Gun Malfunction due to Old Ammo?

[sparksjr]

Went to the range tonight to fire some handguns for the first time in about 2 years. The guns I took were an Auto ordinance ZG 51 (45 cal) and a 41 cal Desert Eagle (Magnum Research I think). Anyway, both guns had consistent malfunctions. With almost every other shot, the 45 would not eject the used cartridge and would jam with either the old cart in the barrel or the old cart partially out but held in by the new cart loading up. The 41 would eject the old cart, but would not load the new cart. The odd thing is the gun would slide back into the ready position but would not chamber the new cart.

The ammo I am using is pretty old, more than 5 years old at least. A friend of mine told me that this could be a factor in these guns acting up. I admit I dont know mcuh, but I guess this makes sense. I really hope you guys can confirm the possibility of this as the guns had been freshly cleaned and oiled so my only other thought is the guns are just messed up. I know my dad shot the 45 a ton when he was alive, but the desert eagle was never shot to my knowledge.

I should know better than to shoot ammo that is this old, but I have sooo freaking much of it I really hate to get rid of it.

I do have some newer ammo that I am going to try tomorrow...

Thanks in advance for any help or advice.

Also, I apologize if this is in the wrong section but I couldn't find a "help" section

Edited December 12, 2009 by sparksjr

[Guest mikedwood]

Did you clean and oil the guns before you took them out? That's the 1st thing I would do after more than a couple months in storage. Unless it was a Glock then I wouldn't worry about it

[SpartaTN]

Limp wristing maybe? (and no, I'm not questioning your manhood....)

[bvarnell]

It sounds to me like you may have a magazine problem (bad/weak springs) and maybe limp wristing. Could also be old/gunked up grease or oil.

Unless your ammo has been stored outside, I wouldn't worry too much about the age of it. There is plenty of 50 yr. old military surplus ammo being shot every day. It is perfectly good for plinking/target pratice.

[JeffL]

I've opened cans of ammo older than you, they all work %100. Not sure what your problem was but ammo usually keeps pretty well unless it had gotten wet and was corroded.

[Retired Navy GMC]

If your firearms sit for a long period of time, I would do a pre-fire check on them. This includes a thorough cleaning prior to shooting. Old oil and dust can gum up the mechanicals without you realizing it. I honestly doubt it was the ammo. I have shot ammo that is older than me and it worked perfectly.

Another way you can check to see if everything is working properly (extractor, ejector) is to use dummy rounds. Cycle dummy rounds through your gun to make sure the extractor and ejector are working properly before going to the range. May save you some frustration.

2 years is too long to let your guns sit. Get out to the range more.

[sparksjr]

Thanks for the responses. On one hand I am glad I dont have to toss a bunch of ammo but on the other hand that means I have a different problem...lol

The 45 was pretty dry when i took it apart alst night after shooting so she got a full makeover. I went ahead and did the same to the 41 but it was still nicely oiled. Hopefully the cleaning and oiling late last night will help. I have also changed the clip in the 41 since it wouldnt load the next round...hoping the clip in the 45 is OK since it wasnt having a problem getting the next one ready (not to mention I dont have an extra 45 clip ).

I am hoping these things will make it go smoother today, combined with a concentrated effort not to limp wrist it. I had lurked on this forum before I shot yesterday and read about avoiding limp wristing so i tried not to yesterday...but after 2 years or so of not shooting I am sure I still did somewhat.

Thanks again for the help! Wish me luck!

[sparksjr]

2 years is too long to let your guns sit. Get out to the range more.

I hear ya, I have to admit life got in the way and my firearms suffered. I did keep em in a cozy safe with a mini dehumidifier though! lol

I am making it a point to shoot and clean all 22 of em over the next month or so and then again this spring/summer and on and on...

My sincere apologies...I have been an irresponsible caretaker

[Guest BigShot]

Can't say much about your having old ammo or firearms you haven't taken to the range in a while. I'm guilty of both and trying to correct my ways. Dug out some OLD ammo from 25 years ago, reloads for a young man, that have been at room temp and they shot just fine.

Been having good luck with a thicker shooters grease instead of oil because it doesn't just leak out before I take a range trip. Stays slick a while longer while shooting too.

[Guest c.a.s.]

From hearsay, the Desert Eagle is extremely picky about magazines and how the magazine sits in the well.

[oldogy]

IMO and IM experience, the age of the ammunition has little to do with how it fires. Condition, corrosion, discolored lead on the real old stuff, don't mess with it. My experience is that old ammunition either goes bang or is a dud.

oldogy, who has cautiously shot some very old ammunition.

Edited December 12, 2009 by oldogy

[Tnscooter63]

Limp wristing maybe? (and no, I'm not questioning your manhood....)

What would this have to do with ftf or fte? Scott

[Guest BigShot]

You are usually running a 16-18 pound spring in a 45 to hold everything tight to the lugs. My understanding is if your grip and wrist have less staying power than that, the whole pistol will move without cycling the slide rearward causing a failure to eject or extract.

Don't know what spring Eagles run in a .41 but the same principle.

