The MAGNIFICIENT speech of former Vice-Pres. Dick Cheney

[Guest tnvolfan]

Friends, some of you may have been fortunate enough to see and hear the former Vice-President deliver a speech today regarding the water-boarding issue and the steps that the Bush Administration took to keep our country safe after 9/11. This is without question the very best speech I have ever heard in my life of 54 years. Please read it if you didn't get the chance to hear it. It is definitely worth your time.

http://www.aei.org/speech/100050

Best Regards from the TNVOLFAN:)

[musicman]

I'm watching the vids on youtube now, here's the link to part 2 of 4 (the one I'm watching now)

[Guest jth_3s]

the steps that the Bush Administration took to keep our country safe after 9/11.

Like the Patriot Act what a wonderful piece of legislation

[TripleDigitRide]

I love listening to politicians (or ex-politicians) talk to the American people as if they are complete morons.

They can try wrapping it up with a pretty pink bow, give it all kinds of warm and fuzzy names, but torture is torture. By definition, the tactics described in the 'Torture Memos' released by the DOJ are in fact torture. There's no two-ways about it.

Weather or not these tactics should or shouldn't be used is another debate, but I wish they would just call a spade a spade.

Cheney just went on and on about the current administration playing word games with the American people, yet he just made a 35 minute speech doing the very same thing.

And when in the hell are these people gonna to start giving a speech that comes from the heart? Something in their own words. I can understand following along to some bullet points, but do they really need someone to write out their entire speech?

If you watch all four videos, you'll spend 30 of those 35 minutes looking at the top of his fat, bald head, because he can't simply speak his own mind.

[threeshot]

Nice to see Mr. Burns take some time off from the nuclear power plant.

[Defender]

I liked the speech. I wish HE were our President.

[Guest unreconstructed1]

Dick Cheney is in a long and distinguished line of government officials who condone and sanction the use of waterboarding against "terrorists", "dissidents", and "subversives"...

other government entities who likewise sanctioned the practice are:

-The Nazi Gestapo

- The Japanese Kempetai ( Japanese version of the Gestapo)

- The Pinochet Regime in Chile

- The Khmer Rouge

on each instance the U.S. criticized the practice at torture.

the practice was also used by the U.S. previously as well:

- ignoring the fact that the practice was deemed illegal by the U.S. army during the Vietnam war, the practice was used anyway. at least one soldier was subjected to a court martial and discharged due to his use of the practice

- in 1983, a Texas sheriff was convicted for using this practice and sentenced to 10 years.

torture is torture, regardless of who it is used against.

another point to remember: cruel and unusual punishment is forbidden by the constitution, and for good reason.

[Guest justme]

Friends, some of you may have been fortunate enough to see and hear the former Vice-President deliver a speech today regarding the water-boarding issue and the steps that the Bush Administration took to keep our country safe after 9/11. This is without question the very best speech I have ever heard in my life of 54 years. Please read it if you didn't get the chance to hear it. It is definitely worth your time.

http://www.aei.org/speech/100050

Best Regards from the TNVOLFAN:)

So you advocate torture? There are so many things wrong with what happened before and after 9/11 that I simply don't know where to begin.

Suffice it to say, they should not be praised--they should be in jail, along with Gonzalez, and Rice and Ashcroft and the rest of those abominable politicians who have sold this country into the gutter and have done everything they can to sell the US out to the foreign interest groups and the big businesses...

Edited May 25, 2009 by justme

[Guest justme]

I liked the speech. I wish HE were our President.

I don't--he was already President once...and that was more than enough thank you--and we see the disaster this country is in--our Constitution mangled, the Patriot Act, the new FISA act, the warrantless wiretapping, the torture, and the fact that they held at least one AMERICAN citizen in a military brig without access to lawyers for years--if nothing else, that fact alone should be enough to send shivers down your spine.

Edited May 25, 2009 by justme

[Garufa]

I liked the speech. I wish HE were our President.

He was. For Eight years.

[Guest justme]

He was. For Eight years.

sad thing is--the man in the office now isn't any better--politicians are the same, regardless of whether they describe themselves as "democrat" or "republican"...they will both alike sell this country out--one might just do it a little faster than the other...Obama for example in his unyielding desire to sell out our Constitutional right to keep and bear arms--and the fact he, holder and biden are all wanting to do it in the name of Mexico....a politician who wants to curb one right--2A for example is enough to tell me that none are safe...with Bush--he nearly broke this country--I look for Obama to finish the job.

the fact they are talking about "bailing out" the newspapers should also be enough to send shivers down our backs...and then there is the torture, and the lovely "Patriot Act"....the only thing we are missing is a "turn in thy neighbor law"...but I actully remember one early Bush official who actually advocated "turning in thy neighbor"....

we have some lovely people in positions of power in this country....

[Paletiger13]

Amen

[Guest tnvolfan]

So you advocate torture? There are so many things wrong with what happened before and after 9/11 that I simply don't know where to begin.

