Bellevue Kroger

[Guest c.a.s.]

Go to the "Meetings/Gatherings" section and go to "East TN TGO Members AUGUSt Meeting" thread. You can get details about a meeting there. It's on the 18th.

[Guest BigBoostDSM]

Going to be back in IL for next week, I'll be out of that one.

[The Rabbi]

Your right I'm a college student who has student loans paying for just about everything during the school year, who saved up paychecks this summer to buy a handgun because I'd rather be safe then feel safe. But your right I should spend a couple of hundred dollars trying to find the perfect concealing holster which will take a couple tries even though I already have a perfectly good OWB holster which I like. But your right, my bad I was just trying to cop-out.

Or you could just spend $5 on a shirt that would cover it.

[The Rabbi]

. He also warned everyone in the class to think long and hard before doing OC. Knox County deputy's are trained to take a person down for OC'ing a weapon, plain and simple. If you are legal you will be released and get you gun back.

I want to OC in Knox County so I can sue the miserable SOBs for false arrest and abuse of authority. They can ask to see the permit but they cannot arrest someone for doing something legal.

[DaveTN]

I want to OC in Knox County so I can sue the miserable SOBs for false arrest and abuse of authority. They can ask to see the permit but they cannot arrest someone for doing something legal.

Are you saying that you don’t think anyone in Tennessee has been arrested for open carry? Why do you think the AG wrote that opinion?

Also just because the cops take down someone at gun point doesn’t mean it was because they were open carrying. They may have been suspects in something else. Also, he didn’t say they were arrested; just checked out.

[towerclimber37]

Are you saying that you don’t think anyone in Tennessee has been arrested for open carry? Why do you think the AG wrote that opinion?

Also just because the cops take down someone at gun point doesn’t mean it was because they were open carrying. They may have been suspects in something else. Also, he didn’t say they were arrested; just checked out.

I doubt very seriously that they will "take you down."

I can tell you right quick, if you're open carry the LAST thing a police officer will do is to escalate the situation, unless he's an idiot.

More than likely he'll have a partner and while the partner keeps an eye on you he'll ask you for your permit.

Guys, most LEO's are NOT looking for a fight. they want to make sure everyone is safe and not killing each other.

they're pretty good guys, most of em...say hi to em...

BTW,

still no answer from Krogers on whats being done vis a vis the policy there.

[Marswolf]

This has been an interesting topic even through the vitriol.

I've learned something useful from this discussion. I expected some of the OC/CC packers to be as they turned out. A couple of people have surprised me.

What I think I am seeing are reasons to concealed carry, and excuses to open carry. Am I off base on this?

[Guest Fred LE FI]

Why carry openly? It's a tactically poor choice and almost guaranteed to "scare the horses". I don't see the point, but I don't know everything...

Fred

[Guest Hyaloid]

This has been an interesting topic even through the vitriol.

I've learned something useful from this discussion. I expected some of the OC/CC packers to be as they turned out. A couple of people have surprised me.

What I think I am seeing are reasons to concealed carry, and excuses to open carry. Am I off base on this?

I hope nothing I have posted has come across as vitriol, that truly isn't my intent.

I think there are reasons on both sides. The simplest reason to OC is because it's legal and a person wants to. Another would be because it is more comfortable. Another would be because it is the most practical for a given situation. Converse to your position, one could say there have been reasons for CCing given, but excuses why people WON'T OC. It's all about perspective I suppose.

I have mentioned that I try to step back and see both sides, I hope others can do the same, and perhaps not rush to judgment on those who would practice different carry methods than they have chosen themselves.

At this point I probably OC 10-15% of the time, certainly not exclusively. I have yet to be slammed to the ground. I have yet to be accosted by a criminal. I have yet to (thankfully) be shot in the back of the head standing in line at the stop and rob.

I don't think I am an ignorant redneck who wishes to be tactically unsound while I confront local law enforcement and try to prove how tough I am. If someone wants to look down on me because of my decision, despite the reasonings I have posted here, and despite the fact that it is a legal way to carry a firearm in the state of Tennessee, then there is little that I can do to change that person's mind or perceptions. I have done my research, and feel confident in my decision. I'll listen to arguments against my own position, and maybe someday I'll hear one that will sway me. But, it hasn't happened yet.

[Marswolf]

Hyaloid, that sounds like a reasoned response.

As I've said, I both OC and CC. It depends on the situation and when I do OC I try to dress appropriately. My concern with OC is pretty much that I'm afraid it will lead to its being made illegal if enough of the sheeple get frightened by it. I think that's a legitimate thing to consider when you go out in public with a gun. There are a lot more sheeple than packers and they also vote.

