Still trying to make an above retail profit on AR's.

[Guest TankerHC]

Just some general comments and observations.

 

Dont want to get into that argument I have seen on ALL of the Forums concerning AR and Ammo purchase/sell Free Market vs Gouging. But some General Observations.

 

During the "recent unpleasantness part II", everyone knows what happened. Gun prices shot up, flying off the shelves as quick as they came in etc..etc..  I know people (several personally) who paid the high prices for the AR's because they didn't want to get caught short, and that is understandable since for a short period it looked like we may lose with several formerly pro gun, pro 2A Senators falling in line. Of course there were others who, I wouldn't call all of them unscrupulous, although they were out there, selling AR's for 4 times their pre panic value, even used ones, 4 times their pre panic retail value. I wouldn't fault anyone for trying to make a buck. But some did do it in unscrupulous ways, selling to the uninformed, knowing full well they were uninformed. I know it isn't their problem the buyer is uninformed, but for me it is a matter of ethics. Would a gun owner, who generally knew the value of the gun, pay 4 times what is was worth? Most likely not, but "some" knew they could sell it to someone who didn't know what the actual pre panic value was. A perfect example is a female cousin of mine up in Maryland. Her husband is a long time shooter, since the 70's, has his C&R, buys lots of guns.  His birthday was coming up. Offhand he mentioned that he wished he would have got another AR before everything started disappearing and going up. I wont go into detail but she called me and told me that and then said "Guess what, I found him one". I knew what was coming next when I asked her how much she paid for it. $2700 for a DPMS Panther. But I will say that it was on Armslist, from the description from her best I could tell it was a Bushmaster, but later her husband told me it was a Panther, and just a plain used Panther, no fluted barrel, no nothing. $600 gun at best. Also told me that the purchase was off Armslist and she had to jump through hoops to get it, but the guy who sold it to her was the guy who directed her to it and is a family FRIEND. To me that is not only unscrupulous, but bold since this FRIEND knew her husband knew his firearms. I suppose he figured since it was a birthday present the husband wouldnt be told. Didn't turn out that way, but anyway...

 

I look around Armslist and other sale sites daily. I watched as the prices dropped, and I watched the Forums as members simply stated, "In various ways" that they should have known better. Now they are stuck with $700 guns that they paid $1500 for to sell for $2500. Back in January when prices began rising, and I dont know why, there were plenty of AR's still available at normal prices, I picked up a Sig M400, $900. I saw two online today from private sellers, one for $1350, one for $1500. Still with wrappers. Which tells me the seller had no intention of shooting it to begin with, it was an investment. in February, I bought a Windham WW15 at Academy at normal prices. I have been in 3 Academy's in the last month that all had the same gun in stock, for $100 less than what I paid. Yet today I see one, for $2500. Overall, prices have pretty much returned to normal. But I believe there are a lot of people out there who made an investment, a big one, in firearms, to make a profit, that are now trying to cut their losses but still selling and hoping someone will buy what is still a used gun, regardless of its NIB moniker. You buy something from a retailer and don't use it, its still used. "As new" would be more accurate.

 

The people who paid all of this money for these guns, apparently did not understand risk in investments. These firearms purchases were not low risk, I would go so far as to say it even exceeded an alpha risk. Americans spent way too much money betting on Politicians. But of course that is their right to do it. On the other side of that coin, they should have known that paying that much over retail, with that much risk, they could end up in the position a lot of them are in today. Stuck with a gun they do not want, trying to recover at least some of the money they put out, and the only way to do it is by trying to sell it above what it is at retail right now.

 

Unfortunately for some people, those who bought that really didn't have the money but saw a guaranteed mini fortune in a firearm, Well there is no sure thing. You took a risk, you lost. That's how it works. your $900 "used" gun is most likely not going to sell for $1500 no matter that you paid $2500 for it. There is no such thing as a simple buy-sell with a guaranteed return on investment. I know people wouldn't listen to me, but I do have a little experience in this area. My advice to them right now would be to really cut your losses. look at what the retail price is, look at what the overall political situation is, then sell your 'new" gun for 30, 40 or 50 less than retail plus tax. And when the crap hits the fan again, and it will one day, think about what happened the last time. I actually heard people say "Wait until they pass the assault weapons ban, my AR will be worth 15 or 20,000 dollars". It wouldn't have happened. During the 94 ban, between 94 and 96 AR prices overall actually dropped. They didn't go up. The reason being that the manufacturers, once the Crime Control Act passed the House vote, dramatically increased production before the ban took effect. And there was no guarantee that ban was not going to be permanent. If the President had not let the sunset clause take effect, we could very well still be under that same ban today.

