Papa Johns

[none]

We had supper last night at The Corner Pub in MJ. We ended up parking at the other end near Papa Johns and we walked past the entry door I had to do a double take their posting was gone. So after after we ate we again went past tbe entry door one of the drivers was walking back in so I asked him why the posting was gone? He said too many people complained so they took it down. Kind of wondering if it was a corporate directive or a store based decision.

[10-Ring]

IIRC they have a corporate policy to post. I'll take Corner Pub over Papa John's any day though. I usually hit corner pub on Tuesdays for$5 hamburgers but I didn't have it in me tonight.

[Ugly]

Sounds like a good scenario! Never been to the Corner Pub but I bet is is way better than chain pizza!

[none]

 

IIRC they have a corporate policy to post. I'll take Corner Pub over Papa John's any day though. I usually hit corner pub on Tuesdays for$5 hamburgers but I didn't have it in me tonight.

 

We like Corner Pub also. Nice people there.


For Pizza as much as I dont care for Providence we really like NYNY Pizza pretty good pizza fair prices and some talented people singing there on Thursday night. Edited July 22, 2015 by wcd

[npgunner]

Jonathan's in MJ isn't a terrible place for pizza and beer on Tuesday nights. 2-4-1 on beer and whole pizzas.
I know the Jonathan's in Cool Springs is posted, and seems like I've intermittently noticed the one in MJ being posted, but since I'm typically enjoying the 2-4-1 beer along with my pizza, I don't carry inside anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Edited July 22, 2015 by npgunner

[tennesseetiger]

"Too many people complained"

I like that statement right there.  :up:

[vontar]

"Too many people complained"

I like that statement right there.  :up:

I second that. 

 

On the news with the shooting in Chattanooga it was very clear it was posted and allot of people figured it out.

[none]

So I was a bit bored so I emailed Papa Johns corporate below is the response I received today. The response was edited to remove any names. Also it should be noted that I did not identify myself in any way other than being a consumer. Hello Mr****** My name is *********** I am the General Manager of the Mt Juliet Papa John's. I would like to welcome you to our store and address the no guns sign that I removed from my stores front window. Papa Johns never intended to offend anyone when rolling out the no firearms policy. In Oct 2014, a 21 year old shift leader in Columbia, Tn was robbed at gun point of which ended fatally. At that point Papa John's decided to promote the safety of their team members in the attempt to deter theft and violence. However, when your complaint was submitted, I spoke to the management staff in my store and we all came to the agreement that we would remove the sign to allow consumers like yourself to feel welcomed into our establishment. I apologize for any inconvenience this sign may have caused and hope you will become a happy customer of My Juliet Papa John's! .....

[R_Bert]

So I was a bit bored so I emailed Papa Johns corporate below is the response I received today. The response was edited to remove any names. Also it should be noted that I did not identify myself in any way other than being a consumer. Hello Mr****** My name is *********** I am the General Manager of the Mt Juliet Papa John's. I would like to welcome you to our store and address the no guns sign that I removed from my stores front window. Papa Johns never intended to offend anyone when rolling out the no firearms policy. In Oct 2014, a 21 year old shift leader in Columbia, Tn was robbed at gun point of which ended fatally. At that point Papa John's decided to promote the safety of their team members in the attempt to deter theft and violence. However, when your complaint was submitted, I spoke to the management staff in my store and we all came to the agreement that we would remove the sign to allow consumers like yourself to feel welcomed into our establishment. I apologize for any inconvenience this sign may have caused and hope you will become a happy customer of My Juliet Papa John's! .....

 

"Papa Johns never intended to offend anyone when rolling out the no firearms policy. In Oct 2014, a 21 year old shift leader in Columbia, Tn was robbed at gun point of which ended fatally. At that point Papa John's decided to promote the safety of their team members in the attempt to deter theft and violence."

 

Maybe I'm just tired, but my brain just exploded at that attempt of logic.

[none]

 

"Papa Johns never intended to offend anyone when rolling out the no firearms policy. In Oct 2014, a 21 year old shift leader in Columbia, Tn was robbed at gun point of which ended fatally. At that point Papa John's decided to promote the safety of their team members in the attempt to deter theft and violence."
 
Maybe I'm just tired, but my brain just exploded at that attempt of logic.

