Talked about before!!!!

[deerslayer]

37 minutes ago, papa61 said:

Sorry, not funny about the shoulder bud, I was laughing that you'd think I'd need a ride.

I refuse to have that surgery at my age, one of the nursing techs at my doctor's office had it and I'm not going through that.

63 is plenty young to do it.  I did it at 51 on the right side and it went great.  Now I’m 53 and so far so good on the left, but it’s still early.  My dr. said his average victim is 60.  
 

If you saw how I tore my left one back in December, you’d definitely laugh at me.  

[papa61]

29 minutes ago, deerslayer said:

63 is plenty young to do it.  I did it at 51 on the right side and it went great.  Now I’m 53 and so far so good on the left, but it’s still early.  My dr. said his average victim is 60.  
 

If you saw how I tore my left one back in December, you’d definitely laugh at me.  

My left has been torn for over 15 years, probably wouldn't help it. I don't know how long the right has been torn. They found it before doing the fusion on my vertebra. I've had 7 surgeries since 2012. Recovery gets tougher every time.

Sorry for hijacking bersaguy thread people. 

[leroy]

RE:  Rotator cuff... Had my right done about 32 years ago.  I'll never forget what my Ortho Dr said.  " When it hurts bad enough, you will get it fixed ".  He wuz right.  It finally hurt bad enough.

leroy

[gun sane]

2 hours ago, deerslayer said:

If you saw how I tore my left one back in December, you’d definitely laugh at me.  

2 hours ago, papa61 said:

My left has been torn for over 15 years, probably wouldn't help it.

Hope y'all get back to your fighting best soon!

Edited yesterday at 04:20 AM by gun sane

[Kywldcts]

21 hours ago, btq96r said:

Three pages in and nobody is here shilling for .40S&W, so we at least have some hope.

I'd say carry what you have confidence in- the gun and the round are a marriage...and in that analogy,  the gun is your wife.  It's the most important part, and has to be attended to first.

I carried a .40 (Glock 22) as a duty weapon for years.  And from personal experience it will 100% put someone down effectively and quickly.  It’s a great round.  It’s also not something that, in my opinion, is practical for concealed carry unless you’re carrying a full sized gun.  And it’s comparatively expensive to shoot.

[papa61]

9 hours ago, gun sane said:

Hope y'all get back to your fighting best soon!

I am more concerned with my spine than my shoulders. I do have pain in my shoulders if I move them wrong but I've learned to deal with it. Like leroy said, if it gets bad enough I'll get it fixed. Thank you for the good wishes.

I have noticed I don't want to put as many rounds downrange as I used to. 

[papa61]

8 hours ago, Kywldcts said:

I carried a .40 (Glock 22) as a duty weapon for years.  And from personal experience it will 100% put someone down effectively and quickly.  It’s a great round.  It’s also not something that, in my opinion, is practical for concealed carry unless you’re carrying a full sized gun.  And it’s comparatively expensive to shoot.

I have no doubt 40 will work. You bring up a good point though, it's cheaper to run 9mm than any other centerfire pistol round. Recoil isn't as hard but it is snappier that 45

[pop pop]

I have had both shoulders scoped and had several large bone spurs ground out. Left shoulder had a small tear which they dressed up. Basically had Arthritus in both shoulders. I am 77 and both shoulders are pain free now. 

To get back to the subject of Bersaguys post. Just went to the Hornady site and looked at Critical Defense for both 380 and 9 MM. 

380 Critical Defense FTX HP bullet.

90 Gr bullet from 3" brl

925 FPS

14 to 16" penetration with small wound channel.

9 MM 115 Gr critical Defense FTX 4" brl

1122 FPS

14 1/2 "penetration

IMO, either of these calibers will do the job. The 9 MM is better, but the 380 put in the right place will do. Just not that much difference in either. The 380 did have one round that only expanded a minimal amount and traveled to 20" penetration with a very small wound cavity.

There is a small difference in barrel lengths which has some bearing on velocity. The 380 tested in a 3 inch brl,  9 MM in a 4 inch brl. That has a different effect on bullet expansion. Also the 9 MM bullet is a 115 gran opposed to the 380 at 90 gr bullet. 

Guys just not a large overwhelming difference in these 2 calibers. The 9 MM is superior; however, the 380 could very well be adequate. 

[monkeylizard]

At 10 feet:
That .380 delivers ~170 lbf of force.
That 9mm delivers ~330 lbf force.

