Child Killer

[Guest bkelm18]

Our system of justice is not perfect; just the most perfect in the world. I can't say I followed the case that closely but from what I do know about, it seemed to me that the prosecution had a lot of theory and not much evidence - certainly not evidence that actually connected the women to her child's death. Above that, when I listened to some of the prosecution's case it seemed they couldn't even decide on any "one" theory about what happened or why.

Bottom line is, the jury heard all the evidence without the media telling them what they should think and all 12 agreed that the prosecution didn't prove her guilty beyond a reasonable doubt...I can live with that and in any case, I'd rather see a guilty person go free than an innocent person spend the rest of his/her life in a jail cell (or worse).

I forget how the old saying goes, but I'd rather 5 guilty people go free than one innocent person go to jail.

[Jonnin]

Last story from the press that supposedly wants her guilty was the kid drowned by accident. If that story was ever refuted or changed, I didnt hear about it, but I have not been following it and don't watch TV. I certainly never saw a headline that physical evidence was displayed to give a strong sense of foul play or anything, just a lot of hand waving and not a lot of evidence for the public to know about.

Oh -- and not only did 12 agree to not guilty, they did it FAST for this type of case with this much time spent etc. I expected a daily "no verdict yet" report for at least another week.

[wjh2657]

1. 
   
2. P*** poor police work. (Retrieval of remains and burial area investigation really sucked.)
   
3. PP forensics work. Too many "it smelled likes" and not enough chemical analysis reports.
   
4. No firm cause of death.
   
5. No firm time of death.
   
6. No firm date of death!
   
7. No way of directly tying mother to crime due to above.
   
8. Stupidity by prosecutor in trying for First Degree Murder conviction based on above.
   There were probably many things they could have tried her for, but not for murder!
   
   Was she involved, h*** yeah, and lied about it too. But there remains reasonable doubt as to whether she actually killed the little girl herself and that was what they tried her for. They left a sane jury no choice but to acquit for lack of evidence.
   
   Also, too many people reaching for ropes around here after a few drinks at the saloon. I have served on juries and it is a lot easier to find somebody guilty in front of a TV with a couple of beers than it is to try to sift through the evidence and testimony in a real court case. The prosecution really screwed this one up, and the worst thing is that they didn't even realize it. They were shocked at the verdict (as was "super prosecutor" , Nancy Grace.)
   
   They tried her for being a lousy mother (good chance that charge was right) but they never proved her to be a murderer.
   
   Nothing wrong with justice system. System worked, prosecutors fell down on the job. They should have tried her on lesser charges or waited until they had firm evidence to start proceedings.
   

[redfsr]

jDo you really need to call her that? Does it really make you feel better? do you feel like a big man because you did? did it make your balls feel a little bigger in the process?

Yes, I felt the need to call her that [however I realize it was not appropriate and have edited it]. There is no doubt in my mind she killed her kid. As a father, I have that gut feeling. She went out and partied like a rock star, got a tattoo that translated to "the good life" all while her 2 yr old girl was lying at the bottom of a swamp. I don't buy the drowning scenario one bit. Who would cover up a drowning to make it look like a murder?

I understand why she was acquitted. I'm just angry that justice wasn't served for the dead little girl. Regardless of what was put out by the media, the fact is, a little girl is dead and her mother seemed to be thrilled.

[Mike.357]

She was found not guilty. Somehow I feel the jury was better to decide that than the media or people who think they knew better from watching TV.

Bottom line it the prosecutor did not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Casey killed anyone. I am fairly sure they proved beyond any doubt that she was a horrible mother, but that is not death penalty crime.

[deerslayer]

As a father, I have that gut feeling.

Hope you never make it past jury selection.

[Oh Shoot]

Since my mom was really into the thing, I watched the last week of it. ALL of it, including the endless commentary on HLN afterwards. Even got hooked enough to read up on what I had missed, and even !get up early! back home to watch the closing arguments.

If I were on the jury, no way I could have found her guilty of the three main charges either.

- OS

[Guest ThePunisher]

I'll bet those 12 jurors also voted for Barack. Unbelievable justice or injustice. Another OJ case.