Suffice it to say, they should not be praised--they should be in jail, along with Gonzalez, and Rice and Ashcroft and the rest of those abominable politicians who have sold this country into the gutter and have done everything they can to sell the US out to the foreign interest groups and the big businesses...

Waterboarding was used on THREE of the most evil and hardened prisoners retained at GITMO in order to obtain information that would prevent another 9/11, or something worse, from happening to Americans. These evil terrorists never gave a second thought to sheering Daniel Pearl's head off, just because he was Jewish. I would showly sheer off these terrorist's nuts if that's what it took to protect American lives, and I would sleep very easy at night having done so. These terrorists should be thankful that it was Americans interrogating them -- if it was a competitive Muslim faction -- that is, one of their own kind, interrogating them, torture would not be a strong enough word to describe what they would do to each other. This is WAR; they condemned innocent American men, women, and children with their lies and actions, and I COMMEND the Bush Administration for doing what it took to protect American lives after 9/11.

[Paletiger13]

Hypotheticaly speaking, what if Bush was the button behind 9/11?

What better reason to enact the Patriot Act than a "threat of terrorism"?

[Paletiger13]

Also hypotheticaly speaking. If it were the case, then they all should be hung for treason!

[Guest justme]

Waterboarding was used on THREE of the most evil and hardened prisoners retained at GITMO in order to obtain information that would prevent another 9/11, or something worse, from happening to Americans.

really? and information obtained through torture is useful how exactly? sooner or later you will tell them anything just to get the pain to quit--even if it meant to kidnapping the Lindberg baby...

These evil terrorists never gave a second thought to sheering Daniel Pearl's head off, just because he was Jewish.

and we never gave a second thought to killing civilians in Iraq either.

I would showly sheer off these terrorist's nuts if that's what it took to protect American lives, and I would sleep very easy at night having done so.

then you should not complain when they do it to our people...like what happened to the blackwater mercs on that bridge in falluja... Since you advocate it--don't complain when it happens to our own people. Don't cry or whine about it--because attitudes like the one you have fuel it.

These terrorists should be thankful that it was Americans interrogating them -- if it was a competitive Muslim faction -- that is, one of their own kind, interrogating them, torture would not be a strong enough word to describe what they would do to each other. This is WAR; they condemned innocent American men, women, and children with their lies and actions, and I COMMEND the Bush Administration for doing what it took to protect American lives after 9/11.

no, this isn't war--war is what happened in 1941--war is where Americans lay waste to entire cities and let loose the dogs of hell and fight like we used to fight and actually kill the enemy....and fyi--we already have sent prisoners to muslim countries for torture--err "interrogation" as you like to call it....and we have kidnapped innocent people and then claim--OOOOOPS, messed that up, and then deny the INNOCENT the ability to sue in court by saying "uh your honor sir, this suit would infringe on "state secrets"....

and let's not forget holding at least 1 American citizen in a military brig without access to counsel...

I don't commend Bush or his click--personally I think they should all be in jail, if for nothing else than the things they have done to this country.

[Guest justme]

I would showly sheer off these terrorist's nuts if that's what it took to protect American lives, and I would sleep very easy at night having done so.

if the government can do it to them-and yes they have tortured prisoners, or as they like to call it "rough interrogation"--they can just as happily do it to you, to me or to anyone...

[Guest bkelm18]

I think we need to get over this "helpless" mentality this country has gotten. I fully stand behind the "enhanced" interrogation of our enemies. If it saves one life then it is completely worth it. If you want things done, you gotta get your hands dirty. Playing patty cake and having tea and crumpets with our enemies isn't going to get you jack sh*t except the view of being soft by our enemies. I really don't understand the argument of "Oh well if they do it to them, whats to stop them from doing it to us?" If you think about that for more than 10 seconds you can realize how foolish a sentiment that really is.

[Bigiron]

Amen, bkelm.

[Guest justme]

I think we need to get over this "helpless" mentality this country has gotten.

you simply can't call it what it is can you? You euphemistically call it "enhanced/rough interrogation"--but you can't call it torture? OR is it not "torture" to you simply because it isn't happening to YOU? Don't complain when it happens to our own citizens then.

I fully stand behind the "enhanced" interrogation of our enemies.

I don't. You call it "enhanced interrogation"--perhaps you would be just as happy if law enforcement in this country should take that up when interrogating our citizens on the streets or in the jails--maybe they should smash a few heads just to get to the truth, or use chemical interrogation, or dogs, or strip the people naked and stack their bodies for the cameras like they did at Abu Gharib? The ends justify the means yes? Criminals are just as much the enemy of civilized society as any other criminal--criminals are criminals after all. Now if it gets criminals off the streets it's worth it yes? The ends justify the means? This is how you justify it?

If it saves one life then it is completely worth it.

I'm sure that is exactly what a certain Austrian probably said in 1939...

If you want things done, you gotta get your hands dirty. Playing patty cake and having tea and crumpets with our enemies isn't going to get you jack sh*t except the view of being soft by our enemies.

