Riverbend Time: an experience from last year.

[Guest Marine03]

Well Riverbend is just around the corner and I'd like to share an experience from last year and get thoughts and opinions. I AM NOT COP BASHING!!!

Last year while walking around with my wife enjoying the shows I was called over to one of the scaffolding platforms that the Chattanooga Police were using. One of the officers told me not to look down and tell him the color of my shoes. I did as he asked all the while more than a little puzzled. He then told me congratulations I could keep my pocket knife just un-clip it and put it down in my pocket. I expressed my bewilderment and he explained that knives/weapons were not allowed and that they were playing a game if you answered their question correctly you could keep your knife, incorrect you lost it. He then showed me a bag full of confiscated knives. Very politely I asked how that was possible as there were no postings anywhere. He told me that in the brochure it says no weapons so they were enforcing that. I replied that that didn't seem very legal which seemed to irritate the officers, so I wished them a good night and stuffed my knife in my pocket and left. All the while they failed to notice my 45 or my wifes 40 we were carrying IWB.

My point with all of this is: I don't see how this would stand up in a court as Riverbend is a privately funded festival held on public streets with no public postings. To me that would be illegal confiscation of personal property. And God forbid they find a permit holder legally carrying. What would happen? Thoughts, Opinions? I'm sure the would arrest you and make life a living hell I just don't see how a court would justify it.... BTW the county Cops weren't bothering anyone.

[Oh Shoot]

Well, it certainly reinforces the advantages of concealed carry. Of every damn thing.

- OS

[Il Duce]

and another reason to not go there aside from the million of drunk rednecks in the sweltering heat

[Guest Lester Weevils]

No accounting for taste. A couple of music-loving friends think riverbend is a high point of the year. You could pay me to go, but my fee would be very high.

[strickj]

Riverbend forbids all weapons.

Festival Rules - Riverbend Festival

I'm note exactly sure what powers they have to forbid guns inside the gates, especially with no postings... but, the majority of the festival is held within a city park and parks are off limits per city ordinance (opt out). If discovered carrying, you could find yourself in all sorts of legal woes...

[mikegideon]

and another reason to not go there aside from the million of drunk rednecks in the sweltering heat

I like drunk rednecks

[Guest Marine03]

Riverbend forbids all weapons.

Festival Rules - Riverbend Festival

I'm note exactly sure what powers they have to forbid guns inside the gates, especially with no postings... but, the majority of the festival is held within a city park and parks are off limits per city ordinance (opt out). If discovered carrying, you could find yourself in all sorts of legal woes...

But it's not actually in the park. The venues are on the public street. The only stage in a City park is the one under the bridge. Which is not posted. Which is what make me curious as to the legality of them banning weapons. You may post and ban on your own property but how as a private entity can you declare a ban on a public street?

[JayC]

I'd be curious to to see what happened to that private property... I bet it didn't get checked into the property or evidence room. Also since when are knifes under 4 inches in length considered weapons?

Also, I thought state law doesn't allow the posting of streets and sidewalks? Only parks, and buildings owned by a city/county? But rumor has it, the Memphis police are doing the exact same thing downtown, posting a public street.

[Guest XD9GUY]

If I go this year, I'll be "packin". The concern is getting back to your car safely.

[Oh Shoot]

,,, Also since when are knifes under 4 inches in length considered weapons?...

AFAIK, TCA doesn't define "weapon".

But certainly, there is no prohibition of a <4" knife, unless it is a switchblade, or possessed on school grounds.

How 'Nooga gets away with actually confiscating blades as described in this thread, I dunno. I suppose the best answer is: simply because they do.

- OS

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Guess it is kinda like having a gun at a public event-- About everybody feels like they ought to have a gun, but they don't want the numerous obvious idiots in the crowd to have guns.

I just avoid large crowds. Large crowds are statistically certain to contain a sufficient quantity of idiots.

[strickj]

I asked about this on the Chattanooga board. My thoughts were the city, somehow, extended the boundaries of the park to include the whole event.

But it seems that the Friends Of The Festival leases the park, street, and surrounding areas from the city making them "private areas".

This will give them the authority to write their own rules concerning weapons.... or to allow alcohol in the park\street on the flip side.