If OC does get banned, you lose that protection from harassment and arrest for incidental exposure of your handgun. It also might prevent you from OCing in the woods, where it is clearly appropriate.

As I've said, this is an interesting topic. One thing we see is a polarization of OCers who think that CCers are wimps, and CCers who think that OCers are cowboys.

[Guest Knifeman98]

Rabbi is correct

[The Rabbi]

Are you saying that you don’t think anyone in Tennessee has been arrested for open carry? Why do you think the AG wrote that opinion?

Also just because the cops take down someone at gun point doesn’t mean it was because they were open carrying. They may have been suspects in something else. Also, he didn’t say they were arrested; just checked out.

According the post by Mike .357 Knox Co deputies will arrest anyone OCing and confiscate their weapon until they "check out." Maybe I misread it.

If that is the case then they are abusing their authority and perpetrating a civil rights abuse. You do not arrest someone for legal activity. If they stop and ask to see the permit, that is legal and proper.

[The Rabbi]

Rabbi is correct

Could we have a vote and just make this a general rule??

[TGO David]

When I OC, I most certainly DO NOT want a confrontation. I just want to go about my daily activities in peace...

For me, going about my activities in peace means not being hassled by the police, security guards, store clerks, store management or other members of the public at large. Like it or not, even here in the South it makes the average soccer mom very uncomfortable to be around someone who is carrying a gun but not wearing a uniform or a badge. It's a social stigma.

...while armed in the most comfortable and practical fashion available to me.

In my opinion, one must sometimes forgo the notion of experiencing the utmost comfort in their attire when they make the conscious decision to carry a handgun. IWB can be almost as comfortable as OWB, but the comfort of going armed albeit concealed is far more important to me than the minor irritance of having my handgun's grip poking me in the flab occasionally. Life is about making concessions, sometimes.

What I think I am seeing are reasons to concealed carry, and excuses to open carry. Am I off base on this?

I think there are reasons and excuses on both sides of this discussion.

Why carry openly? It's a tactically poor choice and almost guaranteed to "scare the horses". I don't see the point, but I don't know everything...

I really can't argue the tactics side of this since I've never openly carried and subsequently become involved in a firefight, but I can definitely support the idea that it does "scare the horses" as you put it.

Ultimately I think Marswolf is right in his prediction that ritual open carry is not what the legislators had in mind and that abuse of this provision will result in seeing that provision repealed. And while MolonLabeTN in particular has been vocal about unexercised laws being useless, I would have to counter that the reality of legislature is that laws are interpreted by the "spirit of the law" as well as just by their wording. While we might think we're in the right to the letter of the law itself, the spirit of the law may read entirely differently.

Just my $0.02 on the subject.

[Guest Hyaloid]

Could we have a vote and just make this a general rule??

NAY!

[Mike.357]

I am not being confrontational or a smartass, I truly mean it. Do you have a link to any coverage of an incident where this has occurred?

No link, just first hand personal knowledge and attorney fees later it still is unresolved. Hopefully only about 5 more weeks. I choose to not share any more personal details here on this forum. Those that I care if they know (friends) have been told face to face about it.

When I OC, I most certainly DO NOT want a confrontation.

I clarrified my post but what I meant with confrontation was someone noticing a person OC and speaking up, confronting them about it. Not a gunfight or anything physical.

Oreo's, or Chip's Ahoy! Personally, I prefer Oreo's with white milk, and Chip's Ahoy with chocolate milk. Of course, if there is no milk at all, I go with Nutter Butters.

Oreo's and milk are decent, not not an Oreo fan really, Nutter Butter is well, I guess I am not a fan of RKBPBC, ( right to keep and bear peanut butter cookies, yuck)

but now Chip Ahoy's , and this will sound sick but I love it, dip them in cola. I prefer Diet Pepsi, delicious! I did once call the 800 number on the package. You all know the slogan "betcha bit a chip" I recited this slogan to the operator and told her, "betcha I didn't" They sent me a coupon good for anysize box of Chip Ahoy's. I traded it for the industrial size box from the local grocer. I want to say i remember it being like a $20 box of cookies, lol.

[Mike.357]

What I think I am seeing are reasons to concealed carry, and excuses to open carry. Am I off base on this?

Bingo!

According the post by Mike .357 Knox Co deputies will arrest anyone OCing and

I do not believe I said the word ARREST, maybe I did, I am not going back and re-reading this entire thread. I did not mean arrest. Detain, handcuff, up against the wall, down on the sidewalk walk, palms up. That is what I meant.