Then how about we quit making pretenses of how this is a war and go back to killing the enemy--meaning laying waste to entire cities. We play games because this country has lost it's will to actually fight a war. We have not truly "won" a war since 1865--and we only won it then because we were fighting our own people--and even then the better side lost that war. We have won BATTLES, but we ultimately lost every war since, and history backs this up.

I really don't understand the argument of "Oh well if they do it to them, whats to stop them from doing it to us?" If you think about that for more than 10 seconds you can realize how foolish a sentiment that really is.

It's quite simple really--the government sees that the sheep give the high five to torturing "an enemy"--but who designates the person as the "enemy"? The government run by people who would just as soon sell you out as look at you--it isn't that difficult for the government to designate an American citizen as an "enemy combatant"--thus stripping you of your rights--what you have left of them anyway, under the Constitution. People whine and complain about how the government is out of control--with the MIAC report, illegal wiretapping, the Patriot act, the new FISA act, and the other abuses, and wanting to strip us of our right to keep and bear arms and the NUMEROUS instances of le abuse in this country and then we turn directly around and give a BIG thumbs up to torture...people torture is TORTURE--whether they do it to them, or to YOU, it is the EXACT SAME THING....and if they can do it to them--they can do it to US..and they will.

Edited May 25, 2009 by justme

[timcalhoun]

So, I'm wondering how a person who believes in self defense and maybe has a carry permit and would be willing to use deadly force to protect his or herself or maybe others has a problem with water boarding?

On one hand you are perfectly willing to kill someone to save your own life but are utterly opposed to putting someone in discomfort to save tens of thousands.

I believe if you are charged with the protection of the US and her people you should be willing to do the same things you would do in order to protect yourself, your children, and your family. If not you should get another job.

[Guest justme]

So, I'm wondering how a person who believes in self defense and maybe has a carry permit and would be willing to use deadly force to protect his or herself or maybe others has a problem with water boarding?

it is called torture--T O R T U R E...hurting a defenseless and physically unarmed person is a damn sight different than defending your home from a violent attack, or against a serial killer, or home invasion/drug dealers, and so on.

On one hand you are perfectly willing to kill someone to save your own life but are utterly opposed to putting someone in discomfort to save tens of thousands.

I'm willing to defend my physical self/family. I am unwilling to sacrifice the higher ideals that this country was founded on in order to obtain some false feeling of state provided "safety". While some of you seem perfectly willing to sacrifice the Constitutional ideals in the name of safety and security...

I believe if you are charged with the protection of the US and her people you should be willing to do the same things you would do in order to protect yourself, your children, and your family. If not you should get another job.

hurting a home invader who kicks in your door and pulls a gun on you in the middle of the night is NOT the same thing as torturing a person into confessing to some crime. But some of you seem perfectly willing to surrender the Constitution in the name of "national security" or under the pretense of obtaining some feeling of state provided "safety" or "security".

Edited May 25, 2009 by justme

[Guest justme]

I believe if you are charged with the protection of the US and her people you should be willing to do the same things you would do in order to protect yourself, your children, and your family. If not you should get another job.

Lets take this further--lets take it domestically for a moment--LE for example is "charged with preserving peace and order"--why not unrestrain them and let them use torture to gain confessions and obtain information? Why not, for example, simply allow LE, both local/federal/state to waterboard suspects, use cramped boxes that don't allow the person to sit down/stand up, deprivation of light and food, beatings, use of dogs, along with chemical interrogation--I mean hey, they are charged with "protecting" the people--so take off the restraints from them and let them go about beating and torturing people to gain confessions?

Are you willing to give up YOUR 8th Amendment protection? How about your 4th? 5th? Are you willing to allow your government to use the same tactics on our own people? They can do it to them--they can do it to us..there is no difference in it, torture is torture.

[TripleDigitRide]

Lets take this further--lets take it domestically for a moment--LE for example is "charged with preserving peace and order"--why not unrestrain them and let them use torture to gain confessions and obtain information? Why not, for example, simply allow LE, both local/federal/state to waterboard suspects, use cramped boxes that don't allow the person to sit down/stand up, deprivation of light and food, beatings, use of dogs, along with chemical interrogation--I mean hey, they are charged with "protecting" the people--so take off the restraints from them and let them go about beating and torturing people to gain confessions?

Are you willing to give up YOUR 8th Amendment protection? How about your 4th? 5th? Are you willing to allow your government to use the same tactics on our own people? They can do it to them--they can do it to us..there is no difference in it, torture is torture.

Good point.

I was talking with a friend about that very subject.

Why are these tactics only used at the Federal/Military level? Surely our local authorities could benefit from the same tactics.

Just imagine how many murderers, child molester and rapists they could put behind bars with a little waterboarding and sleep deprivation.

[Guest justme]

Why are these tactics only used at the Federal/Military level? Surely our local authorities could benefit from the same tactics.

you're joking right?

Just imagine how many murderers, child molester and rapists they could put behind bars with a little waterboarding and sleep deprivation.

we have ways of making you talk....even if you didn't do it--you'll still confess to it, because before we're done you'll scream and beg to confess....

Edited May 25, 2009 by justme