L.A. police find stash of 1,200 guns in dead man's home

[Luap]

 

If I wake up dead tomorrow morning, I'd like my stuff to stay in place until my family decides to divvy it up amongst themselves.

Let me know how that goes.  hehe

[Ugly]

Pure demonization.

Are they gonna check his knives? Steel toe boots? Sharp sticks and anything else that can be used to cause harm?

Of course not.

[shotgunshooter]

Pure demonization.

Are they gonna check his knives? Steel toe boots? Sharp sticks and anything else that can be used to cause harm?

Of course not.

Don't forget rocks, hammers, or screwdrivers.

[TNWNGR]

I figured this story would generate all of the how and why questions on the guns being seized, and yes it was a seizure. ESSONE and DAVETN have correctly summarized it and laid it out. This is an active unattended death investigation, deal with it, the only issue here is the number of guns involved making it newsworthy. As to who get what back and when, well that's going to depend on if there was a will, heirs and everything being probated. The board fixation here is on the number of guns seized and what's going to happen to them. The question about police setting up at the firing range to check serial numbers is irrelevant to this topic.  

[gjohnsoniv]

........................................As for the guns... would they be treating it the same if he'd had 1200 pairs of shoes? I bet not........................ Only if you can figure out a way to pull an armed robbery with a pair of shoes.


.........................................................Oh, and one last thing... Would anybody here be okay with the police setting up shop at your local shooting range, and checking the serial number of every gun that comes in there to make sure it wasn't stolen or been involved in a crime? Oh, and also verifying how/where you got them?...............................................This question has absolutely nothing to do with the subject under discussion.

What about Rosa Kleb's shoe? What then?

[TNWNGR]

What about Rosa Kleb's shoe? What then?

Probably about the same thing as the KGB umbrella...

[OldHat63]

The result would have been the same from a court. No one is going to leave 1200 firearms in a house where the neighbors know the owner is dead. The same people complaining about the Police would be complaining and blaming the Police if they were stolen.
 

 

Yes, a court would probably order the house searched if no relatives or other responsible parties were turned up. And it would no doubt order any valuables to be removed and locked up. BUT... no one would even be aware of the guns until after that point. As for the neighbors... they didn't notice the guy was "down the road" and dead, so it's unlikely they'd know what if anything he owned.

( Edit: I looked up Pacific Palisades, and this is NOT out in the middle of nowhere. Looks like typical "California Suburbia" to me, if there's any such thing. The fellow should have been parked near somebody's house, but apparently took a while to draw attention? California is weird... )

 

You don’t need a warrant to enter a dead person’s home on an investigation. A dead body was found in a car, cause of death is not known, they are going to go check his home.

 

 

Dead in the residence, no, certainly not. Dead on the property, with the house standing open, or showing signs of B&E... nope, no warrant needed.  Dead some distance from the property, and no signs of a crime being committed?  Wouldn't have worked around here, 18 years ago. It might now, post-9/11, but I wouldn't want to bet the farm on it.

 

A fellow that lives just down the road from me has a building behind his house with over a million dollars worth of vintage/classic cars in it. He also has an extensive gun collection, from what I've heard. His wife died from cancer a couple of years back, so he lives there alone now.

 

Now, if this fellow ends up being found dead in his yard, car keys in hand, so sign of trauma or struggle, and his house locked up... do you think the local S.O. is gonna search the house and clean the place out, cart all the vehicles to impound, and check all the serial numbers on the guns.... or are they gonna secure the premises, call his kids, and wait 'til one of 'em gets there?

 

The news article was pretty vague on details, but it sounds like the person in question probably had some sort of medical emergency, managed to pull over, and died.  No crime. No crime scene. 

 

The fact he sat there long enough to begin to noticeably decay says to me he was there at least 12-24 hours... at least that's my best guess for California in the summer.  And nobody noticed for that long?  Quiet neighborhood then. Good chance none of his neighbors even knew he wasn't home.

 

There was also no mention of whether or not the house was locked or unlocked. 

 

Like I said, there's a lot the article doesn't say.

 

Just to make it clear... our recent shooter in Chattanooga died away from home... after committing several crimes. Yes, search his residence, you have reason.  Someone has a heart attack behind the wheel of their car, but doesn't cause death or injury to others... what they have at home plays no part in the officer's involvement. Shouldn't anyway... Maybe it does these days, and the 4th amendment is as worthless as the 2nd.
 

No one as of yet is claiming the guns are illegal or illegally obtained. As of yet it doesn’t sound like they have refused to turn them over to a family member.

 

 And yet the police are gonna spend the time, energy, and money to haul 'em in, run all the numbers, etc.  And also risk being accused of possibly "losing" some of them if someone turns up claiming intimate knowledge of what was in the house and saying the PD inventory list is wrong and that all were not returned.

 

 

No, probably not.

 

 

Why not? 1200 pairs of expensive shoes could be as valuable as the guns.  And personal property is just that.

At an average value of $300, that guy's gun collection would be worth $360,000.00.

 

That's an awful lot of money to trust to police impound if it doesn't have to be.

 

 

No.

 

Why not? That's effectively what they're doing to this fellow.  And this is after claiming they don't believe he was doing or had done anything wrong. Why are the two things so different?  Hell, he wasn't even carrying or using the guns at the time; they were AT HOME. And unless there was signs of forced entry, locked up as well.
 
 

What would you do if you were the Senior Officer on the scene, you have a responsibility to secure the man’s property, you have a responsibility to keep the community safe, and you took both those responsibilities seriously?