[roninnashville]

I have sent a protest-type email to Kroger customer service and encourage members to do so.

[molonlabetn]

...What I think I am seeing are reasons to concealed carry, and excuses to open carry. Am I off base on this?

I think the reasons to OC are just as valid as the reasons to not OC... And either way, the reasons presented on both sides can be read as excuses.

[The Rabbi]

I think the reasons to OC are just as valid as the reasons to not OC... And either way, the reasons presented on both sides can be read as excuses.

I see the reasons to OC amounting to:

1) It is legal, therefore right.

2) It is more comfortable that way.

3) If we don't do it we are on a slippery slope to total confiscation.

I don't see those as particularly compelling although I grant the first two a measure of validity.

[saintsfanbrian]

We can make a long laundry list of reasons why any one person would want to do anything. As long as the person performing the action feels it is the best action for them, they are going to do it (regardless of legality.)

Personally, I am on both sides of the fence here. I open carry on days that it suits me to do so. Where I used to work was in a bad part of town, the boss did not allow weapons on company property. The dress code was such that if I use IWB I would be retucking my shirt once I got to the parking lot. It was easier for me to slip a paddle holster on my waist and place the pistol there. Sometimes I stopped for gas or breakfast. I open carried in to those establishments with no problem.

Other times, like when I go to the zoo, I definitely CC. There is a sign out front that states "No firearms" and that is all. It doesn't meet the regs for being verboten, there for I cc there. Mainly because I have rambunctious little ones and I wouldn't put it past either of them to find a way in to the lions cage. I want to be able to drop Tom the tiger if he gets too close to my precious angels and not have to wait on Zoo staff to come in with their tranquilizer guns. Sorry city, but if it is a choice between a zoo animal and my child, I am going with my child living any day.

So to tell some one that they are stupid or insane for OC, well, that is like me saying why do you even need a gun on you to begin with. It is a choice that each individual has to make.

As for the Knox County PD. I would be willing to test their "code" of saying throw the person to the ground if you see a gun. That is an egregious abuse of power and SHOULD BE PUT TO THE TEST. This is not something that we can accept from our law enforcement officers and if this is the counties policy, it needs to be changed. A simple asking for a permit would suffice and then if the person refuses, gradually increase the methods needed to gain complicity. Starting with a take down tactic is a sure way to have a lawsuit against the city, the officer, and the county filed. I want to see a case where this happened directly to the individual reporting it, not as a friend of a friend of mine scenario.

Those who give up freedom for security deserve neither.

[Guest Hyaloid]

I see the reasons to OC amounting to:

1) It is legal, therefore right.

2) It is more comfortable that way.

3) If we don't do it we are on a slippery slope to total confiscation.

I don't see those as particularly compelling although I grant the first two a measure of validity.

(1) It is legal, therefore not wrong

(2) No change

(3) We are already on that slope, it may hasten it one way or the other, perhaps in our favor.

[molonlabetn]

Perhaps the reason why we are losing the 'hearts and minds' of the general public about the RKBA is, in part, that no-one sees normal folks exercising the right. If other interest-groups' public displays advocating homosexuality, racial equality and other 'civil-rights' issues can be so successful in bringing them into the main-stream of society (when they were just as unpopular at first)... I submit that we are simply not pursuing our agenda in the most effective way.

Simply hoping to be ignored is not the best tactic for expanding our freedom.

[saintsfanbrian]

I have to agree, rights not exercised are easily taken away. Too often we see rights trampled on. Anyone watch Cops on Saturday night? I saw 2 cases where the cops did something wrong.

1. - Though in plain sight, a police officer reached in to a car and pulled out a pack of cigarettes which was closed, he then opened it and found a "stem" in it. This man went to jail because of an illegal search and seizure. He had not given permission for the police to search his car. The officer simply reached in took out the pack and opened it.

2. A police officer was searching a persons car and opened a piece of mail that was in a sealed envelope in the car. This was AFTER the person had given her true identity to the officer. Isn't that a Federal Offense?

Sitting by and allowing the police, the general populous and the politicians unfettered access to our personal lives is disgusting and something must be done about it. If simply choosing to carry a firearms WITH A PERMIT on your hip gets you in trouble, then my friends we do not have the freedom or the rights that we are guaranteed in the Bill of Rights and the Constitution.

[Rightwinger]

Yoooohooooooo............who wants cookies!

(everyone is right, everyone has had a chance to forward their opinion, its all going to hinge on everyone of us doing our best according to our best decisions at that time when we interact with public or hoodlum).

Now, does anyone want milk with those? Next topic.