[Guest mosinon]

Yes, I felt the need to call her that [however I realize it was not appropriate and have edited it]. There is no doubt in my mind she killed her kid. As a father, I have that gut feeling. She went out and partied like a rock star, got a tattoo that translated to "the good life" all while her 2 yr old girl was lying at the bottom of a swamp. I don't buy the drowning scenario one bit. Who would cover up a drowning to make it look like a murder?

I understand why she was acquitted. I'm just angry that justice wasn't served for the dead little girl. Regardless of what was put out by the media, the fact is, a little girl is dead and her mother seemed to be thrilled.

I get where you are coming from but convicting people on "gut feelings", even though it happens a bunch I'm sure, is not how I want the justice system to work.

If I were on the jury I'm not sure I could find her guilty of anything other than being a terrible person. Being a terrible human isn't against the law.

Though I will admit I'm as bad as anyone else. I think, from my limited exposure that she did it. And, emotionally I feel like she should be punished severely for it. And I am angry she wasn't. I also realize I haven't put the work in to make that judgment. But the emotions are almost impossible to resist.

[Warbird]

She was found not guilty. Somehow I feel the jury was better to decide that than the media or people who think they knew better from watching TV.

Bottom line it the prosecutor did not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Casey killed anyone. I am fairly sure they proved beyond any doubt that she was a horrible mother, but that is not death penalty crime.

She was found not guilty as Mike said. This is very different from being innocent. It is the standard of a criminal trial and the burden is entirely upon the prosecution to prove beyond reasonable doubt the guilt of the accused. I am even on a day like this thankful fro the legal system we have in place.

It has warmed my heart reading many of the responses here, on this a very sad day remembering a little girl who's life was taken, that emotion and feeling less importance in a courtroom and deliberation room, than do facts. There are no winners here. As a father I do not understand the terrible evil that some must have to kill children. I also know that the burden of proof must be very high and as another put it from age old saying, that better many guilty men go free, than one innocent man be convicted.

Based on what I saw and what I know of the judges instructions I think the jury probably got this case right. I also do not think Casey Anthony is innocent. We likely never know what happened here. For those who believe in a an afterlife, I think you can wish for justice at one point given no great heart rendering change comes to the guilty person(s). However if the devout are right, then God's capacity for forgiveness is certainly bigger than most humans. Me included.

[strickj]

Yes, I felt the need to call her that [however I realize it was not appropriate and have edited it]. There is no doubt in my mind she killed her kid. As a father, I have that gut feeling. She went out and partied like a rock star, got a tattoo that translated to "the good life" all while her 2 yr old girl was lying at the bottom of a swamp. I don't buy the drowning scenario one bit. Who would cover up a drowning to make it look like a murder?

I understand why she was acquitted. I'm just angry that justice wasn't served for the dead little girl. Regardless of what was put out by the media, the fact is, a little girl is dead and her mother seemed to be thrilled.

You can not look at the latter actions to determine guilt.

You may handle death by mourning and crying. But, some may kill themselves. Others may celebrate the life of the lost and never shed a single tear. Some may turn to work or hobbies to keep their minds active. Some may turn to alcohol to deaden the pain.

There are as many ways to handle death as there are personalities. And they're all completely normal.

Looks like she turned to the company of friends and alcohol to get through it. I have done the same thing (minus the club\bar). And that's normal, too. The only thing making it seem "just not right" is the media. Casey is simply young and beautiful. Her daughter was simply the cutest little girl ever. That's a combination for excellent ratings when you throw in the concept of murder.

If we're going to start convicting people for drinking and getting a tattoo after the death of a loved one, then I should be locked up, too.

[Guest m&pc9]

I cant wait for the reality show!

[Guest clownsdd]

Nope, if the jury didn't unanimously agree it would be a mistrial. Acquittal works the same as being found guilty - all 12 had to agree she was not guilty.

Thanks

[Guest bkelm18]

I'll bet those 12 jurors also voted for Barack. Unbelievable justice or injustice. Another OJ case.

