Out of state handgun purchase?

[Stainless]

I have a seller sending me a handgun I bought from the state of Oregon. He claims he can legally ship it personally, not through his LGS or FFL to m in TN.

Is this true? I know you can do this with a rifle, but I thought pistols had to go FFL to FFL?

Thx for the help.

[DaveTN]

He doesn’t have to go through an FFL, but it has to go to an FFL here for transfer.

[mcordell]

You cannot purchase a handgun in a state other than your state of residence without a transfer

He can ship the handgun directly to an FFL (as long as your receiving FFL accepts it) I know some won't accept firearms from non FFLs.

So yes he can ship it to your FFL personally as long as your FFL is good with it.

I have shipped several handguns I've sold online without using an FFL to ship it for me ... Most receiving FFLs I have shipped to requested I ship the handgun with a copy of my ID


(B9) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 178.31, 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]
(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U. S. Postal Service?
A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. A nonlicensee may not transfer any firearm to a nonlicensed resident of another state. The Postal Service recommends that longguns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms.

[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)] Edited November 24, 2013 by mcordell

[Oh Shoot]

....

Is this true? I know you can do this with a rifle, but I thought pistols had to go FFL to FFL?

 

Bzzzzt.

 

Private sale of any firearm between residents of different states is a felony under federal law, regardless of where it takes place. 

 

The only difference in long gun and handgun is that 4473 must be done in the state of the recipient in the case of the handgun, while long guns may be transferred by an FFL in any state.

 

- OS

Edited November 24, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[TripleDigitRide]

Bzzzzt.

 

Private sale of any firearm between residents of different states is a felony under federal law, regardless of where it takes place. 

 

The only difference in long gun and handgun is that 4473 must be done in the state of the recipient in the case of the handgun, while long guns may be transferred by an FFL in any state.

 

- OS

I can't tell you how many arguments I've been involved in over this topic. I am amazed at how many people think you can legally buy, sell and trade long guns with those who reside in other states, without the involvement of an FFL.

[Garufa]

I can't tell you how many arguments I've been involved in over this topic. I am amazed at how many people think you can legally buy, sell and trade long guns with those who reside in other states, without the involvement of an FFL.

 

According to the news media you can. 

[Oh Shoot]

I can't tell you how many arguments I've been involved in over this topic. I am amazed at how many people think you can legally buy, sell and trade long guns with those who reside in other states, without the involvement of an FFL.

 

Yeah. And proving it is pretty cut and dried when folks mail a firearm, as each party knows they are dealing with out of state resident.

 

As far as face to face, whichever buyer or seller is in a different state than his own is the most clearly culpable. The only gray is for a seller in his own state, as he must "know or have reasonable cause to believe" that the buyer doesn't reside in same state, but actual documentation is not specifically required (though I think a seller is quite unwise not to check).

 

- OS

Edited November 24, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[Oh Shoot]

According to the news media you can. 

 

Well, they're right to a certain extent as to actual practice. What the media misses of course is that it's already illegal to do it.

 

- OS

[Garufa]

Well, they're right to a certain extent as to actual practice. What the media misses of course is that it's already illegal to do it.

 

- OS

 

What the media does not fully explain is that private citizen living in state A can sell to private citizen living in state B but it MUST go through an FFL.  They simply report that anyone can buy a gun off the internet without furthing explaining some of the relevant details.  Big surprise.

 

I'd wager some of those TDR has argued the issue with are getting their information from what they see on the evening news.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Garufa

[Patton]

Pretty much summed up the FFL issue, how do you know it is. It a scam? There are tons of them out there now.

[DaveTN]

Yeah. And proving it is pretty cut and dried when folks mail a firearm, as each party knows they are dealing with out of state resident.
 
As far as face to face, whichever buyer or seller is in a different state than his own is the most clearly culpable. The only gray is for a seller in his own state, as he must "know or have reasonable cause to believe" that the buyer doesn't reside in same state, but actual documentation is not specifically required (though I think a seller is quite unwise not to check).
 
- OS

There is no gray area in knowing age and state of residence; selling to an out of state resident or a minor is a crime.

[Oh Shoot]

There is no gray area in knowing age and state of residence; selling to an out of state resident or a minor is a crim

 

No, federal law does not say that at all, Dave.

 

Federally, in both cases to be unlawful, the seller must  "know or have reasonable cause to believe" that such is the case. Otherwise, it is not unlawful, simple as that, as the statutes are precisely worded. I don't know of any seller in his own state who was stung for that unless he saw the buyer's out of state ID or was told by the buyer he was from out of state, and sold anyway -- never have seen any mention of a precedent where simply not asking to see ID was grounds enough alone for a conviction.
 
AFAIK, TN law doesn't address the issue of private interstate transfer at all, not sure regarding proof of culpability for intrastate transfer to a minor.
 
- OS

Edited November 25, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[wvglock]

Isn't it sad that a father can not give a son a gun in another state unless he dies.  I am still surprised that this has not been resolved.  Or the fact that some of us live on the border of another state and can not go across the boarder for any gun buying or selling.

[Oh Shoot]

Isn't it sad that a father can not give a son a gun in another state unless he dies.  I am still surprised that this has not been resolved.

 

Ironically, the Manchin-Toomey background check thing would have relaxed all that big time, all the way to first cousins or some such, and over state lines, all without 4473.

 

- OS

Edited December 9, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[monkeylizard]

Isn't it sad that a father can not give a son a gun in another state unless he dies.  I am still surprised that this has not been resolved.

 

I suppose you mean that he can't do so without paying an FFL to do a transfer. $15-$50 isn't the worst thing in the world. Of course, the father could loan the gun to his son and that loan doesn't have to be for any specified period of time.

[wvglock]

My FFL's around here want $45 per transfer.  Its not the worst thing, but it is ridiculous.

[monkeylizard]

Yeah...see my 3rd sentence for the solution.