[Tnscooter63]

You are usually running a 16-18 pound spring in a 45 to hold everything tight to the lugs. My understanding is if your grip and wrist have less staying power than that, the whole pistol will move without cycling the slide rearward causing a failure to eject or extract.

Don't know what spring Eagles run in a .41 but the same principle.

I did not know this, thanks

[K191145]

I saw R. Lee Ermy on Mail Call a while back fire a device on either a 03 or 1917 Springfield that made the rifle a semi-auto. It used special ammo, not 30-06. Every round fired perfectly if I remember right, the ammo was made during WW1. 5 year old ammo is new ammo.

[gregintenn]

Bad Ammo!!!!!!!!!!!! Send it to me and I'll dispose of it for you. Since you're new here, I'll even get rid of it for you free of charge! Welcome to the board.

[sparksjr]

well the wifey kept me out all day Christmas shopping so i didnt get to fire them up today. Hopefully will give it a go tomorrow and report back in.

Thanks again to all who have responded (and I think i'll dispose of the ammo myself )

[Guest c.a.s.]

That would be the PEDERSEN DEVICE, it shot a 32 caiber round ???

Wasn't it just plain .30?

[K191145]

That would be the PEDERSEN DEVICE, it shot a 32 caiber round ???

It actually worked pretty good from the show. Seeing that old ammo fire gave me some extra confidence in ammo reliability.

[Guest Buzz87]

Went to the range tonight to fire some handguns for the first time in about 2 years. The guns I took were an Auto ordinance ZG 51 (45 cal) and a 41 cal Desert Eagle (Magnum Research I think). Anyway, both guns had consistent malfunctions. With almost every other shot, the 45 would not eject the used cartridge and would jam with either the old cart in the barrel or the old cart partially out but held in by the new cart loading up. The 41 would eject the old cart, but would not load the new cart. The odd thing is the gun would slide back into the ready position but would not chamber the new cart.

The ammo I am using is pretty old, more than 5 years old at least. A friend of mine told me that this could be a factor in these guns acting up. I admit I dont know mcuh, but I guess this makes sense. I really hope you guys can confirm the possibility of this as the guns had been freshly cleaned and oiled so my only other thought is the guns are just messed up. I know my dad shot the 45 a ton when he was alive, but the desert eagle was never shot to my knowledge.

I should know better than to shoot ammo that is this old, but I have sooo freaking much of it I really hate to get rid of it.

I do have some newer ammo that I am going to try tomorrow...

Thanks in advance for any help or advice.

Also, I apologize if this is in the wrong section but I couldn't find a "help" section

I'm going with bad springs in the magazines. Unless your ammo is visibly corroded, there is almost no way it can be too old. Did either of these guns sit loaded for an extended period? That can weaken the springs. I have heard and try to follow the 'rotate them out' method for loaded mags. Also, when you cleaned the guns, did you clean the mags. That may help. Just take them apart and clean the inside with a silicon rag(available at Walmart or most any sporting goods stores) Good luck!!

[sparksjr]

I'm going with bad springs in the magazines. Unless your ammo is visibly corroded, there is almost no way it can be too old. Did either of these guns sit loaded for an extended period? That can weaken the springs. I have heard and try to follow the 'rotate them out' method for loaded mags. Also, when you cleaned the guns, did you clean the mags. That may help. Just take them apart and clean the inside with a silicon rag(available at Walmart or most any sporting goods stores) Good luck!!

the 45 has been in my nightstand loaded for a while, but the 41 was not loaded. It's wierd cause the 41 wont load the next shell but the 45 tries to load the next shell but cant because the last shell wont eject. Seems like the 41 would be the one with a bad spring? Anyway, I am switching clips with the 41 and will try to clean the 45 clip. Thanks to the crappy weather I have plenty of tme to work on and clean them since I cant go out back and shoot!

[1gewehr]

Doubtful that it's ammo. I have what's left of a case of .30-06 dated 1917 I bought in 1983. I've never had a single round give a problem.

If the weapon is not clean and well-lubed, then there is no way to know the true issue.

Desert Eagles are known for being finicky.

IIRC the ZG1 was a compact model. The symptoms you describe are the classic 'limp-wristing' symptoms. As recommended above, try keeping your wrists stiffly against the recoil. If that doesn't help, you will need either more powerful ammo or a less powerful recoil spring.

[Idaho]

I agree with above posters. My cousin had a DE 50 and it would misfeed every other round when he shot it but worked fine for me.

I think you just need to hang on tighter. If the gun moves too much in your hand you won't fully compress the springs and the empty may not eject or the slide may not move back far enough to catch the next round.

Another test would be to have someone else fire them and see they act differently.

As far as lube goes I used to have a buddy that would say your 45 should spit oil in your face when you shoot.

[sparksjr]

Victory!

Got the guns out today and after reading all your suggestions they both work fine! I would have to say it was a combo of the guns needing cleaned/oiled and a classic case of a limp wrist (been out of shooting a while).

Thanks for all the tips and for your patience. Gonna have to goto Gunny's this week and get some practice in...permit class in 1 month