Don't be ridiculous. You have the majority of people on this board who I'm pretty sure didn't vote for Obama saying they agree with the verdict, myself included. There simply was not enough evidence to convict her of 1st Degree Murder. The prosecution dropped the ball on this one. Did she do it? Who knows. Thankfully the jury didn't buy into the media frenzy and focused on the evidence presented. That's the way justice should work. Unfortunately, it doesn't always work how you want it to. Don't let your desire to find justice turn into a witch hunt.

Edited July 6, 2011 by bkelm18

[1gewehr]

The system worked. In spite of a media frenzy which pre-determined the guilt, a jury looked at all the evidence and decided that the prosecution could not prove the charges beyond a reasonable doubt.

Is the system perfect? Of course not. The best thing that I can say about it is that it works better than any other system that mankind has tried.

Karma is a b!tch, though. This woman may make some money in the short term from her notoriety, but it won't last. And after it is gone, who will hire her? At best, she will be a sideshow freak.

[G27]

AFAIC, this post from another board sums my feelings up perfectly:

I'm going to make one post on the subject, and not another word after it.

Yesterday we had fireworks and bands and beer and hot dogs to celebrate the fact that 235 years ago, we stood up and said "We're not going to do things the same way as it's been done before." Today that was proven in our court system.

A person went on trial, to be judged by a jury of her peers, with representation on both sides. The accused, even after spending more than two years in jail, was considered INNOCENT from the moment she walked in the door. The accuser - in this case, the state of FL - had the burden to proven that SHE was the person responsible for a death. They failed to do that. The defense has NOTHING to prove - EVER - in a criminal court in the US.

The defendant is ALWAYS innocent unless and until a jury finds otherwise, beyond a reasonable doubt. It doesn't matter what you think. What you FEEL doesn't weigh in court decisions. It shouldn't. It CAN'T. Courtrooms are not ruled by passion, they're ruled by provable, incontrovertible FACTS. Those facts were NOT present in this case, and the men and women on the jury decided that.

For those of you screaming about the "injustice" that happened, you couldn't be further from the truth. 'Justice' is not synonymous with 'punishment'. That's not the way it works. And if you don't have the ability to set aside your emotional responses to serve impartially, I pray you NEVER get called for jury duty for anyone I know and care about. I would prefer a trial to a lynch mob that so many seem to want in this case.

Justice is blind. It cares not for the PASSION of the people, but for the FACTS. This is what separates us from other nations that we mock and ridicule. This is what it means to be "innocent until proven guilty."

[MphsTiger1981]

We do not have a justice system in America, but rather a legal system. For those of us who believe there is a life after this one there is a justice system where we will all have to answer for our lives lived.

[Guest WyattEarp]

Yes, I felt the need to call her that [however I realize it was not appropriate and have edited it]. There is no doubt in my mind she killed her kid. As a father, I have that gut feeling. She went out and partied like a rock star, got a tattoo that translated to "the good life" all while her 2 yr old girl was lying at the bottom of a swamp. I don't buy the drowning scenario one bit. Who would cover up a drowning to make it look like a murder?

I understand why she was acquitted. I'm just angry that justice wasn't served for the dead little girl. Regardless of what was put out by the media, the fact is, a little girl is dead and her mother seemed to be thrilled.

no doubt in your mind based off what? What the media reported and twisted to their liking?

When my grandfather died of lung cancer (at the time I would have told you he was ripped away from me by God, because I was so angry) when I was 16, I uh....did the same thing. I went out and I got drunk with friends to forget the pain (and in the process I did a lot of stupid **** and looking back, I can't believe I did any of it), I raised 10 kinds of hell, I destroyed property, I provoked fights.

Don't be angry at Casey Anthony for the justice system failing. Be angry at the detectives and prosecutor's, who brought half-assed charges, put on a half-assed trial at the expense of the taxpayers, based on half-assed circumstantial evidence that didn't hold enough water to float a boat made out of popsickle sticks.

there's been a lot of detectives on police forces around the world, who went "on their gut" and turned out to be wrong and the wrong person ended up going to prison for a crime they didn't commit.

The death of Caylee Anthony is sad and tragic, and to this point unexplained, but you can't (morally) go around pegging people as guilty or not guilty, just because of what you see on TV, what you read in some newspaper, because you're not getting all the facts, you don't know all the details.