 

Kind of thinking there was no logic.

Two things first I had sent an email back in June 2014 asking about their policy. Which was several months prior to the atrocity in Columbia.

Second I highly doubt the changed their policy based on a single email?

Still think they are trying to regain lost revenue.

Guess that's just the cynic in me.

[JAB]

As far as big chain pizza goes, I kinda like Papa John's.  It's worlds better than Domino's or Pizza Hut (which used to be good but not anymore.)  I have never noticed a posting on the Papa John's where I occasionally get pizza.  Maybe that is because it has no 'dine-in' option, whatsoever and is strictily carry-out/delivery - but then, again, I think a lot of Papa Joh's locations are set up like that.  Of course, to paraphrase a quote from OhShoot that I really liked, I don't go to a carry-out pizza joint to read so maybe it is there and I have just never noticed it.  I don't think so, however.

 

I prefer Mama Mia's in Kingston (the owner is an older German lady whose father in law was Irish and whose mother in law, who taught her how to cook Italian dishes, was Italian - she makes the sausage for the pizzas in-house) and Romeo's in Loudon (both apparently make the crust in-house) to the big chains, though.  My 'usual' at either is a salami (I like it better than pepperoni) and sausage.  Great, now I want pizza.

Edited July 23, 2015 by JAB

[tnliberty01]

[quote name="wcd" post="1289193" timestamp="1437618609"] Pap John Sez: <snip> "In Oct 2014, a 21 year old shift leader in Columbia, Tn was robbed at gun point of which ended fatally. At that point Papa John's decided to promote the safety of their team members [no gun sign] in the attempt to deter theft and violence. <snip>

This was a brilliant move by Papa Johns. Simply post a no gun sign and violent criminals would no longer rob their stores with guns! Why haven't banks thought about doing this. [emoji724] Edited July 23, 2015 by tnliberty01

[rmiddle]

This was a brilliant move by Papa Johns. Simply post a no gun sign and violent criminals would no longer rob their stores with guns! Why haven't banks thought about doing this. [emoji724]

 

There is a hint of logic there if you aren't around guns much.  If someone walks in with a Gun they can assume to be there to robe the place but what they found out is that a good percentage of there customer legally carry and didn't like the sign at all and told them as much.  It sounds like they way underestimated the number of people who legally carry into there place.

 

Thanks

Robert

[BigK]

First, I'm VERY proud of the fact that so many people complained about the posting that it made a difference and they recognized the potential loss of sales.

 

Second, I'm happy to know a corporation that big is smart enough to be flexible in their policies like that. In another town that was predominantly anti-gun, taking down that sign would have as much negative effect.

 

The owner and/or his policy makers probably couldn't care less about the 2nd Amendment rights of citizens in Mt. Juliet, TN, but they care about the money and made a smart choice. I'll take that small win and smile.

[bersaguy]

I think a lot of the decisions that are made at the Corporate levels only effect Corporate stores. As to local franchise stores it is up to the owner of that franchise store as to whether they want to have the signs or not. I have found that in more and more locations over past several months. Many of the franchise stores that use to be posted are no longer posted. They are smart enough to realize that the signs don't stop the bad guys................jmho

[tnliberty01]

There is a hint of logic there if you aren't around guns much. If someone walks in with a Gun they can assume to be there to robe the place but what they found out is that a good percentage of there customer legally carry and didn't like the sign at all and told them as much. It sounds like they way underestimated the number of people who legally carry into there place.

Thanks
Robert

I've been around or owned guns all my life and there was a time when people understood criminals commit crimes, not their weapon of choice. Gun control is an "emotional issue" used by Progressives as a political tool and "gun free zones" are the best example of a dangerous and ineffective law. Liberal/Progressive politicians are a criminals best friend!

I just moved to a small town in eastern Tennessee from another state. Fortunately, the town has an Ace Hardware, store which will come in handy since I'm building a cabin on the mountain and will need lots of materials. Unfortunately the owner posted a 'no gun' sign. On my first visit, my carry permit had not yet arrived in the mail so I wasn't armed and didn't look for signage. On my second visit after receiving my permit, I noticed the sign and walked back to the truck and secured my gun. I then when in the store and asked for the owner who wasn't in. I told the guy at the counter I would not patronize any business that required me to go on unarmed.

