the stupid ones that will probably replace my Taurus with one if they build one. But only because I am collecting different models and have the other single stacks. I would be in no hurry and wait on the bugs to get worked out and then also wait for a deal on one , but I could see me doing it.     I don't see how they have sold as many of the 42's as they have . I would have never bought one new and then given the problems with it, and size  (it's too big for my pocket) . It is supposedly the most comfortable to shoot in the 380 polymer pistols , but why buy a 380 to shoot . The ammo is higher and less powerful than the 9 x 19 . I just don't get it but then again they didn't ask me .   I do like my 36 in 45 ACP and carry it every now and then . Many say it was a flop for them on sales . 

 I need a Gen 1 and a Gen 2 in something . This leaves me free to buy used Glocks because I already have what they offered new this year. I put together a Lone Wolf 10 mm long slide in December  ( other than the optics ). But I bet S&W  and other makers got extra sales in single stack 9's this week . 

 They are in no hurry to get us a single stack 9 ( if ever ) so I would not look for a 22 LR anytime soon ( if ever ) . I plan on buying a dedicated lower for my 22 LR like I did for My 6.02" 10 mm that I put together last month . 

I bought a Lone Wolf slide and barrel in December and made a long slide 10 mm so I can pass on buying this one . Mine is just not cut for the optics .    I also bought an Advantage Arms 22 LR conversion for a 19/23/32 and it works great . They make it for all sizes .    Also would have wanted a single stack 9 mm but I have one from a different company and with all the bugs the 42 had ,I will give it some time before I buy one .  So I get to save a few bucks this year . 

I just bought a G 41 that are only available in Gen 4 and it does feel better in the hand ( without any of the added back straps ) than the Gen 3 model 21 I have but it is still big. The 21 you have should have good value if you sell it to an individual . I would go to a gun shop that has a large selection and hold as many as possible before buying one.  I do not have a Gen 4 in the full size Glock 9 mm /40 /357 size guns to compare to the 21 but they are quite a bit smaller in feel and I believe the Gen 4 is even a little bit smaller ( again , without the added back strap ) than the Gen 3 in the grip area .  

The 10 mm is popular with hikers and those that might run into bears . I have seen video of the 10 mm dropping deer in its tracks . Also heard of it being used for hogs . I guess most anything that one hunts with a big revolver could be hunted with a pistol . I am sure there is probably some exceptions but I would think it could handle anything in Tennessee. 

Tactical length or Long Slide ? The 41 is closer to the Tactical 34/35 length with a barrel at 5.32 inches . The Long Slide 17L and 24 have barrels at 6.02 long . Time will tell but I would think it would be the same length as the 41 but then again they offered the 6" hunting barrel . If they ended up with a thicker slide like the older 20 it could go either way. Some say the thicker slide is a must for the 10 mm.     I just bought a Long Slide from Lone Wolf and assembled a 6" 10 mm long slide ,so if that is what they make , I don't have to buy one.    My wife keeps asking why I buy so many that look just alike .