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Sam1

Idiot of the year goes to these guys (and it's only February)

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Isn't there a legal bar to be met in the use of deadly force? otherwise an officer can claim he feared for his life almost anytime he makes a traffic stop or any other contact for that matter. Imminent death or bodily harm, or can I just shoot a road rager that thinks he can come up to my truck window just because I think he is going to hurt me?

 

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1 hour ago, ken56 said:

OK, these 2 are well known 2A activists in Detroit. What they did was not illegal, unlike here in TN where it is illegal to carry a firearm into a police station. The masks are the very masks the police and military wear in cold weather, still not illegal nor are the vests. While a lot of you on here may disagree with the method, they were lawfully conducting legitimate business as they went there to file a complaint. I don't fully condone their actions and methods either but they did NOTHING ILLEGAL nor did they verbally threaten anyone.  The weapon was laying across his mid section and not in his hands so that did not convey an immediate threat and the pistol was holstered on his hip. This conveys that the people have an inalienable right to bear arms and that the police do not have a monopoly on rights. Its not up to them who exercises a right. 2A rights will not be championed by hiding our side arms under our shirts, rather that we should show others that good people carry firearms too........openly AND concealed.

It's not illegal to eat your own turds.

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I am sure there are people out there that do..............you quoted me in that response, what exactly is it you disagree with?

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25 minutes ago, ken56 said:

have a sense of humor dude.

I do, I do. Can you get word to those two what complete and total ####tards we think they are here in the patron state of shootin' stuff?

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1 hour ago, ken56 said:

...What they did was not illegal, unlike here in TN where it is illegal to carry a firearm into a police station....

It is not illegal to carry into a police station in TN per se.

- OS

Edited by Oh Shoot

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34 minutes ago, ken56 said:

Isn't there a legal bar to be met in the use of deadly force? otherwise an officer can claim he feared for his life almost anytime he makes a traffic stop or any other contact for that matter. Imminent death or bodily harm, or can I just shoot a road rager that thinks he can come up to my truck window just because I think he is going to hurt me?

 

The “legal bar” in most states I’m sure would be covered by “A reasonable person believing that someone was in immediate danger of death or great bodily harm.” The “Reasonable person” would be a Judge or jury.

Plenty of people have said they shot someone because they were scared. For some it worked; others went to prison. Joe McKnight was unarmed and shot in a road rage incident. The shooter did not deny shooting him and said he was scared. He wasn’t immediately charged, but has since been charged with manslaughter. We will have to wait to see how that works out. (As far as your question about can you just shoot someone)

Had the barrel of that rifle moved in the direction of those Officers they would have shot him; I know I would have. And I would bet you couldn’t find a jury in the land to convict them of anything. Those guys are only alive because they didn’t move and did what they were told.

Teach your kids to stay alive. Teach them that if you threaten someone with a gun (real or perceived), cops or citizens; it could cost them their life. Dead is dead and the fact there is a misunderstanding doesn’t change that.

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22 hours ago, Sam1 said:

https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=be4_1486363147

For real?  This expert level Voldemort stuff!

Agreed, these guys are morons! Sadly, it's too early to pass out championship trophies, because I have no doubt someone more stupider will do something even more stupider before the end of the year. :D

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Time will tell what charges and outcome will be for them. The one guy only had a camera and tripod and was not armed and was still arrested, on what I do not know.  Dave said "Had the barrel of that rifle moved in the direction of the officers...".... even if his hand was nowhere near the trigger? The police may get away with a shooting like that but not a mere citizen. That's part of the rub for me, citizens have the inalienable right to bear arms and the police do not have the authority to usurp that right if no crime has been committed. They do it all the time though, and we citizens comply .....or die for our convictions.

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5 minutes ago, ken56 said:

"Had the barrel of that rifle moved in the direction of the officers...".... even if his hand was nowhere near the trigger? The police may get away with a shooting like that but not a mere citizen. That's part of the rub for me, citizens have the inalienable right to bear arms and the police do not have the authority to usurp that right if no crime has been committed. They do it all the time though, and we citizens comply .....or die for our convictions.

I have a feeling, based on the dress of the two morons in the film, even with their film rolling, a normal citizen would have been able to call it justified. 

 

Legal or not, they were armed, they were masked. Just like most liquor store and bank robberies we all read about on a daily basis.

