In case you didnt know it, we have a Gun Owners Tax in Tennessee!!!

[Fallguy]

TICS also checks for stolen firearms. The make/model/caliber/serial number of the firearm are entered into the TICS system at the time of purchase. Every once in a while, you actually get a stolen hit.

I think that is a different check...

TBI Instant Check System

[gotigers]

nevermind

[GLOCKMEISTER]

[QUOTE=Reservoir Dog;420934]TICS also checks for stolen firearms. The make/model/caliber/serial number of the firearm are entered into the TICS system at the time of purchase. Every once in a while, you actually get a stolen hit

Where?? Every time I've had a TICS run there was no information on the firearm submitted. I was also told I could add additional guns to that approval within 24 hrs, without another check.

Was I misled on this?

ok just to clear up a few things. 1st off the TICS chech is on you and the gun, both. Your criminal background and on the gun to check for stolen. What is a waste is we already run the guns serial number before we ever take them in, so its in essence gets checked twice. The TICS check checks your background, it actaully useses the NICS sytem(FBI) while doing part of the check. So again its double duty. Its also double the chance of you getting delayed if the system is down because we have to use both TBI and FBI's systems. This is what was so frustrating for me back when the TICS kept going down a while back. It was our states system that was the problem, FBI would be running fine but the servers at TBI would be screwed up thus the delay.

What else thats totallly frustrating is were having to, for no reason they can give us, enter your physical address into the system now. It takes time, although not much, and its not needed.

Im just wanting to raise awareness to what were dealing with in this state in gun ownership costs.

[Guest Schwarzgebrannt]

We have to pay a ridiculus $10 minimum fee every time we buy any new firearm. They call it a "TBI background check fee" but none of the other states that use the Federal NICS process has to pay a fee to do the same check thru FBI. So why do we as citizens? As citizens we were tricked into believing that this "$10 TBI fee" would only be in place until it paid for the TICS system, then would be lowered then go away. Well guess what... its still there!!! Why, because of greeeeed!!!!

Don't have a problem with either, really.

[TGO David]

Odd. I just noticed that some of the guys fussing about the State of Tennessee using it's own background check system and charging us $10 for it instead of using the Federal Bureau of Investigation's instant check system are the same folks who tout the 10th Amendment as being a giant middle finger at the Government telling them to stay out of Tennessee's business.

Seems like picking and choosing to me.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

Well not I, the 10th amendment was nothing but a feel good law. I have always said that. Maybe Kwik could test it out for us, huh? Were never going to be totally independent from the federal govt. That issue was decided back in 1865, and im sorry but those wanting to be seperate lost.

All im saying is the feds have a system in place thats better, more reliable, less hassle to everyone involved, and is free. Or at least our federal taxes have already paid for it. My problem is we were lied to in the beginning, now were stuck with this monster. A monster thats not fair, everyday I see Tennesseeans that get denied by the TICS system, then we have to file an appeal, and guess what.. all the sudden they are approved. I have had multiple customers that have been denied by TICS only to be overturned the same day because they made a mistake. One as quickly as 10 minutes.

The TICS sytem has flaws, period. But now im afraid our state has become dependant on funds gunowners generate. It may very well be too late. We have a federal system that works that we've already paid for.

Why not use it if at all possible?

[Fallguy]

I'm afraid you're right about the Firearms Freedom Act and that "state's rights" was decided nearly 150 years ago. But I do think kwik would make a good test case.

If you look up the statistics on TICS around 50% of denials that are appealed are overturned. Of course not all denials are appealed...so you have to wonder if it would be even higher then?

It does make you wonder what is causing so many denials on the front end that end up reversed.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

Yea but that stats may be a little misleading. I think those are the only overturned to approved not counting the conditional proceeds. At least I dont think those stats cover the conditional proceeds, honestly i'd say 90% of our denials are overturned to approved or conditional proceed.

Either way the customer shouldnt have been delayed or denied... they should have to prove your prohibitted if they are going to deny your purchase.

[Guest faust921]

While I agree the $10 TICS fee needs to go, I have no problem with the .10 ammo tax. That 10 cents goes solely to support TWRA who is entirely funded by the fees it collects. They receive no sales tax dollars from the state for operation.

