Is the ATF honoring expungements now

[Guest CCI]

<dt>Q: What is a “misdemeanor crime of domestic violence?â€</dt><dd>A “misdemeanor crime of domestic violence†means an offense that:

1. is a misdemeanor under Federal or State law;
   
2. has, as an element, the use or attempted use of physical force, or the threatened use of a deadly weapon; and
   
3. was committed by a current or former spouse, parent, or guardian of the victim, by a person with whom the victim shares a child in common, by a person who is cohabiting with or has cohabited with the victim as a spouse, parent, or guardian, or by a person similarly situated to a spouse, parent, or guardian of the victim.
   

However, a person is not considered to have been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence unless:

1. the person was represented by counsel in the case, or knowingly and intelligently waived the right of counsel in the case; and
   
2. in the case of a prosecution for which a person was entitled to a jury trial in the jurisdiction in which the case was tried, either —
   1. 
      
   2. the case was tried by a jury, or
      
   3. the person knowingly and intelligently waived the right to have the case tried by a jury, by guilty plea or otherwise.
      

In addition, a conviction would not be disabling if it has been expunged or set aside, or is an offense for which the person has been pardoned or has had civil rights restored (if the law of the jurisdiction in which the proceedings were held provides for the loss of civil rights upon conviction for such an offense) unless the pardon, expunction, or restoration of civil rights expressly provides that the person may not ship, transport, possess, or receive firearms, and the person is not otherwise prohibited by the law of the jurisdiction in which the proceedings were held from receiving or possessing firearms.

[18 U.S.C. 921(a)(33), 27 <abbr>CFR</abbr> 478.11]

ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Misdemeanor Crime of Domestic Violence

"Also look at the last question and answer".</dd>

[DaveTN]

The state doesn’t honor them.

[Guest CCI]

The state doesn’t honor them.

Tennessee state doesn't honor expungements?

[DaveTN]

Tennessee state doesn't honor expungements?

Tennessee won’t restore your guns rights on a crime of violence or drugs charges regardless of expungement or pardons.

[Guest CCI]

What if some one out of state moves here?

[DaveTN]

What if some one out of state moves here?

If it shows up in a background check they can’t buy guns. If they were convicted of a felony; they could be arrested for being a felon in possession.

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/2nd-amendment-issues/62707-tennesseann-article-should-pardoned-felon-have-gun-rights-restored.html

[Guest CCI]

Ok, here's the story: Moving to Tennessee from California in January. Convicted of "misdemeanor" domestic violence. Expunged with full gun rights restored! The Feds approved me for a gun transfer, but the state(Calif) denied me, their record of my expungement isn't on record yet!

Will I have a problem in Tennessee with that, owning guns?

[DaveTN]

Ok, here's the story: Moving to Tennessee from California in January. Convicted of "misdemeanor" domestic violence. Expunged with full gun rights restored! The Feds approved me for a gun transfer, but the state(Calif) denied me, their record of my expungement isn't on record yet!

Will I have a problem in Tennessee with that, owning guns?

With gun transfers you have two sets of laws, Federal and State. You must comply fully with the laws of both. If you have read through the thread I linked you will see that Tennessee really doesn’t care if the Feds, the state of CA or anyone else expunged or pardoned anything.

The thing that you may have going for you is that it was a misdemeanor; therefore you don’t have to worry about being arrested for a felon in possession.

You need to talk to a Tennessee attorney that handles these types of cases. I referred a very good friend of mine to one, but he paid $1200 to find out that even with an expungement he couldn’t get his gun rights restored. He could have found that out right here. But he was hopeful a big name attorney could make things happen.

If a domestic violence shows up on your record, yes… the TBI is going to refuse you. They do have an appeal process though. You can have an appeal form ready with all the supporting information on it and fax it if you are refused.

There are at least two attorneys on this forum; they may be listed in the supporting vendor’s forum. If not maybe they will see this and PM you some contact info.

[Guest CCI]

DaveTN, thank you very much for the information and help!

[Guest CCI]

Please read this carefully. According to this Tennessee pdf., (if I haven't read it wrong). I can get a gun with the expungement I have. Please read it and tell me if I'm correct.

http://www.tba2.org/tba_files/AG/2010/ag_10_21.pdf

[Caster]

Hey, It'll cost you $10 to find out.

Just go buy one. If they say you're good, you're good I would say.

[Metalhead]

One of the questions on the 4473 form is "Have you ever been convicted of a crime of domestic violence?"

Whether it is expunged or not, if the answer is yes unfortunately you cannot purchase a firearm.

If you just answer no even if convicted and later expunged, the ATF could consider that lying on a federal form which is a whole nother set of issues. That is how I see it, but I'm sure there are other thoughts on the matter.

