Connecticut and gun control

[wjh2657]

With all the talk of “Gun Law Dialogue” the media has completely missed an important point. Connecticut already has in place all of the provisions being discussed . Purchase permits, involving screening by local, state and federal agencies is already the law. Gun show dealers have to obtain background checks. Pistol purchase permits are required  at gun shows.  There is already a federal law prohibiting the purchase of handguns out of state. There is already  a federal law prohibiting the purchase or ownership of a handgun by anyone under twenty one years of age (shooter was twenty years old). There is already a Federal law and a state law prohibiting firearms on school grounds or in school buildings.

 

Everything that the media says they want done, was already done. The laws were in effect in Connecticut at the time of this shooting. Gun Control was already the law of the land in Connecticut.

 

All of these laws, already in force, did not stop the death of twenty small children and 6 adults. This incident is not a “cry for change” as the press is bugling over the airways. We should be looking at gun control as having been accomplished and yet did not stop the violence. Ergo, we have something else that is the problem. There seems to have been no long history of mental health problems that could have flagged this killer. A twenty year old is going to be able to over ride any security measures to secure the weapons from his grasp. It is entirely possible that there was nothing that anybody could have done to prevent this tragedy.

 

The only person I see that could possibly have stopped this was his mother and she is dead so we can't ask her.

[hipower]

Too much logic and common sense to be understood by the media and the masses. You are most certainly right, but getting that out, and understood, by the average uninformed person in the street is next to impossible.

[DaveTN]

There is already  a federal law prohibiting the purchase or ownership of a handgun by anyone under twenty one years of age (shooter was twenty years old).

That isn’t true. You can own a handgun in this state at 18 and buy them in a private sale. You just can’t buy one from an FFL until you are 21. Shooters age would not have been an issue in this state.

[RichardR]

Only the law-abiding abide the law..There simply is no amount of legislation that can prevent a sick person from doing sick stuff.

Prayers to the families.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

That isn’t true. You can own a handgun in this state at 18 and buy them in a private sale. You just can’t buy one from an FFL until you are 21. Shooters age would not have been an issue in this state.

What about Connecticut? That's what he was talking about.

[Oh Shoot]

What about Connecticut? That's what he was talking about.

 

No private handgun sales allowed, so would have to be 21 and go through FFL. No private sales at all at gunshows, but private sales of long guns otherwise okay.

 

There's a purchase "certificate" necessary for handgun purchase too, like NC.

 

So far, all of the deaths at the school have been attributed to the Bushmaster by medical examiner up there. Be surprised if the shooter used it to off himself, though, but maybe. CT also has a "partial assault weapon ban". Can only have x number of features, basically, unless it's an intact rifle made before the orig. federal cutoff in '94. No hicap mag restrictions, though, for pistols or rifles.

 

- OS

Edited December 15, 2012 by Oh Shoot

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I was just steering it back to what wjh was talking about. TN has nothing to do with what he said.

[leroy]

As sad as this one is; it is goin to be a redux of the Jared Laughtner thing regarding the "gun control" issue with a couple of important differences.  Laughtner (...like this kid, apparently...) wuz a nut.  Laughtner bought his gun(s) lawfully and his nutty tendencies were protected by the universities.  He went out and shot and killed several folks.  

 

This 20 year old apparently murdered his mom and stole the guns from her house (...if i wuz reading right...).  This 20 year old nut did a heinous, unthinkable, nutty thing by murdering children and a few adults.  He broke the law; as to both firearms and murder.  No amount of law would have fixed this one.  It is the heinous, nutty act of a mad man.  The real criminals (...outside of this 20 year old...) are the folks who may have coddled and sheltered his tendencies; overlookin the potential for this type crime. 

 

Once the adults start lookin at this one, i predict they will shut up and quit talkin about it because all of what they want in firearms restrictions are in place in the peoples democratic republics of CT and NJ; and some smart guy will bring that up.  There is also that pesky thing (...to them, at least...) called the Second Amendment.  I predict that the usual "we need to tighten up gunlaws" platitudinous baloney will be spoken by the usual jackasses like Bloomberg and others.  Dingy Harry will ignore it in the senate and so will Bohener in the house.