 

Their own video can and will be used against them.

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I can agree that all the tactical stuff was a bit much and would make anyone go on high alert, me included. By the letter of the law they did nothing illegal. If we willingly give up rights for lawful conduct then we are just mere subjects to our government. Where will it end?

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2 hours ago, ken56 said:

I am sure there are people out there that do..............you quoted me in that response, what exactly is it you disagree with?

 "I don't fully condone their actions and methods either but they did NOTHING ILLEGAL"

Edited by mikegideon

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1 hour ago, BigK said:

Agreed, these guys are morons! Sadly, it's too early to pass out championship trophies, because I have no doubt someone more stupider will do something even more stupider before the end of the year. :D

Not only is there lots of stupid... the stupid is really pissed off right now. These two bozos won't win the month, much less the year.

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And if the founders of our country had said, "well, the king said we have to turn over all our muskets to his agents so lets pile them over there........" we would have no 2A today. This battle still goes on today.

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2 hours ago, ken56 said:

Read a news story posted on Mlive.com. I am link illiterate. I am formerly from MI and was active in the open carry movement there and I still keep in touch with old friends........You know....... guys that know other guys who know the 2 who did this.

So you're not familiar with our local version of these idiots that decided it was a good idea to OC a rifle in front of a high school, pacing up and down the sidewalk back and forth until the cops arrived, and this was right after a couple of school shootings occurred.

I mean, that's perfectly legal too and no one should bat an eye.  They should just not pay any attention to a man walking back and forth on the sidewalk with a rifle strapped to him while school is in session?  Then, they should only respond if that guy decided to unshoulder the gun and start firing on the school which would take about 3 seconds, and the police take 5 minutes to get there.

#### that, they should have had his face imprinted on the bumper of a cruiser so he didn't have time to react.  Like DaveTN said, no one except the person with the gun knows what is going through their mind.  Purposefully antagonizing situations because of some twisted interpretation that you are saving the world by being a youtube freedom fighter does zero good for the 2A, in any manner, no matter how you try to spin it.

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20 minutes ago, mikegideon said:

Not only is there lots of stupid... the stupid is really pissed off right now. These two bozos won't win the month, much less the year.

Challenge accepted, Voldemort has disappeared since the school thing. Prior to that, Id say you had a fair chance at being correct.

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Well, it was a police station, not a school. The proverbial lions den with dozens of armed officers pointing pistols at them. The police are more of a threat to the citizen than the citizen is to the police.  By your reasoning no one should be armed then. that's my take on your statement.

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55 minutes ago, mikegideon said:

 "I don't fully condone their actions and methods either but they did NOTHING ILLEGAL"

I maintain they did nothing illegal. Open carry of any firearm in MI is legal WITHOUT a permit. Masks are legal to wear anywhere. Looking like GI Joe is legal. They will charge them with some BS thing like disorderly conduct or inciting panic. I will try to keep up on exactly what the charges are.

Edited by ken56

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1 minute ago, ken56 said:

Well, it was a police station, not a school. The proverbial lions den with dozens of armed officers pointing pistols at them. The police are more of a threat to the citizen than the citizen is to the police.  By your reasoning no one should be armed then. that's my take on your statement.

police station, school, church, mall, your own house... you said previously that it doesn't matter because it is legal, and you took my bait on the school post. That's the point I was trying to get across, everyone has boundaries no matter what they try to project.  It just took a little bit of baiting to get you to admit that they do exist and common sense does apply in most situations.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Sam1 said:

police station, school, church, mall, your own house... you said previously that it doesn't matter because it is legal, and you took my bait on the school post. That's the point I was trying to get across, everyone has boundaries no matter what they try to project.  It just took a little bit of baiting to get you to admit that they do exist and common sense does apply in most situations.

 

 

Wow, sure you aren't a member of mommies demand action too? And BTW< its legal to openly carry a firearm into a school (with a permit) in MI too. I don't hide the fact I carry a firearm around town here and am amazed how quick to attack people who do on here. I exercise my 2A right as I see fit. Baiting? and admit to what exactly?  I don't go all tactical when I carry, I look good and act politely. Did what they did defy "common sense". To most people it did I can agree. You have to know these guys history to understand what and why they do what they do. Again, If we willingly give up rights while engaged in legal activity we have no hope of ever retaining any of our rights.

Edited by ken56

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