I also asked if carrying a weapon would be an arrestable offense (there's several cops that post there) and have not received an answer. I don't blame anyone for not wanting to answer that. It's my opinion that it would be treated like any other posted area where you would simply be asked to leave or risk trespassing.

[Guest monkeyhumper]

I asked about this on the Chattanooga board.

What is this Chattanooga Board?

[JayC]

I'm sorry I just don't buy it... Converting a public street and sidewalk to a city park... I don't see how they do that via a contract... They would have to pass something (normally after 3 readings) to annex the property into the park, and by state law to post it, pass an ordinance to post it, then reverse the process (again with 3 readings) afterwards.

My guess, they just make stuff up as the go along, hoping that nobody that understand the law calls them on it... What do they have to loose? More tax payer money from loosing a lawsuit for doing something illegal? It's not like they get arrested, loose their job, or pay out of pocket.

I asked about this on the Chattanooga board. My thoughts were the city, somehow, extended the boundaries of the park to include the whole event.

But it seems that the Friends Of The Festival leases the park, street, and surrounding areas from the city making them "private areas".

This will give them the authority to write their own rules concerning weapons.... or to allow alcohol in the park\street on the flip side.

I also asked if carrying a weapon would be an arrestable offense (there's several cops that post there) and have not received an answer. I don't blame anyone for not wanting to answer that. It's my opinion that it would be treated like any other posted area where you would simply be asked to leave or risk trespassing.

[Oh Shoot]

...My guess, they just make stuff up as the go along, hoping that nobody that understand the law calls them on it... What do they have to loose? More tax payer money from loosing a lawsuit for doing something illegal? It's not like they get arrested, loose their job, or pay out of pocket.

Yeah, AND, you know you're not gonna get a criminal charge lodged for theft or something, so you have to sue, and for what damages? Most can't justify the expense even for an expensive knife, what lawyer is gonna take it on spec to mainly just sue for fees, so what's left? Punitive damages for civil rights violation? I don't see that going anywhere.

Maybe if it happened to a lawyer? Nah, they have to get along with the powers that be, too -- they can take on the cops for a client, part of the game, but that ain't perceived in same way as taking them on personally, I'd venture to say. Course, an established lawyer of 'bout any stature at all in same community will get his knife back anyway, wouldn't even have been taken in first place if the cop knows him.

It's all in all a relatively minor matter in the overall scheme of things, but just something that would gall me to no end if it happened to me.

- OS

Edited May 26, 2011 by OhShoot

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I'm bah-humbug about the entire Riverbend thang, but OTOH I don't even like the annual Red Bank parade because it makes Dayton Blvd impassable for a few hours.

Back when I would play music. Every year on the final Saturday of Riverbend-- They have a fireworks show the last day about the time I got off work. Figure a couple of hours just to get from downtown about four miles home to Red Bank. I finally started either driving all the way around town that last night of Riverbend, or going up thru town to Highway 58 and 153 thru Hixson to get home. Lots quicker driving 20 or 30 miles than driving 4 miles thru that mess. People would turn the Olgiati bridge into a parking lot to watch fireworks, then take their sweet time traffic-jamming their way home afterwards.

At one time was in the habit of a Saturday morning walk-- Park on the northside, then go across Walnut St bridge and then follow the river walk to the dam and back. Nice little walk. Tried doing that on a Riverbend day and they wouldn't let me on to the River walk without a badge, even when I was going the opposite direction and didn't have the slightest intention of listening to concerts. Bah Humbug.

They should run that thing in a stadium rather than mess up all of downtown with it.

[peejman]

It's all in all a relatively minor matter in the overall scheme of things, but just something that would gall me to no end if it happened to me.

Similar to red-light cameras. Just bend over and take it. Shame to see the authorities resort to such tactics, so much for "protect and serve".

They should run that thing in a stadium rather than mess up all of downtown with it.

I grew up in Hixson and went to UTC for a couple years. You can imagine the fun when you're living on campus in summer school and the Bessie Smith Strut is a block away.