 

To sum up this long post, I will say one thing, you have to give it to the gun community, the GIANT gun community, as a whole, are some smart people, and loyal as all hell. I say smart because in the 4 1/2 months of this fiasco, on the 15 or so gun forums I am on, all the people I know personally who shoot and all the people I know who are 2A supporters, I cannot recall one single person saying "here's my new Sig M400 and I only paid three thousand dollars for it". What I heard was "I will wait this out". I saw lots of people sending money in for the cause, buying memberships in various 2A supporting organizations, not just the NRA, but when the NRA did ask, the money came pouring in. Every day they would ask for more, and every day more people would give, join and I bet there are at least a few hundred thousand members out there who were gifted memberships. Every day I would see people looking for guns and ammo,as soon as they would see it they would let everyone know, even when non gun owners would join some of the forums asking for advice, the advice was real and it was accurate. Lots of times I saw new members asking what they should do because the guns are going away and always got solid advice, dont buy at these prices, we are going to win. Then you look at the manufacturers who stayed loyal to their customers, their customers remained loyal to them, but when a company like CTD did what they did an hour after Pmag announced they had so many orders that they were three years behind, the crap hit the fan and right now today they are trying to buy back that loyalty. When Larry Potterfield got on TV and ran a video saying he didn't care how much prices went up, they would continue to sell to their loyal customers at normal prices, what they had and could get, (Although there may be limits), you could tell CTD lost tons of customers to Midway. But today, you still have people trying to recover from big mistakes that will lose more if they don't REALLY cut their losses. But personally, I do not know ANY in the firearms/2A community.

 

Just my (long) 2 cents.

 

 

[Chadastrophic]

Words words and more words.

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[10-Ring]

I don't feel sorry for people who paid $2000 for $1500 guns and tried to sell them for $2500.  I hope they can't get rid of them for more than $800 or they get stuck with them.

[MiddTennTaco]

Too long, didnt read.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I seen a local Walmart with a DPMS for $547.

[whitewolf001]

The poor schmucks thought that we were going to be under another assault ban and with good reason since 'signs pointed to yes', I thought about selling my carbine to make a quick buck then decided against it since I too could be left out in the cold should a ban possibly get through which towards the end there, it was a pretty close call, I know I was chattering my teeth, haha. I agree with you though making a profit is one thing but flat out shanking people for 200-400%, that's another matter entirely. You know something is wrong when the more expensive local dealers are a steal. This is why I refuse to shop with Cheaper Than Dirt anymore, also becuase they were constantly topsy turvy in our fight for the 2nd.

[Westwindmike]

What really bothers me is we have a member here on this board that is selling .22 ammo for $50 a brick. And nobody seems to mind that he is doing it. It's hard to believe that anyone would buy it at that price.

[Dolomite_supafly]

What really bothers me is we have a member here on this board that is selling .22 ammo for $50 a brick. And nobody seems to mind that he is doing it. It's hard to believe that anyone would buy it at that price.

 

He can ask whatever he wants, it is his stuff.

 

We cannot dictate what something is worth only the market can. If you think it is too much then don't buy it or make him a offer you feel comfortable with. The market determines what the value is something is and right now 22 is hard to find so prices are going to be higher.

 

Just like 6 months ago when AR's were going high because their was a shortage of them but now that are pretty much back to normal because the supply has normalized.

 

How would you feel if someone came in and told you what to sell your home, your car or anything else for?

[Westwindmike]

I'm just saying I would be embarrassed to ask what this guy does on ammo. He can ask all he wants. It's just hard to believe that anyone would be that hard up to find ammo that they would pay those prices.

[monkeylizard]

Too long, didnt read.

 

I'll summarize:

 

"I hate capitalism when I'm on the wrong end of the supply and demand curves and I hope the people who bought for an investment get screwed."

[jgradyc]

I can't get too upset about anyone overpaying. No one forced anyone else to buy a gun.

 

With almost everything else in the retail world, the value drops by 15% to 50% when you walk out the door.  If you bought a mountain bike for $2,000 three months ago, you'd be lucky to get $1,000 for it now.

 

I am a bit ticked off that ammo continues to be unavailable and the a$$# selling ammo at jacked up prices on armslist. I was in Walmart a week ago and they had three boxes of 22WRM. I bought one box and left the rest for someone else. All this panic buying is going to jack up the retail price of ammo permanently.

[2.ooohhh]

What really bothers me is we have a member here on this board that is selling .22 ammo for $50 a brick. And nobody seems to mind that he is doing it. It's hard to believe that anyone would buy it at that price.

I bet for every 1 member trying to turn a profit there are a half dozen either giving it away to get children into shooting or selling it at their cost.  :2cents:  (I know I have and have seen others doing it as well)

[Guest drifter]

I can't feel bad for the panic buyers.  Sometimes you win sometimes you lose.  Just want ammo to settle back down already.

[Raoul]

Curious thread. Deja vu all over again.

Edited July 16, 2013 by Raoul

[Caster]

Curious thread. Deja vu all over again.

Didn't you just say that?

[broox]

Too long, didnt read.

Some people say I have the attention span of a  OH WOW look, it's a squirrel

Edited July 16, 2013 by broox

[whitewolf001]

Some people say I have the attention span of a  OH WOW look, it's a squirrel