Tiny 9mm pistols

[BryanP]

Now that I've taken my HCP class and I'm in the process of getting the permit I've been looking at small semi-auto pistols. I like the Kel Tec P3AT and the Ruger LCP, but I don't want to buy a gun in Yet Another Caliber, especially one that I haven't seen any ammo for in months. If .380 were widely available again I'd seriously consider picking up an LCP. But ... it isn't.

So, next up is the tiny 9mm. Some of them are quite small, but I was wanting to get feedback from those who have owned and used them. These are the models I was quickly reviewing:

So the big issues are size, price and reliability. If I end up with one that's unreliable I won't be happy, but I've always got my S&W 638 for use as a CCW, so I can sort of experiment. Based on everything I've read and heard, here's my take on each of thes tiny 9mm pistols:

Kel Tec PF9

Thiis looks like a great choice from the size and price standpoint, but I keep hearing stories about it being picky about ammo. Besides, this wouldn't be a "fun gun", so reliability is more important than price. The logic behind this one is that I could buy it and if I don't get a particularly reliable one I can keep sending it to Kel Tec until they get it right.

Taurus Slim 9 (709)

Falls solidly in the middle on size, and is quite competitive on price. Taurus semi autos have a bit of a reputation though. I've owned their revolvers and they've worked fine, and I've heard nothing but good things about their Beretta 92 derivatives, but their other semi autos ... I've heard of PT111's that have more frequent flier miles to Miami than a Colombian drug mule (joke shamelessly stolen from Tamara). Besides, it's new. Never buy a gun when it's new. Let someone else be the beta tester.

Walther PPS

I hadn't even heard of this one until I saw it on a shelf the other day. It felt good enough in my hand, and Walther has a good reputation. While the MSRP is high, the street price is considerably more reasonable. Even so it comes in about double the price of a PF9. It's also the second largest of the group I list.

Kahr PM9

The good: very small, with only the Rohrbaugh beating it in size. The bad: while the MSRP is only $73 more than the Walther, thee street price differential is larger. Starting to get into the realm of "more than I want to spend." Also, I've heard that Kahr's QC can be spotty. If you get a good one you're golden, if you get a bad one ... There's a used Kahr (not a PM9, but a similar model) in a local shop at a very reasonable price of $499. I have to wonder if the low price is because it's one of the lemons.

SIG P239

What's to say? It's a SIG. They work. The negatives are the size (largest of the bunch) and the price (second most expensive).

Rohrbaugh R9

Holy crap. It's tiny. It's very tiny. It has a reasonably good reputation as far as I can tell. It's also made from the finest unicorn horn. At least that's what the price seems to indicate. My first three cars cost less than that. Put together.

So. Decisions, decisions. As I said, I'm not in a hurry. I'm still waiting on my HCP, and when it does I have a perfectly good S&W 638 to carry. Opinions?

[Guest jimdigriz]

The PPS is a nice gun, but I wouldn't call it "tiny". I originally planned to go with the KT PF9, but the reliability and good shooting feel of the PPS won me over. I have to admit that the Kel Tec would be easier to conceal, and easier to carry (on account of the weight).

[BryanP]

The PPS isn't really tiny, but since I chose the P239 as the top end (sizewise) of what I was looking at, it fit the criteria.

[DWARREN123]

Small size does not make it easier to fire accurately.

I like the SIG 239, cost less than MSRP, holds 8 rounds of 9mm or 7 rounds of 40 S&W.

Anything much smaller and it is too small to handle safely for me.

[redstategunnut]

I'm an advocate of the PM9 because I have one and I have found it to be reliable and concealable. I did not like the PPS magazine release. The Rohrbaugh is not +p rated. I have a KelTec P3AT and it has been a good gun, but the Kahr is superior in quality. I've owned Taurus guns, but I haven't bought one in 15 years so I can't speak to recent quality control. No opinion on the Sig, never had one.

[Guest abailey362]

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/firearms-classifieds/24925-fs-rohrbaugh-r9s-9mm.html

it's tiny and close to you

[oldogy]

I have the Keltec PF9. So far it has been reliable. I did a fluff and buff on it that made it more enjoyable to shoot. The cheap price does not give you the fine finish that only hand fitment can provide. I bought KT because of its size, weight, and ease of concealment.

I could not go with your logic that you keep sending it back to Keltec 'till they get it right. If you don't have the gun it is not doing you any good. For the price, KelTec is hard to beat.

oldogy

Edited August 1, 2009 by oldogy
Punctuation

[Mglock66]

you can't go wrong with the Kahr PM9 or the MK9. I carry the MK40 and love it.

[BryanP]

I could not go with your logic that you keep sending it back to Keltec 'till they get it right. If you don't have the gun it is not doing you any good. For the price, KelTec is hard to beat.

oldogy

Believe me, that logic wouldn't work if it was the only thing I have available.

[BryanP]

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/firearms-classifieds/24925-fs-rohrbaugh-r9s-9mm.html

it's tiny and close to you

Yeah, I saw that. I'm not quite ready to drop a grand on a pistol right now or I'd be talking to you already.

[frontier737]

I used to own a KelTec 9mm. I did not like it: long trigger pull and after a day at the range my hand hurt! Then it started to jam.

Got it repaired under warranty and then sold it. Bought a Glock 26. Much better weapon.

But as they say YMMV.