 

 

 

Secured the incident/crime scene, looked the situation over while the CID folks were en route, and try to determine as best I could what had happened. ( No blood, or signs of violence? The body basically intact? Seat belt on, keys in the ignition switch? Best guess: Medical problem of some kind, most likely.) Next would be to identify the person and their address. Either go myself or send someone to determine the state of said residence. Locked up tight, or the doors kicked in?  Locked up tight, leave it alone until told otherwise. Get someone to try and contact relatives, friends, etc.

Door kicked in? Secondary crime scene... which also makes the dead guy in the car part of the PRIMARY crime scene.  Repeat as above, but search open residence, proceed from there.

 

No where in there does anything inside the residence make any difference until it's been determined that a crime of some kind has been committed.  It could be guns, swords and knives, sports collectables, etc.  It doesn't matter. All that gets sorted out later once attempts have been made to contact someone connected with our dead body.

 

Does that about cover it?

Edited July 23, 2015 by OldHat63

[OldHat63]

 

This question has absolutely nothing to do with the subject under discussion.

 

 

It has everything to do with the subject under discussion.

See my reply to DaveTN and maybe you can work out how.

 

And don't put it past some damned fool to attempt a robbery with a high-heel as a weapon. Stranger things have been known to happen. :shake:

( Don't make me hunt up the article about the woman who went to jail for assaulting her partner with a dildo... )

Edited July 23, 2015 by OldHat63

[DaveTN]

 

 

Does that about cover it?

No, but this does, it's why crime scenes are secured and houses entered.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-lapd-guns-20150720-story.html

[gregintenn]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/dead-man-with-cache-of-1200-guns-identified-he-was-just-a-loner/ar-AAdmkla

 

 

"He was either into doomsday survivalism, gun collecting or both," Hayes said, adding that the man appeared to be wealthy.

 

^Thanks for this report Captain Obvious.^ :ugh:

 

It seems he's been identified. Looks like they are going to pull out all the stops to find something wrong simply because they didn't like the fact this guy had a large gun collection.

[Oh Shoot]

.....

It seems he's been identified. Looks like they are going to pull out all the stops to find something wrong simply because they didn't like the fact this guy had a large gun collection.

 

Remember one big difference between Kali and TN (and the vast majority of other states):

 

There, lots of common firearm configurations are illegal. Here, only certain unstamped NFA items are.

 

- OS

[OldHat63]

No, but this does, it's why crime scenes are secured and houses entered.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-lapd-guns-20150720-story.html

 

Big difference between that story and the first piece, huh? But then we all knew it wasn't the whole story or even close to the truth, didn't we? ( Nor is this one likely to be. )

Doesn't change a thing I said earlier though, since there was no mention of a lawyer, the fiancee or the fact the condo was hers.

 

I still find it a bit odd that they maintain that there's not been any crime committed though... Are we to assume that it's okay to leave dead bodies wherever you please in California?

A: "Ralph just died! Whatta we do???"

B: "Just roll 'im out to the parking lot. Somebody'll pick 'im up, sooner or later."

A: "Really? You can do that here? In the summer no less? Won't he stink?"

B: "Yeah, this is California... We leave the stinkers curb-side here. Figure it's better to let the pros handle the mess."

"Plus it gives the cops and reporters something to do."

:shake: :shrug: 

 

 

Then again, I guess some folks'll have less problem with that than a person owning 1200 guns....

:surrender:

[TNWNGR]

Hmm? This just gets more and more interesting with the guns only being background information now.  

[JAB]

The L.A. Times article that DaveTN linked, above, stated that:

 

 

 

“We don't think the weapons are illegal. We are taking them for public safety,” said Sgt. David Craig of the LAPD's gang and narcotics division.

 

and that:

 

 

 

The homeowner group, he said, never had a reason to question whether Bob Smith was his real name because Nebron owned the town house.

 

So the guy didn't own the townhouse, his fiance did.  Therefore, the police entered HER house and took a few hundred thousand dollars worth of property, which even they admit was not illegal, from HER home - apparently without her knowledge or consent.  And a lot of folks are, apparently, not only okay with that but think it was the right thing to do?  Wow.

Edited July 24, 2015 by JAB

[TNWNGR]

JAB,

We're only getting parts of an evolving and even for California bizarre story so at this point who the heck knows. For al I know the police may have entered the residence for any number of admissible reasons. I suspect the condo ownership came out after the fact and more weirdness is waiting to be printed.

[OldHat63]

JAB,

We're only getting parts of an evolving and even for California bizarre story so at this point who the heck knows. For al I know the police may have entered the residence for any number of admissible reasons. I suspect the condo ownership came out after the fact and more weirdness is waiting to be printed.

 

Yeah, the whole bit about the woman leaving a dead body in a parking lot for 2 weeks opens up a whole new series of doors on this mess.

 

In the first article, yes, there's room to question entering the home. In the second, not so much.

 

All in all, the whole thing smells about as rotten as the inside of the vehicle the fellow was found in does now, :puke:

 

It'd be nice to know the truth behind the whole story, but I doubt it'll ever see print.

[hipower]

Yeah, the whole bit about the woman leaving a dead body in a parking lot for 2 weeks opens up a whole new series of doors on this mess.

 

In the first article, yes, there's room to question entering the home. In the second, not so much.

 

All in all, the whole thing smells about as rotten as the inside of the vehicle the fellow was found in does now, :puke:

 

It'd be nice to know the truth behind the whole story, but I doubt it'll ever see print.

 

My brother-in-law and I were talking about this yesterday, and we brought that up. Girlfriend leaving his body in an SUV and going off on vacation? A little squirrelly sounding to me as well.

 

It sure has a lot more to the story than being let out now.