For the Libertarians Planning to write in Ron Paul

[Oh Shoot]

It has to start somewhere. You expect >40% to just pop out of nowhere overnight? What does the constant belittling of voting third party forment?

You're right. Doesn't matter a whit either way, as per usual.

Last time it (sort of, maybe) did was Perot in '92 and that didn't crank up anything afterwards.

- OS

Edited August 3, 2012 by OhShoot

[plank white]

Good interview with Gary Johnson on the Colbert Report where he mentions how some of the Latest Polls claim upward of 82% of americans have said they would consider voting third party

who knows if that is anywhere near true or not but , it is still a great interview hell I think colbert and stewart are the only two news anchors worth watching anymore anyways http://www.colbertna...12/gary-johnson

Edited August 3, 2012 by plank white

[sigmtnman]

You're right. Doesn't matter a whit either way, as per usual.

Last time it (sort of, maybe) did was Perot in '92 and that didn't crank up anything afterwards.

- OS

Definitely a long row to hoe.

[JAB]

That is incorrect, and I'm about tired, frankly, of reading that over and over.

So am I. I hear over and over, in every election, that if you don't vote for X then you are voting for Y, even if you vote for Z. That is total bull. It could just as easily be said that any vote that isn't for Obama is a vote for Romney so that should make these guys happy, right?

In fact, I have heard that same line of bull crap in every election since I've been old enough to vote. C'mon, guys, get some new material, already. The old, 'use scare tactics to convince people to vote for our guy even against their own consciences' nonsense is worn out, tired and needs to be tossed on the scrap heap. Honestly, this 'either/or' crap is just another attempt to keep us firmly entrenched in a two party system. Will a third party candidate win this election? Chances are slim to none and slim just left town - but as long as people fear to vote their conscience rather than doggedly voting for a Repocrat they don't really even like just so that darned Dempublican doesn't win then we are never going to get anything but what we deserve - the same, old crap from the DempoRepublicrat party.

See, what the Republicans and Dems have finally done is that they each have a candidate that I view as equally bad. In the past, I have generally held my nose and voted for the one of the two, big party candidates that I believed was the least bad (sometimes that was a Republican and sometimes that has been a Democrat.) I have voted for an alternate candidate in a few state or local elections but in the presidential elections I have, thus far, forced myself to choose the least bad candidate from the Republican or Democrat side. There is no least bad this time - or at least not enough difference to convince me it really matters. I won't say that I'd rather see Obama re-elected than see Romney win (although that would give the R's a chance to get it right in 2016 rather than trying to re-elect Romney) but I honestly feel strongly enough against both of them that I don't feel much differently about Romney winning than I do about Obama being re-elected.

Edited August 3, 2012 by JAB

[plank white]

So am I. I hear over and over, in every election, that if you don't vote for X then you are voting for Y, even if you vote for Z. That is total bull. It could just as easily be said that any vote that isn't for Obama is a vote for Romney so that should make these guys happy, right?

In fact, I have heard that same line of bull crap in every election since I've been old enough to vote. C'mon, guys, get some new material, already. The old, 'use scare tactics to convince people to vote for our guy even against their own consciences' nonsense is worn out, tired and needs to be tossed on the scrap heap. Honestly, this 'either/or' crap is just another attempt to keep us firmly entrenched in a two party system. Will a third party candidate win this election? Chances are slim to none and slim just left town - but as long as people fear to vote their conscience rather than doggedly voting for a Repocrat they don't really even like just so that darned Dempublican doesn't win then we are never going to get anything but what we deserve - the same, old crap from the DempoRepublicrat party.

See, what the Republicans and Dems have finally done is that they each have a candidate that I view as equally bad. In the past, I have generally held my nose and voted for the one of the two, big party candidates that I believed was the least bad (sometimes that was a Republican and sometimes that has been a Democrat.) I have voted for an alternate candidate in a few state or local elections but in the presidential elections I have, thus far, forced myself to choose the least bad candidate from the Republican or Democrat side. There is no least bad this time - or at least not enough difference to convince me it really matters. I won't say that I'd rather see Obama re-elected than see Romney win (although that would give the R's a chance to get it right in 2016 rather than trying to re-elect Romney) but I honestly feel strongly enough against both of them that I don't feel much differently about Romney winning than I do about Obama being re-elected.

Nice .

[Guest ThePunisher]

People can vote for their principles, but the fact is and everybody knows it, that a vote for third party candidate is actually a wasted vote because a third party candidate ain't gonna win. In this election, a third party vote will only ensure an Obama re-election, and you know it. So it still boils down to the fact of who do you prefer, Obama or Romney.

[Oh Shoot]

People can vote for their principles, but the fact is and everybody knows it, that a vote for third party candidate is actually a wasted vote because a third party candidate ain't gonna win. In this election, a third party vote will only ensure an Obama re-election, and you know it. So it still boils down to the fact of who do you prefer, Obama or Romney.

Ah, relax some, yer gonna blow a fuse.

