Troubling news for the Trayvon Martin camp

[RobertNashville]

...If someone punches me, my first instinct is to punch back. I'm not going to get pommeled and not get a lick in.

Yeah...well...most of us aren't the bad ass you "obviously" are ;)

[RobertNashville]

Maybe DAVES this will shed some light on your "question"...this is from Zimmerman's statement to police the night it happened...does is sound like we should automatically assume he "should" have had defensive wounds or maybe, he was too busy just trying to stay alive he didn't have time to get his "licks in" like you would have done...
 

Zimmerman:  I, it was dark.  I didn’t even see him getting ready to punch me.  As soon as he punched me, I fell backwards, um, into the grass and he grabbed me.  He was wailing on my head and I, then, I started yelling help.  When I started yelling help, he grabbed my head and he started hitting my head into the– I, I tried to sit up and I, and yell for help and then he grabbed my head and started hitting it into the sidewalk.  Um, when he started doing that, I slid into the grass to try and get out from under him and so that he would stop hitting my head into the sidewalk and I’m still yelling for help.  And, I could see people looking and some guy yells out, I’m calling 911 and I said, “Help me, help me.  He’s killing me.”  And he puts his hand on my nose and mouth and he says, “You’re gonna die tonight,” and I don’t remember much after that.  I just remember, I couldn’t breath and then he still kept trying to hit my head against the pavement or I don’t know if there was a sign or what it was. So, I just, uh, when I slid, my jacket and my shirt came up and when he said, “You’re gonna die tonight,” I felt his hand go down on my side and I thought he was going for my firearm.  So I grabbed it immediately and as he banged my head again, I just pulled out my firearm and shot him.

 
A few lines later he recalled:
 
Quote

Zimmerman:  I didn't know what he was hitting [me with].  It felt like he was hitting me with bricks.

Edited June 14, 2013 by RobertNashville

[Sam1]

But he had the strength and stamina to wrestle TM's arms and keep him from getting his gun, yet have the mindset (was he not dazed, shocked or anything, right?) to draw his gun and shoot the kid? According to Zman, (yes I seen the pictures, we are currently using them as training aids) he was slugged in the face, received a brain numbing punch, then said TM got on top of him and beat his head off the sidewalk multiple times. Yet he had the strength to fight to keep his gun, but could roll 140 pounds off him? I don't buy it! And by the way he wasn't "bleeding out".

If someone punches me, my first instinct is to punch back. I'm not going to get pommeled and not get a lick in. Then when all else fails.....

Dave S

You were in the military correct? Remember how almost every hand to hand maneuver involved wrestling when trying to regain control of the situation when no weapons were involved?

That alone validates Z's story enough for me to believe he was engaged in the defensive side of a fight. If Z would've had knuckle bruises and TM had facial damage, then I may side with your opinion a little more.

[Guest nra37922]

Show trial to mollify the unwashed, ignorant OHole voters. 

[DaveS]

Yeah...well...most of us aren't the bad ass you "obviously" are ;)

Really Robert?

 

Dave S

[DaveS]

Do to the personal attacks from the usual, I'm withdrawing my participation from this thread.

 

Dave S

[DaveTN]

Do to the personal attacks from the usual, I'm withdrawing my participation from this thread.

 

Dave S

I have learned to try (although I know it is sometimes very hard) to not shoot back when fired upon with personal attacks; you are not allowed to do that. Some here are more concerned on making assumptions or WAG’s about why you are saying what you are than in discussing the issues. Ignore them, it isn’t worth it. It’s obvious to the readers who is discussing the issues and who is simply trying to make themselves look good through personal attacks; it doesn’t work most of the readers here are smarter than that.

 

If they silence you with their rhetoric, in their minds they have won some kind of standing. They have, but not the way they think.

 

 

 

 

There is no way you can withdraw your participation; it’s impossible.

[Dolomite_supafly]

So DaveS question for you.
 
You posted this in another thread:

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/65835-must-a-person-take-a-butt-whoopin-before-you-pull-a-firearm/page-3

In my personal opinion, and my opinion alone, hands and feet are deadly weapons. Anyone who tries to use either one or both on me in an aggressive manner is going to cause me to do everything within my power to let the air out of them!

 

So how is it OK for you to "let the air out of them" and Zimmerman is in the wrong for doing exactly the same thing? 

 

You have acknowledged several times in this thread that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and he let the air out of Trayvon for using his hands in an aggressive manner. If it is legal for you to do it why is it now illegal for someone else to do it?

 

[Spots]

Knots on the back of his head, broken nose, red marks and scratches on his face/side of his head... Oh and the cuts and abrasions that were bleeding out.


If someone gets attacked unless you're a badass cage fighter, you're going to go into defensive mode, not offensive so Z is not going to have busted up knuckles and a strained wrist from punching back

But he had the strength and stamina to wrestle TM's arms and keep him from getting his gun, yet have the mindset (was he not dazed, shocked or anything, right?) to draw his gun and shoot the kid? According to Zman, (yes I seen the pictures, we are currently using them as training aids) he was slugged in the face, received a brain numbing punch, then said TM got on top of him and beat his head off the sidewalk multiple times. Yet he had the strength to fight to keep his gun, but could roll 140 pounds off him? I don't buy it! And by the way he wasn't "bleeding out".