That 9mm is a rounding error away from delivering DOUBLE the punch of the .380. There actually is an overwhelming difference between 9mm and .380.

That .380 may be adequate given the situation, but the 9mm is undeniably a significantly more effective round, all else being equal. Also remember those force calcs are on .380 with a 3" bbl and the 9mm is with a  4" bbl. Shorter barrels will produce less force for both rounds, and the .380 doesn't have much to spare. It kind of makes the case for the Bersa Thunder-sized .380 guns IF the .380 is the round a person chooses to carry. At 3.5", it's delivering about as much as that round can manage.

BTW, a comparable .45ACP delivers only about 10% more than that 9mm with about 390lbf.

Modern 9mm is a highly effective cartridge.

Edited 22 hours ago by monkeylizard

[Garufa]

What about the 9x17mm?  Is that an option?  

[pop pop]

I stated the 9 MM was better than a 380. To me force figures (Double 9MM over 380) act for shock values. I am not aware of any 380 or 9 MM that will deliver but a minimal amount shock value on a nervous system. The 9 MM has a 25 grain heavier bullet difference, and most likely, if the 380 was shot in a 4" brl, it would raise the FPS on the 380 to be more in line with the 9MM; however still not as high.

Saying this, I still know 9 MM is better, but the 380 put in the right place just "MAY" be adequate for a get off me pistol. I am carrying the Bodyguard 380 as backup to the 357. In a given situation, one may be forced into, one may not even have time to draw a backup pistol, but it gives me a measure of comfort to have a New York Reload on board in what I consider a very vulnerable situation, (IE, Fuling up in unknown public places), monkylizard.

I may be a little over reactive as I was confronted in a fuel stop in Montgomery Alabama a few years back and I was basically helpless in front of a dunk man of color with the grip of a snubbie sticking out of the dudes pocket. I was outside of my vehicle and my revolver was under the seat. That is why I started carrying on a regular basis. I lost some money but left unharmed. That was not a good feeling for me. Even today I will gladly lose money rather than escalate the same sort of confrontation but also know things can go sideways sometimes. Is that not why many/we all carry?  Those possible crossway situations! 

  

 

[leroy]

A 380 may not kill ya like a photon cannon, but it will make ya feel pretty bad.   HEHEHE.

That said, any of the " big " calibers will make ya feel bad too.

leroy 

[Alleycat72]

2 hours ago, leroy said:

A 380 may not kill ya like a photon cannon, but it will make ya feel pretty bad.   HEHEHE.

That said, any of the " big " calibers will make ya feel bad too.

leroy 

I don't know what he was shooting, but this is why I want "enough gun"

Warning bad things happen in the video 

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/16kpRaZM4X/

https://kpel965.com/tragic-end-for-good-samaritan-seen-shooting-hit-by-truck-in-viral-video-incident/

 

[leroy]

1 hour ago, Alleycat72 said:

I don't know what he was shooting, but this is why I want "enough gun"

Warning bad things happen in the video 

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/16kpRaZM4X/

https://kpel965.com/tragic-end-for-good-samaritan-seen-shooting-hit-by-truck-in-viral-video-incident/

 

I ain't sure a rifle would have helped here.  I ain't sure the police could have handled this either... A genuine tragedy brought by either a mad man. a crazed psychopath, or a drug addled fool.

The sobering thing is that you can go 30 miles north of where I live and be in danger of this.  I've been to Lumberton and I've been to Campbell County.  There ain't much difference.  SIGH ...

leroy 

Edited 1 hour ago by leroy

[Alleycat72]

1 hour ago, leroy said:

I ain't sure a rifle would have helped here.  I ain't sure the police could have handled this either... A genuine tragedy brought by either a mad man. a crazed psychopath, or a drug addled fool.

The sobering thing is that you can go 30 miles north of where I live and be in danger of this.  I've been to Lumberton and I've been to Campbell County.  There ain't much difference.  SIGH ...

leroy 

The guy lived long enough to back up and run him over after being shot at almost point blank. We don't know what he was shooting, how many or any hits, or chemicals in the guys system. It is possible only a hit in the CNS would have stopped it. I do know of a home invasion that was stopped with a 22Lr. My buddy was aiming at his head and hit him in the pinky finger.  Guy dropped and was arrested. I asked him if the guy had put his hand in front of his face and that's how it happened. He told me no, he has no idea how he hit him in the hand.