GJ will get the same ole half percent or so. Total votes don't matter, only state by state. I'll eat your hat if he makes a diff here. Only possible question I see is whether it could make a favorite son diff in his home of New Mexico if it turned out really tight there. Possibly, probably not.

At any rate, ain't likely anyone voting in NM you can preach to here.

- OS

Edited August 3, 2012 by OhShoot

[RobertNashville]

...I hear over and over, in every election, that if you don't vote for X then you are voting for Y, even if you vote for Z. That is total bull...

The statement isn't exactly accurate but I think the message it's trying to convey is true.

In any election where the candidate with the most votes in total wins, then any votes cast for a candidate with no or negligible chances to win decreases the number of votes the winning candidate needs to have; mathematically, there is no getting around that. so, the question is not whether a vote for a third party candidate impacts the the major candidates; the question is by how much.

If you were going to vote for Obama but instead you vote for candidate X then it helps Romney (if ever so slightly)...if you would otherwise vote for Romney but you vote for candidate X then you help Obama (by that same slight amount).

Of course, there is really no way to know with certainty who some group of people would have voted for if the didn't vote for Obama or Romney.

It's also, given the small number of people who will vote for a third party or write-in, unlikely that voting for a third party this time will have any more impact on the outcome than it usually does; at least I hope so.

[mav]

I have been so busy that I don't get to comment as much as I used to. My $0.02, vote for who you like. If Johnson, Paul, or whoever is your man, then vote for them. It is by no means whatsoever a vote for Obama, but it is one less vote that he will have to overcome Still, if Obama wins reelection, the only people responsible for it will be those who actually voted for him.

[daddyo]

This is the PERFECT year to vote one's conscience, since we know an independent candidate has minimal chance, and if it's between Romney and Barry, many of us don't care which one wins, because they're the same. 4 more years of ODumbo or 4 years of Mitt - the results will be the SAME.

[Guest FIST]

People can vote for their principles, but the fact is and everybody knows it, that a vote for third party candidate is actually a wasted vote because a third party candidate ain't gonna win. In this election, a third party vote will only ensure an Obama re-election, and you know it. So it still boils down to the fact of who do you prefer, Obama or Romney.

The statement isn't exactly accurate but I think the message it's trying to convey is true.

In any election where the candidate with the most votes in total wins, then any votes cast for a candidate with no or negligible chances to win decreases the number of votes the winning candidate needs to have; mathematically, there is no getting around that. so, the question is not whether a vote for a third party candidate impacts the the major candidates; the question is by how much.

If you were going to vote for Obama but instead you vote for candidate X then it helps Romney (if ever so slightly)...if you would otherwise vote for Romney but you vote for candidate X then you help Obama (by that same slight amount).

Of course, there is really no way to know with certainty who some group of people would have voted for if the didn't vote for Obama or Romney.

It's also, given the small number of people who will vote for a third party or write-in, unlikely that voting for a third party this time will have any more impact on the outcome than it usually does; at least I hope so.

Punisher, Is no vote a wasted vote? Am I better off not to vote since a third party has zero chance? What if I had planned on voting for Obama and then voted third party, would that make you feel better? Defeatism = Acceptance of or resignation to the prospect of defeat. I was always told to never accept defeat. Maybe my Brothers and Sisters that I have fought beside in Iraq and Afghanistan should have just gave up while there. We knew the war wouldn't be won by the small part we played. Great outlook, and with it, no change will ever take place. I can see George Washington at Valley Forge during the winter, walking around like Eeyore, telling everyone "why keep trying, defeat is inevitable, the British just have too many soldiers and too much money"

Robert, It may be a slim vote now, but It will always be a slim vote if we never make the change.

[enfield]

There are so damned many ignorant voters who believe that a vote for a 3rd party candidate with NO chance of being elected is an effective protest policy that I despair of retaining my freedom.

You damned fools get what you deserve, and the rest of us get what YOU deserve also.

Obama is smarter than all of you put together.

[sigmtnman]

There are so damned many ignorant voters who believe that a vote for a 3rd party candidate with NO chance of being elected is an effective protest policy that I despair of retaining my freedom.

You damned fools get what you deserve, and the rest of us get what YOU deserve also.

Obama is smarter than all of you put together.

Now include something about Polk county.

[Guest FIST]

There are so damned many ignorant voters who believe that a vote for a 3rd party candidate with NO chance of being elected is an effective protest policy that I despair of retaining my freedom.

You damned fools get what you deserve, and the rest of us get what YOU deserve also.

Obama is smarter than all of you put together.

It's not a protest. The idea is to stop voting on turds just because they are less of a turd than the other. You can't fix it if you don't try.

Fools? Do you know me? I don't know you and have never once referred to anyone voting for a Republican or Democrat as a Fool. Maybe I took it the wrong way, but I do believe you called me a fool. If I'm mistaken then I'm sorry. If not and you would like to discuss this in person PM me.

How is there so much opposition to voting how you want? I personally enjoy the fact that I can vote for whoever the hell I feel like. If Obama getting a second term makes you feel that we will lose all our freedoms, then maybe that's what this country needs as a wake up call. Or will we all just give up because we don't have a chance? Ask any Veteran here how they feel about quitting on something they believe to be right. Defeat and Quit make me sick. With the exception of Oh Shoot and maybe 1 or 2 others, I haven't seen a single person give me a valid reason not to vote how I want to.