Edited August 1, 2009 by frontier737

[Guest ScottD]

I have the PF9. It's a nice gun, but not a range shooter. That being said it wasn't designed to be a range shooter, it was designed to be a carry gun. I've had no problems out of it.

You may also want to look @ the Kel-Tec P11. It's a double stack 9mm in a small frame.

[ncomarc]

I'll be checking on this as I'd like to get a 9mm pocket carry gun. I used to carry a G26 IWB, it's to bulky for pocket carry. A TGO member with a good #'s of handguns suggested the Kahr 9mm. I'm waiting till I hold/feel the ones listed and suggested. Get back with you if I stumble upon something.

[nightrunner]

id say the R9 if you can swing it or if not go with the Kahr

[JeffsSig]

Smith & Wesson M&P Compact 9mm

Caliber: 9mm

Capacity: 12+1

Barrel Length: 3.5"

Trigger Pull: 6.5 lbs.

Trigger Travel: Rest to Fire .300 in.

Trigger Reset: Approx. .140 in.

Overall Length: 6.7"

Weight Empty 21.7 oz.

Overall Height: 4.3"

Width: 1.2"

Sight Length: 5.75"

[Guest DEROARK]

I have the PM45 and love it. Make sure it is the PM and not the CW versions. Nothing wrong with them but they are bigger and cheaper.

[DavidCBaker]

Bryan, I have both the PM9 and Rohr.

The Kahr is very well made, very easy to conceal, and shoots like a dream. The recoil you might expect just isn't there. It's turning out to be my favorite small carry gun. It's ugly and utilitarian, but it just plain works.

The Rohr is something I'll keep, just because it's a Rohr. It's harder to shoot well and is almost too small. If you're carrying both in your pocket, the Rohr is better. But on your belt, there is no difference in how well it carries, for me anyway. It is supremely well made and put together by hand.

Of the choices above, I'd definitely get the Kahr, even if you have to save up fo rit a bit.

[Guest 70below]

I'd definitely warn that if you like a "Glock type" trigger......don't go with the Kahr....you'll never be happy with the long pull and no short reset. If they'd just address the trigger I'd probably have at least two Kahrs.

I'm a big fan of the PPS, but I've yet to shoot one. Its number one on my list at the moment.

[greenego]

I found this web site as I am also looking for a pocket carry 9mm.

Semi-automatics at mouseguns.com

It has a spreed sheet that lists a lot of subcompacts of all calibers. My be of help.

[mousegunner]

You might read this too: Defining A True Pocket Pistol

Personally, I have gradually come to accept the GLOCK 26 or 27 as a genuine pocket gun, if you wear loose khakis. For tight jeans or suit pants, nope, they are too bulky. In that situation, you need to downsize to a p3at. Even the PF9 is too much for tight jeans or suit pants.

Edited August 1, 2009 by mousegunner

[Guest dizzielizzie]

I have the Kahr MK9, they are the exact size as the PM and are all stainless. They run around $100 less than the PM and are 8oz heavier. I've been carrying it IWB for about 3 months & have gotten very comfortable with it. I use the 7 round extended clip, the 6 round flush is hard to control.

Call around on pricing... be specific on model, the CW's seen to be their lowest price models. Problems I've been reading on Kahrs tend to lean towards the polymer frame models, they will choke on cheap ammo. There's a very distinct love / hate line with Kahrs...

I guess it all depends on how you would like to carry, pocket or waistband, I believe a few of the models you mentioned above won't fit in the pocket... and don't forget to put the holster (and possibly belt) in your budget!

[lowbud]

I had the PF9 and didn't like it at all. I picked up a Kahr PM40 and never looked back. I pocket carry the LCP or P3AT.

[Guest m4coyote]

I tried the Kel Tec PF9, and it never worked properly. It was a jammer from the beginning, and I sent it back for warranty work. When I received it back, it did not jam, but would regularly not eject a fully loaded magazine. After disclosing it's problems, I sold it to a buddy. It has the same problem to this day, even after another trip to Kel Tec.

I then went the G26 - G27 route. These are truly wonderful pistols. Right out of the box, they function beautifully. I finally came to the conclusion that they were just not intended for pocket carry, and replaced them with a G19.

I was still in need of a pocket pistol, so I checked out a Kahr PM9 at the local Sportsman's Warehouse. I went back a couple of times, looked at it, and finally purchased the PM9 with DLC coated slide, and night sights. I have now pocket carried it every day for two years. It is my constant commpanion.

My PM9 is as accurate as my G19, and has been just as dependable. I have shot over 2000 rounds from it, and have only had one failure. The slide did not fully return to battery at around round 175. Since then, it has not ever failed me. It cost me about $850.00, including tax and background check. Since it is with me always, I have determined that the $850.00 spent on it was a bargain.

[oh58driver]

My daily carry is the PPS, although mine is 40 cal. It is the prefect size for me and easy to conceal, even in shorts. The perceived recoil is good and with the combination of mag and back strap sizes it can easily fit almost any hand.

[crashgordan]

love the Kahr...

can and have had just about everthing out there...

keep going back to the Kahr.

the p9, pm9, p40 and pm40 all excellent.

very tiny, very easy to use.

they do need some time for break in. this is due to the tight tolerances out of the box. suggest 200 rds plus for reliable breakin, then you are golden.

excellent customer service in my experience (only needed it once)

jmho....