 

leroy

[MattCary]

Very simple; they will apply the logic that they always apply: "The current laws didn't fix it? MORE must be needed."

[Guest tbone]

Everyone,

 

As we return to work next week, surely this tragic event will be the topic of conversation in around many coffee pots and break rooms.  A few talking points to help the uneducated may help.  Allow me to offer these:

 

1) To follow on with what the original post says, with respect to gun control laws.  Never in the history of our country have there been more laws that are intended to control access to guns, yet there have been 11 mass shootings this year.  (I recall getting 11 from CBS news, but it could have been one of the other networks) What is different about our society now than previously?  Is is violence in the media, lack of social skills from youth who are too dependent on "social media"?  Ask questions like these to steer the conversation from gun control to our American society as a whole.

 

2) This should be a debate about mental illness, not gun legislation.  Do we educate people to look for signs of mental illness, especially in youth?  Physiologists have been researching human behavior for over a century.  The science they have produced tells us that violent behavior has indicators and can be predicted.  Why are we not equipping people with tools and resources to do exactly that?

 

3) This should be a question of school safety.  Why are schools not treated like airports or federal court houses or other judicial buildings?  None of these mass shooters ever go to a "hardened" target.  Schools become targets because they are easy.  What can we do to change that?

 

4) Try to keep any conversation a positive dialogue.  Don't let yourself get emotional or lured into a yelling match about 2nd Amendment Rights.  You don't want to look like the stereotypical "gun nut".  Listen to what the other side has to say.  Deliver your counter points as best as you can, but also realize that some people will not change their minds regardless.  If the conversation is going nowhere, then it is time to leave.

 

5) Keep up with the NRA's Institute for Legislative Action.  They can provide key information on other talking points and existing gun laws.  Contact your elected representatives at the state and federal level, make your voice heard!  The anti-gun crowd is certainly going to make a lot of noise, now is not the time to be silent.

[Guest Sooner]

The senseless murders at the school in Connecticut has created yet another clamor by the left to control guns. I fully expected this. My opinion is that the problem is not with guns but with the people who are using them to murder others. A person can kill others just as effectively with a katana as with a gun; should we control Japanese swords? The answer to this problem lies elsewhere. There is a real problem in this country and it has to do with our preoccupation with violence--in video games, in mixed-martial arts, in pro "wrestling", in political discourse (bring a gun to a knife fight), with unions that don't get their way and on and on (and on). Instead of condemning violence, we condemn guns; instead of condemning the person who committed the act of violence, we condemn the weapon; instead of taking an objective look at root causes for violence in this country, we blame an inanimate object. After 9/11, politicians jumped through their ass to create the "Patriot" Act (which is actually the "Last Refuge of Scoundrels Act"). We have lost a great many civil liberties in that "bargain" because many Americans prefer absolute safety to liberty and freedom. I am hoping that the same knee-jerk reaction does not occur this time around. Saner policy must be the outcome including profiling lunatics and getting THEM off the streets and into a padded room. I'm sick to death of the enactment of laws that aren't read by politicians and aren't given a full airing that punish the entire population because the government can't bring themselves to actually do something that will make a difference and address the core issue. The government should be more concerned with getting dangerous people off the streets while leaving law-abiding citizens to their own devices. Policies and laws that insist on making law-abiding people like me jump through hoops to purchase a weapon is NOT making anyone any safer and that is a pesky fact that is never addressed by those who simply don't like guns and don't want anyone else to have them (except, of course, for the criminals who will get them because they do not *care* about laws). Profiling is one of the answers and NOT the politically correct, one-size-fits-all policy of punishing everyone for the actions of a few hundredths of one percent of the population.

[wjh2657]

posted by tbone: " This should be a question of school safety. Why are schools not treated like airports or federal court houses or other judicial buildings? None of these mass shooters ever go to a "hardened" target. Schools become targets because they are easy. What can we do to change that?"

 

1. This has been tried. Time involved (you obviously have never seen 300 "Little People" hit the door in a 15 minute time span) means that you would get no teaching done.

