Bill Haslam at TFA meeting last night

[Guest TnRebel]

Yes 68%1071

No 31%497

total votes: 1568

[eapking]

I'm ready for this election to be over so I don't have to hear the long pauses between Haslam's sentences on his endless commercials.

[Guest archerdr1]

just voted.71% yes, 28% no

[Guest archerdr1]

As I was reading this thread, I noticed that many times it was said that Bill Haslam tried to ban guns in parks. Is there any link showing this vote? The reason I ask is that I got this from his site: Home | Bill Haslam for Governor of Tennessee

"As the current Mayor of Knoxville, Bill made sure that Knoxville – unlike all other major cities in Tennessee – does not impose criminal penalties on concealed carry permit holders who carry their guns in city parks. As a member of the NRA, Bill understands that our Second Amendment rights are essential to our freedom and must be protected."

[Garufa]

As I was reading this thread, I noticed that many times it was said that Bill Haslam tried to ban guns in parks. Is there any link showing this vote?

Any and all posts or accusations that Haslam tried to "ban guns in parks" or voted to do so are absolutely wrong.

When "guns in parks" was passed by the state with the option for local municipalities to opt out Knoxville already had an ordinance on the books that prohibits firearms in those areas. Failure to comply is a misdemeanor offense, and still is.

Mayors do not vote in passing or rejecting any ordinances.

Edited October 25, 2010 by Garufa
OhShoot set me straight!

[Guest archerdr1]

I thought that they would have to vote to ban them or the ordinance would be null and void. That was my understanding, that they had to vote to ban or it would be legal. That is also what his site says as does the Tennessean. (see my above post for Haslam's site quote)

[Oh Shoot]

..

The Knoxville City council knew there were not enough votes to repeal the existing ordinance and allow carry in parks SO THERE NEVER WAS ANY VOTE OF ANY KIND TAKEN ON THE ISSUE.

YES THERE WAS YES THERE WAS YES THERE WAS.

There really was. I watched all three sessions live, and the council DID couch the issue in a final vote, although I can't remember how is was phrased. I'm pretty sure it was simply whether to keep the old ordinance in place.

He could have supported something one way or the other but remained quiet on the issue.

NO HE DIDN'T NO HE DIDN'T, ...

He didn't. He made a quite straightforward speechlet during the second or third council meeting, stating the reasons why it was best to keep the existing long time ban in place.

One of the reasons was financial, because if the existing ordinance were nuked, they'd have to post signs everywhere, as Haslam certainly never approached it as nuking the ordinance to ALLOW carry.

I don't know if the videos of these meetings are still archived on Knoxville City site or not, but I'll look around when I get home and back on broadband. Maybe you can find them?

- OS

Edited October 26, 2010 by OhShoot

[Oh Shoot]

"As the current Mayor of Knoxville, Bill made sure that Knoxville – unlike all other major cities in Tennessee – does not impose criminal penalties on concealed carry permit holders who carry their guns in city parks.

Total backpeddling horse pucky.

Violation of the city ordinance is 50 fine and/or up to 30 days in jail, AND is indeed a misdemeanor.

Just because it's not a state charge doesn't make it NOT a criminal penalty.

I thought that they would have to vote to ban them or the ordinance would be null and void. That was my understanding, that they had to vote to ban or it would be legal. That is also what his site says as does the Tennessean. (see my above post for Haslam's site quote)

There were two issues.

- If the original city ordinance were messed with at all it would be null. So the only thing they could do with the original ordinance was nuke it.

- IF they had nuked it, the new state statute would take effect in which they would have had two choices, like any other TN city. Either let people carry, or pass a resolution to opt out and forbid carry. In the second instance, they would have had to spring for signage.

But original ordinance still stands. And it doesn't require signage, so there's no way that someone from out of town would know. They'd assume it was okay to carry.