I did get to meet Reggie White one year (before he went waco). I was walking from campus to Riverbend and he passed by, entourage in tow. I said "hi Reggie" without stopping. He stopped, said hello, shook my hand, and chatted for a moment. He was quite polite. I didn't have the presence of mind to get a picture. And seeing Glenn Frye and Joe Walsh play the year before the Eagles reunion was really cool. Then the prices went way up and the talent went way down. I haven't been in about 10 years.

[Oh Shoot]

Similar to red-light cameras. Just bend over and take it. ...

I really don't see that analogy at all, I'm afraid.

Btw, I got popped at a camera intersection once. Actually for not stopping before doing right on red. I was incensed, had to be a mistake. Watched the online video, yep, guility, I hadn't even come close to full stop. Same as if a cop had been there behind me. Only diff was you might get a break from a cop.

- OS

[DaveTN]

Which is what make me curious as to the legality of them banning weapons. You may post and ban on your own property but how as a private entity can you declare a ban on a public street?

They banned carry into the downtown area when the Nazi’s had their rally. They were searching people. I haven’t heard of anyone challenging that.

[peejman]

I really don't see that analogy at all, I'm afraid.

Btw, I got popped at a camera intersection once. Actually for not stopping before doing right on red. I was incensed, had to be a mistake. Watched the online video, yep, guility, I hadn't even come close to full stop. Same as if a cop had been there behind me. Only diff was you might get a break from a cop.

- OS

Simply meaning that the punishment for the infraction (regardless of legality of the enforcement) isn't worth the trouble of fighting about it. You get a camera ticket, you pay the $50 and go on with life. It makes you mad, but that's just tough. The cops see your $30 knife, you hand it over and move on.

[strickj]

I'm sorry I just don't buy it... Converting a public street and sidewalk to a city park... I don't see how they do that via a contract... They would have to pass something (normally after 3 readings) to annex the property into the park, and by state law to post it, pass an ordinance to post it, then reverse the process (again with 3 readings) afterwards.

My guess, they just make stuff up as the go along, hoping that nobody that understand the law calls them on it... What do they have to loose? More tax payer money from loosing a lawsuit for doing something illegal? It's not like they get arrested, loose their job, or pay out of pocket.

The city park and street can be leased by anyone. The Friends of the Festival rents the area. They are a private origination. The city has absolutely nothing to do with the rules concerning weapons inside the event.

How is that making it up as you go?

[Oh Shoot]

Simply meaning that the punishment for the infraction (regardless of legality of the enforcement) isn't worth the trouble of fighting about it. You get a camera ticket, you pay the $50 and go on with life. It makes you mad, but that's just tough. The cops see your $30 knife, you hand it over and move on.

In the traffic case one is provably guilty of the infraction.

In the case of the knife confiscation, one has broken no law that would warrant such penalty.

However minor an example, the second instance is actually a constitutional issue, the first is not.

- OS

[Guest tommy62]

Rumor of metal detectors this year especially at the Strut. I'm glad I hate crowds.

[JayC]

People need the ability to bring and prosecute criminal charges against public officials... Public servants going to jail, loosing their job is the only way to bring things back in balance.

Yeah, AND, you know you're not gonna get a criminal charge lodged for theft or something, so you have to sue, and for what damages? Most can't justify the expense even for an expensive knife, what lawyer is gonna take it on spec to mainly just sue for fees, so what's left? Punitive damages for civil rights violation? I don't see that going anywhere.

Maybe if it happened to a lawyer? Nah, they have to get along with the powers that be, too -- they can take on the cops for a client, part of the game, but that ain't perceived in same way as taking them on personally, I'd venture to say. Course, an established lawyer of 'bout any stature at all in same community will get his knife back anyway, wouldn't even have been taken in first place if the cop knows him.

It's all in all a relatively minor matter in the overall scheme of things, but just something that would gall me to no end if it happened to me.

- OS

[JayC]

The city park and street can be leased by anyone. The Friends of the Festival rents the area. They are a private origination. The city has absolutely nothing to do with the rules concerning weapons inside the event.

How is that making it up as you go?

I don't see how a city rents a public street and sidewalk to a private entity. The park, sure... but public streets can't be posted, the same for public sidewalks.

The simple solution is for the legislature to take away the ability for any government buildings to be posted.