2. Perp in this case busted into school past security measures. He would have just breezed through metal detector.

3. Slow down traffic and some students will use chance to skip or go play.

4. Parents don't like search procedures for themselves and over ride by coming in through another entrance, BG will do same. Forget the "parents will do what you want because they want security for their kids argument. Parents revert to "little people" mentality as soon as they enter school grounds (they don't like school authorities). Yes, I am sure that the parents at this school no longer feel that way, a little too late.

 

(I am retired teacher btw, both Elementary and High School)

[SonnyCrockett]

we spend 6.5 billion a year keeping airports safe

for that occasional shoe bomber.......

Lets (IMO) slow down the airport security , its over secured anyways and 

put some of that skin in the game of school security  - armed guards is a good start

Ending NO GUN zones is another

 

02 

Edited December 16, 2012 by SonnyCrockett

[Guest 6.8 AR]

It's always cause and effect decision making. Security isn't the issue. That kid would have done this one way or another.

Had nothing to do with a gun, either. It had more to do with the way the kid was raised, his mental instability and maybe

other things we don't know about.

 

If a gun ban or other method of control is enacted or EO'd, it won't change things unless something else is going on we

don't know about. I doubt there will be a mass turning in of guns because of this, except the usual people who think they

are doing good, which is next to no one in numbers, but highly publicized. In the southern states there will probably be a

spike in permits and in sales of gun(already going on). Bloomberg and Brady will make absolute fools of themselves,

which will entice Obama to "do something" and I think he will EO his way into a mess.

 

I listened to Herman Cain, who is replacing Neal Boortz on his talk show, and his theme was "America is unhappy". He is

on to something with that. We keep drifting in the wrong direction and passing feel good laws or passing the debt on to

the next generation and look what we have. Compound this with all the societal woes like this tragedy and the shootings

in the malls around the country and we have a mess. You have the entitlement crowd, also, who think everyone owes them

something and what does all that add up to? Let's not forget the race baiting going, either.

 

None of this is an easy fix and gun control won't fix a bit of it, but we can be assured that will be one on the top of the list

of things done to fix all the mistakes above. The Affordable Care Act will be instituted in it's entirety to further control us

in ways we never imagined to the point that we will resemble a police state. If there is anyone around here who thinks

the government can fix any of these problems, I hope you get in line to get your head examined at the clinic. That will

finally show you how one way of gun control will actually work.

[styx]

Well Guys.....I don't think the anti-gunners really care who or how many are killed. They just ride every possible excuse to push the disarming of America. They have to disarm the country before they can put us in bondage.

[Guest tbone]

wjh2657...Sonny Crockett stated exactly what I had in mind with my original post.  I don't question your observations about the behavior of children and adults, but more can be done to secure schools.  As far as the public discussion is concerned, It is better to get people thinking in terms of improving school security rather than having them asking "what more can be done to ban guns"  

 

6.8AR...you hit on a key point also.  There IS something going on in the culture of our country. We need to focus in on that and change it for the positive, the public dialogue needs to go in that direction.

[Guest 270win]

Connecticut has pretty strict gun laws compared to a lot of places.  This boy broke so many laws on so many levels.  He murdered his mother, stole her guns, did not have a license to carry a pistol, was under 21 and had in his possession handguns in Conn (yes i know fed law says 18 but Conn is 21), possessed a firearm on a school campus in Conn (illegal with or without a license up there from what I see).

 

You can't legislate out meanness.  That is something inside that a politician can't fix.

[Proscene]