Hell, half the folks in Knoxville probably don't understand either. But ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Also, Knox COUNTY did NOT opt out of new state statute, so you can carry in county parks. Which is some cases adjoin city parks and greenways. There's supposedly one out west that goes in and out of city/county more than once,even, and there aren't "Welcome to Knoxville" signs on the greenways, so in one step you go from legal to illegal.

- OS

Edited October 25, 2010 by OhShoot

[Garufa]

Thanks to Mr. Shoot I stand corrected. Went back and did some homework and recitified my disremeberance of the City of Knoxville & Haslam's actions. His statements are included here, if you can understand it.

The action begins on page 6.

http://www.ci.knoxville.tn.us/citycouncil/archive/2009/092209m.pdf

Edited October 25, 2010 by Garufa

[Guest TnRebel]

just for sake of argument and a FYI here are the states that allow open carry without a permit.

Permissive Open Carry States which means the states have passed full preemption regarding all firearm laws. These states permit open carry to all law-abiding citizens without a criminal record without any special permit or firearms license. The open carry is legal for a citizen on foot or in a motor vehicle. The states that allow this are Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Arizona, New Mexico, South Dakota, Vermont, West Virginia, Virginia, Alaska and Kentucky.

And the states that allow with a permit.

Licensed Open Carry States allows open carry to all law-abiding citizens once they apply and are approved for a permit or firearms license. They can also carry on foot or in their motor vehicle. The states that require a permit or license for open carry are Utah, North Dakota, Minnesota, Iowa, Indiana, Tennessee, Georgia, Maryland, New Jersey, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Hawaii and Massachusetts

[mikegideon]

just for sake of argument and a FYI here are the states that allow open carry without a permit.

Permissive Open Carry States which means the states have passed full preemption regarding all firearm laws. These states permit open carry to all law-abiding citizens without a criminal record without any special permit or firearms license. The open carry is legal for a citizen on foot or in a motor vehicle. The states that allow this are Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Arizona, New Mexico, South Dakota, Vermont, West Virginia, Virginia, Alaska and Kentucky.

Not exactly. When I lived in Kentucky, you could open carry, but concealed carry wasn't legal without a permit. I think it's still that way.

[1gewehr]

just for sake of argument and a FYI here are the states that allow open carry without a permit.

Permissive Open Carry States which means the states have passed full preemption regarding all firearm laws. These states permit open carry to all law-abiding citizens without a criminal record without any special permit or firearms license. The open carry is legal for a citizen on foot or in a motor vehicle. The states that allow this are Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Arizona, New Mexico, South Dakota, Vermont, West Virginia, Virginia, Alaska and Kentucky.

And the states that allow with a permit.

Licensed Open Carry States allows open carry to all law-abiding citizens once they apply and are approved for a permit or firearms license. They can also carry on foot or in their motor vehicle. The states that require a permit or license for open carry are Utah, North Dakota, Minnesota, Iowa, Indiana, Tennessee, Georgia, Maryland, New Jersey, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Hawaii and Massachusetts

Additionally, the following states allow open carry without a permit, but have some restrictions that do not apply to those with a permit:

New Hampshire, Maine, Delaware, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, Alabama, Louisiana, Missouri, Kansas, Nebraska, Colorado, Oregon and Washington.

As you can see, there are a total of 27 states which require no permit to carry a handgun openly. Add in the 13 states which allow open carry with a permit, and you see that it is not an uncommon right.

[mikegideon]

Additionally, the following states allow open carry without a permit, but have some restrictions that do not apply to those with a permit:

New Hampshire, Maine, Delaware, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, Alabama, Louisiana, Missouri, Kansas, Nebraska, Colorado, Oregon and Washington.

As you can see, there are a total of 27 states which require no permit to carry a handgun openly. Add in the 13 states which allow open carry with a permit, and you see that it is not an uncommon right.

Yeah, funny thing. When I was a young 'un in Kentucky, we used to whine because we couldn't put our pistols in the glove box, or conceal them in any other way.