The moral of the story is that I drove to the next town where there is a Lowe's hardware store and have spent a few thousand dollars in the last couple of months and there is much more to come. It requires a 14 mile round trip but which I'll gladly drive to exercise my Second Amendment rights. Posting the sign was a costly mistake that did nothing to make the store safer. I'm sure he 'felt' better though. Edited August 13, 2015 by tnliberty01

[10-Ring]

I've been around or owned guns all my life and there was a time when people understood criminals commit crimes, not their weapon of choice. Gun control is an "emotional issue" used by Progressives as a political tool and "gun free zones" are the best example of a dangerous and ineffective law. Liberal/Progressive politicians are a criminals best friend!
I just moved to a small town in eastern Tennessee from another state. Fortunately, the town has an Ace Hardware, store which will come in handy since I'm building a cabin on the mountain and will need lots of materials. Unfortunately the owner posted a 'no gun' sign. On my first visit, my carry permit had not yet arrived in the mail so I wasn't armed and didn't look for signage. On my second visit after receiving my permit, I noticed the sign and walked back to the truck and secured my gun. I then when in the store and asked for the owner who wasn't in. I told the guy at the counter I would not patronize any business that required me to go on unarmed.
The moral of the story is that I drove to the next town where there is a Lowe's hardware store and have spent a few thousand dollars in the last couple of months and there is much more to come. It requires a 14 mile round trip but which I'll gladly drive to exercise my Second Amendment rights. Posting the sign was a costly mistake that did nothing to make the store safer. I'm sure he 'felt' better though.

I wish more people had this attitude than the"concealed means concealed" crowd. I too refuse to patronize a posted business.

[A.J. Holst]

I wish more people had this attitude than the"concealed means concealed" crowd. I too refuse to patronize a posted business.

I'm an equal opportunity shopper since I don't seem to notice signs anymore. Guess my vision is getting selectively worse as I age.

[tnliberty01]

As a follow up to my pervious Ace Hardware experience, I finally had an opportunity to speak to the owner. I explained that I haven't patronized his business because he has a "NO GUN" sign posted on the front door. I told him I will continue to drive to another store to do business even though his hardware store is in the same town and much closer. He explained the sign was put up to keep out a local politician who was a "nut case" because he would open carry. Open carry is legal in Tennessee so I told him it would be best just to ban him from the store if he was concerned about his safety. My impression was this was a personal political feud because this is a small town. The store owner told me I could carry in his store, open or concealed. I told him in Tennessee if a business has posted a NO GUN sign, it's a Felony to carry a firearm into the business. He said, "it's my store and YOU have MY permission to carry". I said if the local police walked in and see me open carrying my firearm I could be arrested and charged with a Felony violation of Tennessee code. (This law can create a felony trap for otherwise law abiding gun owners but that's another discussion). The owner said "don't worry I know the police and I'll tell them you have permission". Yeah, right. I thanked him for listening to my concerns and made no effort to destroy his hillbilly logic. I still drive to the next town for Hardware supplies. By the time I'm done with my two, yes two cabin projects, I will have spent many thousands of dollars.

I moved here from Florida where if a gun owner fails to see a "NO GUN" it doesn't carry the force of law. The business can tell the gun owner to leave. If he doesn't and the police are called, he/she can be charged with a misdemeanor trespass violation. This law prevents a criminal violation if a gun owner doesn't see the sign or it's not posted conspicuously.

What an irony. In Tennessee, if a law abiding citizen inadvertently misses a GUN FREE ZONE, sign which doesn't prevent, or discourage crime - becomes a criminal. This is brilliant! Create a law that won't prevent crime, except to turn a law abiding citizen into a criminal. No wonder 3 of the top 4 ranked Republican candidates seeking the nomination are not POLITICIANS. Edited September 12, 2015 by tnliberty01

[NRA]

I moved here from Florida where if a gun owner fails to see a "NO GUN" it doesn't carry the force of law. The business can tell the gun owner to leave. If he doesn't and the police are called, he/she can be charged with a misdemeanor trespass violation. This law prevents a criminal violation if a gun owner doesn't see the sign or it's not posted conspicuously.