I respectfully ask you to consider these questions?

1. If a granny buys some self defense ammo for her .454 Casull and does not hunt, why should she pay a conservation tax?

2. Many people benefit from wildlife management such as hotel operators, restaurants, boat rental marinas, gas stations. Why should the gun owner be solely responsible to pay a tax to fund the maintenance of a resource that benefits everyone?

3. Why should gun owners accept the IDEA of even one cent of a tax when it is a obvious back door tactic to restrict gun ownership and use? We should be demanding a law that specifically prohibits the taxation of ammunition. A ammo tax is like a poll tax, in that you have a specific constitutional right as a citizen and some taxpayer supported leech comes along and decides to apply a tax to YOUR RIGHTS. (Actually a poll tax that makes it so only working people and people who have worked can vote seems like a good idea sometimes)

4. Who decides that ammo is some kind of evil product that requires an additional tax, on top of a sales tax? How about a tax on hybrids for the battery disposal costs, or an additional tax on throw away coffee cups to fund firearm education for children? Maybe we need a tax on books, or a value added tax on foreign made cars? Let's tax the behaviors that the gun haters hold so important, whatever that is and let that pay for conservation, it makes about a much logic as what we just accept as okay.

Thank you.

[1gewehr]

No criminal has EVER been stopped from acquiring a firearm due to a 'background check'. The whole concept of the background check is feel-good theater just like the TSA security checks at airports.

Let's face it, you can buy a 'novelty driver's license' for any state in the US that looks exactly like a real one. As long as a criminal uses a real name, address and DL number, it will pass any ID check and nobody will ever be the wiser. Any cashier (grocery store, power company, cable company, etc) has access to DL numbers from anyone who uses a check to purchase goods or services.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've heard that the TICS check is what keeps us from being able to buy firearms without ANY background check. The HCP check uses TICS, not NICS. If it used NICS, then the ATF would accept a TN HCP as proof of a background check and there would be no $10 fee for any firearm purchase as long as you had a HCP.

[LagerHead]

Or maybe we pay a $10 fee because we don't pay a state income tax which other states use to pay for any number of services it provides to residents?

But we have one of the highest sales tax rates in the nation. That goes to pay for those things that other states use an income tax to pay for.

How can we have the right to "bear" given to us in the 2nd and god, when we have to ask permission again from the state. It sounds like they define right as privelege.

Unfortunately the 2nd Amendment hasn't been incorporated to include the states yet, so the states, Tennessee included of course, can make their own laws regarding firearm ownership and carry. And in Tennessee it's illegal to carry a firearm on your person. An exception is made for those who pay the fees to get a carry permit. Therefore in Tennessee it actually is a privilege and not a right. Hopefully NRA v. Chicago will change that very soon though.

[Oh Shoot]

...An exception is made for those who pay the fees to get a carry permit. Therefore in Tennessee it actually is a privilege and not a right. Hopefully NRA v. Chicago will change that very soon though.

The Chicago case won't affect carry one bit.

It's only about the right to OWN a handgun.

Carry will still be banned, no matter what, just as it is in D.C.

It also won't change the FOID hoops you have to jump through to simply own a firearm of any kind in Illinois, either.

- OS

[Guest That Guy]

TICS charges the FFL holder. In turn, you are charged.

[trblmkr13]

The Federal system is pretty good they have really strict SLA's that they must maintain

[Guest faust921]

The Chicago case won't affect carry one bit.

It's only about the right to OWN a handgun.

Carry will still be banned, no matter what, just as it is in D.C.

It also won't change the FOID hoops you have to jump through to simply own a firearm of any kind in Illinois, either.

- OS

You have to start somewhere. (like legal handgun ownership or term limits for Chicago Mayors) But the case may devolve into a discussion about the 14th amendment which pertains to states being able to pass laws that infringe on your rights under the constitution. The 14th amendment was in response to Southern states that passed poll taxes and other laws after the Civil War, and the feds wanted to make sure that the newly freed slaves would not be legislated back into 2nd class citizenship.