She was found not guilty. Somehow I feel the jury was better to decide that than the media or people who think they knew better from watching TV.

Bottom line it the prosecutor did not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Casey killed anyone. I am fairly sure they proved beyond any doubt that she was a horrible mother, but that is not death penalty crime.

well said Mike

I'll bet those 12 jurors also voted for Barack. Unbelievable justice or injustice. Another OJ case.

I didn't vote for Obama, but I dont think she was guilty. As for being another OJ Case...OJ wasn't white. she is. the correlation is far from even being considered accurate. OJ was a famous black athlete, and movie actor (albeit not a very good one) and a history of domestic violence against Nicole. Casey Anthony is just a young white, American girl next door (former mother) who has never had any fame or wealth, never been in trouble with the law, no history of violence, no priors, so I hardly can see any comparison being logically made between the two, aside from the fact that both were the defendants in high profile murder trials.

I get where you are coming from but convicting people on "gut feelings", even though it happens a bunch I'm sure, is not how I want the justice system to work.

If I were on the jury I'm not sure I could find her guilty of anything other than being a terrible person. Being a terrible human isn't against the law.

it's not how our justice system is supposed to work. sure she's an irresponsible, immature, and careless mom, but that's not a crime.

We do not have a justice system in America, but rather a legal system. For those of us who believe there is a life after this one there is a justice system where we will all have to answer for our lives lived.

I disagree. Look at the Amanda Knox trial in Italy. that's not Justice, that's a legal system there. That case has been ripped to shreds by legal analysts here in the States. I can only go by what I saw in the media, and for all I know they are painting poor Amanda Knox as a US Citizen wrongfully painted in a murderous light by the Italian police, and it is hard to not believe what you see in the media, so I have not decided whether she is guilty or not, I'd like to think she is not guilty based on the interviews with her friends and family, and that she's a foreign exchange student who was in the wrong place at the wrong time, but the fact of the matter is, we never really know who someone is, unless they want us to know who they are. We all have secrets deep inside, we all have things about us we don't want other people to know. I also know foreign police do things differently than our police departments do here. In my Criminal Justice class last semester that I took at MTSU, our Professor said he's traveled to European Police Agencies to help train their investigative detectives on procedure, evidence collecting, and he said they were 3rd rate at best. But chain-of-custody, contaminated evidence, and evidence collecting procedures don't mean **** over there, and are never scrutinized at trial. That said, Amanda Knox (who is from Seattle, Washington) is doing 26 years in an Italian prison for murder, and no one but her (or if she is in fact innocent, the person who committed the murder) knows the truth.

We have a justice system here. It is not perfect, but to date, it's the best justice system in the world. If the media circus was taken out of the equation, I don't think the perception many have of our justice system would be as negatively viewed as it is now.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Was hoping that the resolution of the trial would squelch the wall-to-wall media coverage and allow me to un-mute the TV, but no joy yet. It was even worse than usual yesterday and they are still harping on it today.

Juries do what they are sposed to do and I do not argue with the verdict. But will be interesting if Anthony gets off with time served or perhaps one more year for lying.

I know of a woman about Casey Anthony's age who happened to "be in the vicinity" of a gangster killing and then she was less than forthcoming with the police, who I think has been in jail longer than four years and is only up for probation this year or the next.

[LawVol]

chalk this one up to Blackstone, I guess.

Personally, I thought the prosecution put on a pretty compelling case. Body in a laundry bag, duct tape over the mouth and nose, dumped in a swamp. Looks like homicide to me. The prosecution put on evidence that the laundry bag and duct tape almost certainly came from the Anthony home. There was no evidence or allegation that Caylee was abducted from the Anthony home (of course, there was the admitted lie about Zanny the Nanny taking her from a park). So, which Anthony family member did it? Who made up a bunch of lies and intentionally hindered the effort to find the little girl?

I guess if the police had found the body sooner (and it seems like they should have), maybe the cause of death could have determined. That missing element was important to alternate juror 5. Maybe the others felt the same way.