If someone punches me, my first instinct is to punch back. I'm not going to get pommeled and not get a lick in. Then when all else fails.....

Dave S

Just as a side note. I dont know how much ground work you have ever done, but someone with good balance in the mount is almost impossible to get off your chest. I weigh 260 lbs and I'm 6'1" and have a black belt in judo with 17 years experince, as well as black belts in other arts. My dad weighs 160 lbs and has a 6th degree black belt in judo. if he gains mount its almost impossible to get him off. But, if you can keep calm, it is not impossible to draw a weapon. I know, Ive practiced that exact scenario with blades and firearms, shirt and long gun. So yes, I do believe even with two untrained indivduals, it is possible to not be able to get someone off, but still draw and fire. As far as defense wounds, if he got attacked with his guard down, and it went straight to the ground, he would not be able to get any power behind strikes from underneath. He would have been covering his face, pushing and trying to draw his weapon.

As far as not getting any licks in. Ive been in my far share of bar brawls and back alley fights. If you hit someone hard enough the first lick, they wont know which way is up, much less have time to fight back before it goes to the ground. And that was mutal combat, a sucker punch would be worse.

Sent from the backwoods of Nowhere
Edited June 14, 2013 by Spots

[KKing]

Do to the personal attacks from the usual, I'm withdrawing my participation from this thread.

Dave S

You'll be back. I know that's twice you've said the same in this thread alone. Your "proof" gets disproven, then you either resort to name calling or asking if someone has been a LEO or EMT to make your "opinion" some how seem superior to theirs.

[Guest nra37922]

Back on topic and a question I asked in another thread on this case

 

How long after GZ is found not guilty do the riots break out?

[RobertNashville]

Just as a side note. I dont know how much ground work you have ever done, but someone with good balance in the mount is almost impossible to get off your chest. I weigh 260 lbs and I'm 6'1" and have a black belt in judo with 17 years experince, as well as black belts in other arts. My dad weighs 160 lbs and has a 6th degree black belt in judo. if he gains mount its almost impossible to get him off. But, if you can keep calm, it is not impossible to draw a weapon. I know, Ive practiced that exact scenario with blades and firearms, shirt and long gun. So yes, I do believe even with two untrained indivduals, it is possible to not be able to get someone off, but still draw and fire. As far as defense wounds, if he got attacked with his guard down, and it went straight to the ground, he would not be able to get any power behind strikes from underneath. He would have been covering his face, pushing and trying to draw his weapon.

As far as not getting any licks in. Ive been in my far share of bar brawls and back alley fights. If you hit someone hard enough the first lick, they wont know which way is up, much less have time to fight back before it goes to the ground. And that was mutal combat, a sucker punch would be worse.

Sent from the backwoods of Nowhere

Wow...maybe I need to be training with you!  :)

[RobertNashville]

Back on topic and a question I asked in another thread on this case

 

How long after GZ is found not guilty do the riots break out?

I fully expect that if the verdict comes down as anything other than guilty the riots will be almost instantaneous.

[Chucktshoes]

Back on topic and a question I asked in another thread on this case

How long after GZ is found not guilty do the riots break out?

I fully expect that if the verdict comes down as anything other than guilty the riots will be almost instantaneous.

Pretty much this.

[Spots]

Wow...maybe I need to be training with you! :)

I did not say that to come off like an Internet badass. I was only trying to prove a point. If it came off as bragging or me trying to act like a billy badass like that I apologize
Sent from the backwoods of Nowhere

[Dolomite`s Breezy]

Wow...maybe I need to be training with you!  :)

You never seen Spots in person have you?....lol

If I didnt personaly know him and knew he really is a sweet guy....I would change sidewalks to avoid him.

[TripleDigitRide]

I hope they do riot. Then I hope the riots result a handful of Rodney King style beatdowns so we can hear more from Al and Jessie. They've been far too quiet.

Edited June 15, 2013 by TripleDigitRide

[Spots]

Wow...maybe I need to be training with you! :)

You never seen Spots in person have you?....lol
If I didnt personaly know him and knew he really is a sweet guy....I would change sidewalks to avoid him.

I'm nothing but a big teddy bear. On topic I really couldn't give a damn if they riot and burn their own neighborhoods down around them. It just shows their ignorance. I'm prediciting hung jury. To many polar opposite opinions.