On one hand it might be a victory for gun owners as a city like Chicago could not pass a local ordinance that overrides the 2nd amendment, however it could also set a precedent for loss of local control of social issues that are currently governed under a state law. So you defer to the feds to get your freedoms but lose some state sovereignty. The interesting aspect is that the ACLU types are interested in the outcome of the NRA lawsuit for if the NRA prevails, the door is open for more liberal social legislation that is prohibited by some states ie. gay marriage.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

well someone must be asking questions or feeling some heat, TICS just sent out a questionier to dealers asking how they are doing. Like someones going tell them the truth, especially the way they have been treating people lately?

[Krull]

"state income tax". I'm fine paying all fees listed.

Edited January 12, 2010 by Krull

[Guest sigsbird]

NJ charges a $15.00 NICS Fee

[Guest MikeH]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've heard that the TICS check is what keeps us from being able to buy firearms without ANY background check. The HCP check uses TICS, not NICS. If it used NICS, then the ATF would accept a TN HCP as proof of a background check and there would be no $10 fee for any firearm purchase as long as you had a HCP.

The TICS system uses the TN records, NLETS, and NCIC to check both the purchaser (for wanted, Brady indicators,felonies, etc) and the firearm for any stolen records. I believe the $10 is actually for the Instant part of the TICS check, other states don't have that luxury. The reason HCP holders are checked is because Tennessee checks your (our) record every five years, not annually like other states. If we were required to renew our HCPs annually, which would also mean an annual background check, then HCP holders would be exempt from the TICS check. This is a BATFE regulation, not Tennessee's. There is a check box on the 4473 that is checked if there is an annual renewal for a HCP. This exempts the holder from the background check. Alabama residents have annual renewal and seem appalled that they have to pay TICS and "suffer" through a background check, it isn't that was in AL. The one high note to all this is that those records are purged daily (at 10:30 Pm, I believe), so the "registering" of the firearm to the purchaser only lasts a few hours, then the TBI TICS unit's records are purged.

I hope this clarifies some of the questions, or at least fuels the debate!

[GLOCKMEISTER]

all I know is I ran a customer that came up denied on the 18th of Dec... we appealed on that day and finally got a "conditional proceed" back on him today... thats 35 days in limbo. The law states that have to let us know in 15 days. I cant transfer a gun after 30 days from the original purchase. So in short were having to rerun the guy this evening, costing $10 more because TBI dropped the ball... he will get denied because the system is screwed up and we will have to refile yet another appeal. Wonder how long TBI will take this time.

[Guest bnutriaz]

I used to work at a gun store in Florida. At that time there was a fee we had to charge to cover their instant background check. I cant remember exactly what the cost was but to my recolection it was 5 or 8 dollars. I dont necessarilly have a problem with a fee of sorts along these lines, I do have a problem with the possible stockpiling of these kinds of records.

Coop

[Alpha7]

It is already against the law for felons to posess a fire arm. so what is the purpose of any background check? Lets just keep writing redundant laws. It doesnt matter how many legal owners are checked, the criminals will still get guns. They won't go thru any background check. The constitution, specifically the 2nd am, does not mention background checks. Nor does it or the 10th mention that firearms are the states responsiblity. both say "people" not state.

background checks are just a way of big gov to see what we are doing and for TN to get a few extra dollars. It serves no purpose since there are other laws.

The background checks only slow down law abiding citizens in their pursuit of their right. This is gun control.

How can we have the right to "bear" given to us in the 2nd and god, when we have to ask permission again from the state. It sounds like they define right as privelege.

At least we do not live in communist california where you cant own double stacked firearms and you have a 10 day waiting period on firearms purchases.

[Guest Boogieman]

Without the background checks will allow illegal purchases at a gun store for someone that would be rejected during the background check. Since we have background checks, illegal purchasers have to resort to going to gun shows, buying from private sellers or commit burglary at a home that has gun(s) to get a firearm.

I want to make it harder for illegal gun purchases and the background checks accomplish that goal which is not a waste of money.

+1

[strickj]

It's funny how so many are saying BG checks are needed even with a permit because of all the criminals, blah blah blah....because here in GA, if you have a CL, they waive the BG check.

Don't think there's a problem here

[Zulu Cowboy]

The real shame is...that U.S. citizens have to pay ANY kind of tax whatsoever, to exercise their Constitutional rights!!

Let's try taxing the 1st amendment...and then see how many people begin howling for political blood.

Zulu Cowboy