[MphsTiger1981]

I disagree. Look at the Amanda Knox trial in Italy. that's not Justice, that's a legal system there. That case has been ripped to shreds by legal analysts here in the States. I can only go by what I saw in the media, and for all I know they are painting poor Amanda Knox as a US Citizen wrongfully painted in a murderous light by the Italian police, and it is hard to not believe what you see in the media, so I have not decided whether she is guilty or not, I'd like to think she is not guilty based on the interviews with her friends and family, and that she's a foreign exchange student who was in the wrong place at the wrong time, but the fact of the matter is, we never really know who someone is, unless they want us to know who they are. We all have secrets deep inside, we all have things about us we don't want other people to know. I also know foreign police do things differently than our police departments do here. In my Criminal Justice class last semester that I took at MTSU, our Professor said he's traveled to European Police Agencies to help train their investigative detectives on procedure, evidence collecting, and he said they were 3rd rate at best. But chain-of-custody, contaminated evidence, and evidence collecting procedures don't mean **** over there, and are never scrutinized at trial. That said, Amanda Knox (who is from Seattle, Washington) is doing 26 years in an Italian prison for murder, and no one but her (or if she is in fact innocent, the person who committed the murder) knows the truth.

We have a justice system here. It is not perfect, but to date, it's the best justice system in the world. If the media circus was taken out of the equation, I don't think the perception many have of our justice system would be as negatively viewed as it is now.

Wyatt,

I'm not very familiar with the Amanda Knox case, other than seeing some of it on 48 Hours or some of the other network news shows. Nor I am not an expert on Italian law, but if I'm not mistaken, and I may be, their legal system is loosely based upon the Inquisitorial System as opposed to our adversarial system of law, so it's sort of like comparing apples and oranges.

An inquisitorial system is a legal system where the court or a part of the court is actively involved in investigating the facts of the case, as opposed to an adversarial system where the role of the court is primarily that of an impartial referee between the prosecution and the defense.

I agree that the media needs to back off and allow the system to do it's job. In a case like the one yesterday, it was actually two trials, one in the courtroom and the other by the media, i.e. the talking heads on TV, newspapers, magazines, blogs on the internet, etc. Whether we call it a "justice" system or a "legal" system, I agree with you in that if I or one of my friends or family was on trial, there is no place I'd want that trial other than here in America. Our system is flawed, but as you point out it works better than any other system currently in place in the world.

[RobertNashville]

Not necessarily, don't take but one.

No...for a verdict, guilty or not guilty; ALL jurors must agree (if I'm wrong about that someone please correct me).

[DaveTN]

A little girl is dead.

If her Mother killed her and dumped her body; there is no justice for her and our system failed miserably.

If her Mother is innocent; the system worked.

I didn’t watch the trial so I don’t know if she did it or not. Those of you that watched know if she did it or not.

[Guest WyattEarp]

Wyatt,

I'm not very familiar with the Amanda Knox case, other than seeing some of it on 48 Hours or some of the other network news shows. Nor I am not an expert on Italian law, but if I'm not mistaken, and I may be, their legal system is loosely based upon the Inquisitorial System as opposed to our adversarial system of law, so it's sort of like comparing apples and oranges.

An inquisitorial system is a legal system where the court or a part of the court is actively involved in investigating the facts of the case, as opposed to an adversarial system where the role of the court is primarily that of an impartial referee between the prosecution and the defense.

I agree that the media needs to back off and allow the system to do it's job. In a case like the one yesterday, it was actually two trials, one in the courtroom and the other by the media, i.e. the talking heads on TV, newspapers, magazines, blogs on the internet, etc. Whether we call it a "justice" system or a "legal" system, I agree with you in that if I or one of my friends or family was on trial, there is no place I'd want that trial other than here in America. Our system is flawed, but as you point out it works better than any other system currently in place in the world.

I dont know about the Italian's type of system, it may be comparing apples to oranges, but still our justice system is the best in the world, but as with anything and everything on this planet, it has it's flaws and it's not perfect.

[Oh Shoot]

.... And after it is gone, who will hire her? At best, she will be a sideshow freak.

In ways you may have not considered, she'll likely make plenty of money.

She's a celebrity now ... America has a very twisted way of rewarding even celebrities they hate with money in one way or the other.

As Bernie Goldberg puts it on O'Reilly, "We live in the United States of Entertainment."

- OS