Anyone? Anyone want to bring out facts? Anyone want to tell me that change in the political party system isn't possible ever? For every item you tell me is impossible, I can give you 2 that where thought of as "impossible" and happened.

All I smell is the nasty stink of quitters and defeatist.

Disclaimer: If the shoe fits, wear it.

Edited August 4, 2012 by FIST

[sigmtnman]

The way I see it is that all you partisan folk are what has ruined our country. The democraps want to regulate it's hated stuff and give money to it's pet people. The republicants want to regulate it's hated stuff and give money to it's pet people. All the while since I've been alive everyone votes for the lessor of evils.

Accept responsibility for years of supporting parties that don't have your best interest in mind.

[Guest ThePunisher]

Ah, relax some, yer gonna blow a fuse.

- OS

Yeah, I guess I need to become youthfully optimistic like some here.

I'm trying to reconcile myself to some of the beliefs here that there is no difference between Obama and Romney. I can't believe we're spending all this money having an election if there is truly no differences between the two. Why doesn't Obama make a deal with Romney and make him the VP, make RP the Surgeon General and GJ the Drug Czar and then everybody should be happy.

Edited August 4, 2012 by ThePunisher

[Guest ThePunisher]

The way I see it is that all you partisan folk are what has ruined our country.

I'm glad to know that you are totally blameless for the woes of our country.

[G27]

Makes me chuckle that voting for the status quo, which has screwed us over and over for decades, is somehow the 'smart' decision.

Y'all can bash me all you wish, I couldn't care less - but until you realize voting for the same crap over and over and expecting something other than crap is fruitless, we're all stuck with Groundhog Day.

Not sure why I even posted, none of the panicked party voters here will think about breaking the pattern for half a second...

Edited August 4, 2012 by crimsonaudio

[Oh Shoot]

I'm trying to reconcile myself to some of the beliefs here that there is no difference between Obama and Romney.

There is a huge difference.

At this point, whether any admin can save America from reaching The Big Pain, or even set a course for future admins to do so, is unknown.

But the difference in philosophy is stark, and the clearest in my lifetime. Depending on the final makeup of Congress to set the speed, even that most imperfect captain Mitt Romney has a shot at avoiding the iceberg. BHO and his minions have none.

This time around, the American electorate may not get all it deserves from a Romney admin, but it will deserve absolutely all it gets from Obama's.

- OS

[plank white]

There is a huge difference.

At this point, whether any admin can save America from reaching The Big Pain, or even set a course for future admins to do so, is unknown.

But the difference in philosophy is stark, and the clearest in my lifetime. Depending on the final makeup of Congress to set the speed, even that most imperfect captain Mitt Romney has a shot at avoiding the iceberg. BHO and his minions have none.

This time around, the American electorate may not get all it deserves from a Romney admin, but it will deserve absolutely all it gets from Obama's.

- OS

[sigmtnman]

I'm glad to know that you are totally blameless for the woes of our country.

Where are my greens damnit?

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Good interview with Gary Johnson on the Colbert Report where he mentions how some of the Latest Polls claim upward of 82% of americans have said they would consider voting third party

who knows if that is anywhere near true or not but , it is still a great interview hell I think colbert and stewart are the only two news anchors worth watching anymore anyways http://www.colbertna...12/gary-johnson

News anchors? They're Comedians!

[plank white]

News anchors? They're Comedians!

LOL its a shame huh

[plank white]

LOL its a shame huh

oops double tap MY BAD Edited August 4, 2012 by plank white

[RobertNashville]

...Robert, It may be a slim vote now, but It will always be a slim vote if we never make the change.

I can't argue with the statement but what empirical evidence do you have to think that it will ever change?

I've been voting in Presidential elections since 1973; the first year I was old enough to vote. Since then, I've I've never missed voting in a general election and I think only once have I missed a primary, even when deployed. I'm not a political junkie but because I tend to hold to specific political beliefs I've tended to watch what happens closely and occasionally I've involved myself when I thought an issue or a candidate justified my time. In all the years I've watched and in all the history I've looked at I've see nothing to lead me to conclude that a third party (or an additional party to the two big ones we have) will ever be more than an insignificant blip on the radar screen.

To be blunt, our system of elections simply doesn't seem geared to more than two parties....it might work in other countries but I don't see it happening here.

The Republican platform pretty much satisfies my political concerns; not perfectly but close enough and probably as close as any third party would. Most of what is wrong with the Republican party are those who control it...who are more married to the party than they are to principles. However, the infrastructure is there...as such, it seems to me that the most logical course of action is to keep pushing, contributing to and voting for candidates that most closely align with my political views; who will put principle ahead of party and the more true Constitutional Conservatives we can get elected the less relevant the Republican power brokers become.

So, if you want to vote for a third party or try to get a third party going...that's up to you, I just don't think it's the way to effect real change.

Edited August 4, 2012 by RobertNashville