Sent from the backwoods of Nowhere
Edited June 15, 2013 by Spots

[RobertNashville]

I did not say that to come off like an Internet badass. I was only trying to prove a point. If it came off as bragging or me trying to act like a billy badass like that I apologize
Sent from the backwoods of Nowhere

No...didn't take it that way at all.  It's just that one of the things I've never trained for is fighting without a weapon...closest thing I've ever done was high school wrestling!  :)

[Spots]

I did not say that to come off like an Internet badass. I was only trying to prove a point. If it came off as bragging or me trying to act like a billy badass like that I apologize

Sent from the backwoods of Nowhere

No...didn't take it that way at all. It's just that one of the things I've never trained for is fighting without a weapon...closest thing I've ever done was high school wrestling! :)

Awww gotcha. Well your welcome anytime. Judo has alot in common with wrestling, except we practice a lot of very vicious throws. I also did/do Muay Thai, Taekwondo, Hapkido, Kendo (japanese sword), and Marine Corps martial arts. I used to be all about fair fights. I liked fist fighting for fun. I still do sometimes, mostly bare knuckle (wrapped hands) brawls with friends. Now, I train to win by any method on the street. If you pull a knife, if I have a gun Im gonna shoot you. If I dont, I'm gonna look for a pipe, board, something to beat you to death. Last resort, one of my big fixed blades. Nobody wants a knife fight. Its just a bloody, nasty mess. I train for it, but I use big blades, and focus on major cuts most of the time. Arteries and joints lol. I look for any advantage.

Sorry guys, back to the normal thread

Sent from the backwoods of Nowhere
Edited June 15, 2013 by Spots

[Dolomite_supafly]

Awww gotcha. Well your welcome anytime. Judo has alot in common with wrestling, except we practice a lot of very vicious throws. I also did/do Muay Thai, Taekwondo, Hapkido, Kendo (japanese sword), and Marine Corps martial arts. I used to be all about fair fights. I liked fist fighting for fun. I still do sometimes, mostly bare knuckle (wrapped hands) brawls with friends. Now, I train to win by any method on the street. If you pull a knife, if I have a gun Im gonna shoot you. If I dont, I'm gonna look for a pipe, board, something to beat you to death. Last resort, one of my big fixed blades. Nobody wants a knife fight. Its just a bloody, nasty mess. I train for it, but I use big blades, and focus on major cuts most of the time. Arteries and joints lol. I look for any advantage.

Sorry guys, back to the normal thread

Sent from the backwoods of Nowhere

This may not stop the fight instantly like a gun can but it will ensure only one story is told if it is done correctly. But as we have seen here only one story may not be enough.

 

A person will not recover from a severed femoral if treatment isn't given in 5 minutes. It can be a lot quicker but 5 minutes is about tops on a unrestricted bleed. Unless the person is extremely lucky there is no way an ambulance or trained person will be there within those 5 minutes.

 

The body is amazingly durable thing but it is also extremely fragile during certain circumstances. Loose too much blood and even though it is stopped it can take days, weeks and sometimes even months to die. Without oxygen or the ability to carry oxygen the average person is probably going to be dead inside of those same 5 minutes.

[knewcomb]

Awww gotcha. Well your welcome anytime. Judo has alot in common with wrestling, except we practice a lot of very vicious throws. I also did/do Muay Thai, Taekwondo, Hapkido, Kendo (japanese sword), and Marine Corps martial arts. I used to be all about fair fights. I liked fist fighting for fun. I still do sometimes, mostly bare knuckle (wrapped hands) brawls with friends. Now, I train to win by any method on the street. If you pull a knife, if I have a gun Im gonna shoot you. If I dont, I'm gonna look for a pipe, board, something to beat you to death. Last resort, one of my big fixed blades. Nobody wants a knife fight. Its just a bloody, nasty mess. I train for it, but I use big blades, and focus on major cuts most of the time. Arteries and joints lol. I look for any advantage.

Sorry guys, back to the normal thread

Sent from the backwoods of Nowhere

If you werent on a list before, you are now.

[Spots]

If you werent on a list before, you are now.

Lmfao. I'm a Marine, gun owner, and very out spoken against the current goverment and all firearms laws, both here and on facebook and several other forums. If they are just now getting around to putting me on a list they are way behind the curve.

Sent from the backwoods of Nowhere

[Spots]

This may not stop the fight instantly like a gun can but it will ensure only one story is told if it is done correctly. But as we have seen here only one story may not be enough.

A person will not recover from a severed femoral if treatment isn't given in 5 minutes. It can be a lot quicker but 5 minutes is about tops on a unrestricted bleed. Unless the person is extremely lucky there is no way an ambulance or trained person will be there within those 5 minutes.

The body is amazingly durable thing but it is also extremely fragile during certain circumstances. Loose too much blood and even though it is stopped it can take days, weeks and sometimes even months to die. Without oxygen or the ability to carry oxygen the average person is probably going to be dead inside of those same 5 minutes.

I've always trained with a blade to make major cuts. Small slices will back some people up, but if its to the point that I'm using a knife to defend myself, its deadly force just like a gun. Major arteries like the femoral, cartoroid, brachial, as well as soft organ attacks like heart and stomach are main targets with a blade. Some places you can hit with a knife its almost impossible to stop the bleeding before death, even if you did it on the floor of an emergency room. A knife and man who knows how to use it and has the willingness scares me as much or more than someone with a firearm in a confrontation.

Sorry folks I have really side tracked this thread.
Sent from the backwoods of Nowhere
Edited June 15, 2013 by Spots

[c.a.willard]

dont worry about it this thread needed a good sidetracking