The senseless murders at the school in Connecticut has created yet another clamor by the left to control guns. I fully expected this. My opinion is that the problem is not with guns but with the people who are using them to murder others. A person can kill others just as effectively with a katana as with a gun; should we control Japanese swords? The answer to this problem lies elsewhere. There is a real problem in this country and it has to do with our preoccupation with violence--in video games, in mixed-martial arts, in pro "wrestling", in political discourse (bring a gun to a knife fight), with unions that don't get their way and on and on (and on). Instead of condemning violence, we condemn guns; instead of condemning the person who committed the act of violence, we condemn the weapon; instead of taking an objective look at root causes for violence in this country, we blame an inanimate object. After 9/11, politicians jumped through their ass to create the "Patriot" Act (which is actually the "Last Refuge of Scoundrels Act"). We have lost a great many civil liberties in that "bargain" because many Americans prefer absolute safety to liberty and freedom. I am hoping that the same knee-jerk reaction does not occur this time around. Saner policy must be the outcome including profiling lunatics and getting THEM off the streets and into a padded room. I'm sick to death of the enactment of laws that aren't read by politicians and aren't given a full airing that punish the entire population because the government can't bring themselves to actually do something that will make a difference and address the core issue. The government should be more concerned with getting dangerous people off the streets while leaving law-abiding citizens to their own devices. Policies and laws that insist on making law-abiding people like me jump through hoops to purchase a weapon is NOT making anyone any safer and that is a pesky fact that is never addressed by those who simply don't like guns and don't want anyone else to have them (except, of course, for the criminals who will get them because they do not *care* about laws). Profiling is one of the answers and NOT the politically correct, one-size-fits-all policy of punishing everyone for the actions of a few hundredths of one percent of the population.

Sooner- I like your post! Its easy to blame guns and overlook the real issues. That's what the bleeding Liberals go for each and every time. By the way of all the mass kilings, there have only been a handful of perps that were under 21. Most borrowed or stole the guns used in the crimes and in this case according to news reports it appears that guns weren't the main culprit, the assault weapon was. Violent video games kids spend hours a day in front of, copycat ideas weirdos get from news sensationalism and violent music and movies should be banned too if we are going to go down this road.

Our government and poli-crookins never address problems directly, they like to apply MORE rules and regulations such as building a billion dollar border wall using tax payer money instead of removing all incentives for illegals to come here. Gun control is just another manipulative tool they try and use to achieve their agendas. I for one am not quite as worried about Feinstein as I am about Bloomberg!

Edited December 17, 2012 by Proscene

[Oh Shoot]

...and had in his possession handguns in Conn (yes i know fed law says 18 but Conn is 21)...

 

Just a note, you probably got that wrong in haste -- but the only thing Federal law mandates about age is that you have to be 18 to buy long gun and 21 to buy a handgun from an FFL, and same for ammo for each (though that part seems seldom to never actively enforced in reality).

 

All other matters of age regarding buying/selling/ownership/possession of firearms is determined by each individual state.

 

- OS

[Oh Shoot]

I'll still opine that the only thing for almost dead sure is gonna happen is a ban on all private sales. But I've been saying that long before this in CT.

 

It's something the GOP (and NRA) will settle for.

 

Makes perfect sense, because none of the mass killers in the last several years have gotten their guns through private sales! That's perfect DC political sense, of course.

 

- OS

[Jonnin]

on the SAME page of my web news, on the same day, I see that 22 young children were stabbed by a nut job in china.  That is correct --- about the same number of victims (though less fatal) from some idiot with a KNIFE.  

 

Meanwhile I count more than 5 adult victims here who were disarmed by our laws and unable to fight back against this guy. 

 

The obvious gun control laws broken directly by this guy:

1) Documented mentally ill person unsupervised with a weapon

2) shooting people

3) gun on school property

4) theft of guns

5) possible underage possession (???) (state law? not sure, this would be the stolen handguns which were not used?)

6) discharge inside city limits

7) loaded handguns without permit

8) loaded rifle not in a hunting area and without a permit

 

.....

 

I am not at all surprised by the left making hay with this, but their illogic is eye opening and astounding.  He broke every law on the books, but they want more laws.  The laws prevented stopping this guy, but they want more laws.  He could have done as much damage with a good shank, but its a gun problem.  0/10 across the board for using any sort of logic or problem solving skills on this one.

Edited December 17, 2012 by Jonnin

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Tells you how much a law accomplish when a person wants to do something. Laws just restrict people from stopping

the problem. So much for a government doing anything right.

[subsonic]

Not surprising that this bit of related news has been filtered out by the MSM:

 

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/12/oops-liberal-media-forgets-to-report-on-man-with-concealed-carry-permit-confronted-portland-shooter-video/

 

Clearly doesn't fit the narrative and gun ban agenda. Ironically, reports from the Newtown shooting are that the shooter killed himself at the first sign of police on site, exactly like in the Oregon event, except is was a private citizen instead of police.