Edit: As an afterthought, if expunged it never happened in the eyes of the law? I'm not well versed in such things.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Metalhead

[Guest CCI]

One of the questions on the 4473 form is "Have you ever been convicted of a crime of domestic violence?"

Whether it is expunged or not, if the answer is yes unfortunately you cannot purchase a firearm.

If you just answer no even if convicted and later expunged, the ATF could consider that lying on a federal form which is a whole nother set of issues. That is how I see it, but I'm sure there are other thoughts on the matter.

Edit: As an afterthought, if expunged it never happened in the eyes of the law? I'm not well versed in such things.

Scroll down and read, Exception to 11.c. and 11.i ! Also, Question 11.i. Definition of Misdemeanor Crime of Domestic Violence!

http://www.atf.gov/f...tf-f-4473-1.pdf

Edited March 27, 2012 by CCI

[Oh Shoot]

Scroll down and read, Exception to 11.c. and 11.i ! Also, Question 11.i. Definition of Misdemeanor Crime of Domestic Violence!

http://www.atf.gov/f...tf-f-4473-1.pdf

Again, that's federal. You're going to be in TN.

There is a court case pending here (haven't heard anything about it for awhile, and there's a topic on TGO somewhere) about a fellow pardoned for felony in GA who can't buy a gun after moving to TN, as TN won't recognize it.

Best o' luck...

- OS

[Guest Skeeter]

There is a court case pending here (haven't heard anything about it for awhile, and there's a topic on TGO somewhere) about a fellow pardoned for felony in GA who can't buy a gun after moving to TN, as TN won't recognize it.

- OS

.

Sent back to locale court. Lots on the web.

.

[Mike.357]

You need an attorney versed in TN law.

Armchair commandos here aren't qualified.

[billyscott]

Best answer yet Mike .357.

[Guest Skeeter]

Armchair commandos here

.

I Perfer Barcalounger.

.* of course get legal advise

.

[Oh Shoot]

You need an attorney versed in TN law...

You'll be paying for legal explanations but not necessary to change anything from TN's point of view.

Might as well just do a ten clam 4473 first, see what comes up. If denied, do the appeal, so at least you'll have either/both federal and state reasons for denial first, at least have that information in hand before spending more to see if there's any procedure that can change it.

- OS

[Smith]

We've had quite a few folks buy guns that said they had expungements. Some went straight through, most get denied and then overturned on appeal. Now, that is taking them at their word on the expungement and everything else, but there have been enough that at least a few were true. The other issue is like what Metalhead said about how to answer the 4473 question and how the law views those Q&A.

All that to say ... ask a real lawyer versed in gun law. Stegal comes to mind. He's a supporting vendor here.

[Guest makeMYday]

Question? My wife purchased a handgun on May 1st. 4 days laters she attempted to purchase another handgun and was denied. Upon appeal the TBI explained that she had been convicted, in 2003, of posession of a stolen vehicle, a felony in TN. She was under the impression that the charge had been dropped down to misdemeanor joyriding. How then was she able to purchase the first hand gun and who is at fault?

[Guest bkelm18]

Question? My wife purchased a handgun on May 1st. 4 days laters she attempted to purchase another handgun and was denied. Upon appeal the TBI explained that she had been convicted, in 2003, of posession of a stolen vehicle, a felony in TN. She was under the impression that the charge had been dropped down to misdemeanor joyriding. How then was she able to purchase the first hand gun and who is at fault?

Sounds like a question for a lawyer. Preferably sooner rather than later. If it wasn't dropped down to a misdemeanor, and it's still a felony, she is a felon in possession of a firearm. Which is usually a one-way ticket to the big house.

Edited May 11, 2012 by bkelm18

[TripleDigitRide]

If I understand it correctly, the only expungement that will allow someone to posses a firearm after being charged with a felony is after a pre-trial diversion. A pre-trial diversion doesn't require a guily plea.

[robbiev]

Edit: As an afterthought, if expunged it never happened in the eyes of the law? I'm not well versed in such things.

Don't take my word for it, but I'm reasonably sure that is not correct. I think expungement simply means it no longer shows up on your public record.

[DaveTN]

You can contact the clerk of the court where she was convicted and get notarized copies of the court documents showing the disposition. Might be a small fee. Or she can pay for an FBI background check. Any speculation on whether or not the charge was a felony would be guess work.

As Bklem pointed out, she needs to find out if she is a convicted felon; I believe a "felon in possession" in TN is mandatory prison time, but I’m not sure on that.

Expungement and even pardons don’t cut it in TN if the crime was a crime of violence or involved drugs. A case of a pardon from another state where TN refused to restore gun rights is going through the court now. A friend of mine has a felony from the 80’s involving drugs and a well known gun attorney told him he could get an expungement, but it wouldn’t get his gun rights back in TN.

Edited May 11, 2012 by DaveTN