What an irony. In Tennessee, if a law abiding citizen inadvertently misses a GUN FREE ZONE, sign which doesn't prevent, or discourage crime - becomes a criminal. This is brilliant! Create a law that won't prevent crime, except to turn a law abiding citizen into a criminal. No wonder 3 of the top 4 ranked Republican candidates seeking the nomination are not POLITICIANS.

You are 100% correct. Funny most people do not understand the irony.

[Oh Shoot]

..... I said if the local police walked in and see me open carrying my firearm I could be arrested and charged with a Felony violation of Tennessee code. (This law can create a felony trap for otherwise law abiding gun owners but that's another discussion). ..

 

Note: Not a felony.

 

- OS

[tnliberty01]

Note: Not a felony.

- OS

When I took my TN carry course the instructor told us walking into a business with a properly posted sign was a felony. We spent almost no time reviewing the TN firearms code so I took him at his word. I looked for the penalties for firearms violations and could not find the penalty for violating no gun signs for business. I did find a recent change in the law (2012) giving hunters an Affirmative Defense if they inadvertently walked onto private property with their gun during a hunt. This is a misdemeanor.

So, can anyone cite the TN code for violating a "no gun" sign posting on a business establishment? Is it the same law/penalty?

[Oh Shoot]

When I took my TN carry course the instructor told us walking into a business with a properly posted sign was a felony. We spent almost no time reviewing the TN firearms code so I took him at his word. I looked for the penalties for firearms violations and could not find the penalty for violating no gun signs for business. I did find a recent change in the law (2012) giving hunters an Affirmative Defense if they inadvertently walked onto private property with their gun during a hunt. This is a misdemeanor.

So, can anyone cite the TN code for violating a "no gun" sign posting on a business establishment? Is it the same law/penalty?

 

Get familiar with the laws yourself at:

 

http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/tncode/

 

Most of the weapons related statutes are in 39-17-13xx

 

The statute covering your question is 39-17-1359, and the penalty is a Class B Misdemeanor, with a fine of $500, no jail time. However, 39-17-1352 says that a violation will also cause your permit to be suspended or revoked.

 

As a concession to your newbyishness ;) :

---------------------------------------

39-17-1359.  Prohibition at certain meetings -- Posting notice.

 

  (a)  (1) Except as provided in § 39-17-1313, an individual, corporation, business entity or local, state or federal government entity or agent thereof is authorized to prohibit the possession of weapons by any person who is at a meeting conducted by, or on property owned, operated, or managed or under the control of the individual, corporation, business entity or government entity.

   (2) The prohibition in subdivision (a)(1) shall apply to any person who is authorized to carry a firearm by authority of § 39-17-1351.

( b ) (1) Notice of the prohibition permitted by subsection (a) shall be accomplished by displaying one (1) or both of the notices described in subdivision ( b ) (3) in prominent locations, including all entrances primarily used by persons entering the property, building, or portion of the property or building where weapon possession is prohibited. Either form of notice used shall be of a size that is plainly visible to the average person entering the building, property, or portion of the building or property, posted.

   (2) The notice required by this section shall be in English, but a duplicate notice may also be posted in any language used by patrons, customers or persons who frequent the place where weapon possession is prohibited.

   (3)  (A) If a sign is used as the method of posting, it shall contain language substantially similar to the following:

         AS AUTHORIZED BY T.C.A. § 39-17-1359, POSSESSION OF A WEAPON ON POSTED PROPERTY OR IN A POSTED BUILDING IS PROHIBITED AND IS A CRIMINAL OFFENSE.

      ( b ) As used in this section, "language substantially similar to" means the sign contains language plainly stating that:

         (i) The property is posted under authority of Tennessee law;

         (ii) Weapons or firearms are prohibited on the property, in the building, or on the portion of the property or building that is posted; and

         (iii) Possessing a weapon in an area that has been posted is a criminal offense.

      ( C ) A building, property or a portion of a building or property, shall be considered properly posted in accordance with this section if one (1) or both of the following is displayed in prominent locations, including all entrances primarily used by persons entering the property, building, or portion of the property or building where weapon possession is prohibited:

         (i) The international circle and slash symbolizing the prohibition of the item within the circle; or

         (ii) The posting sign described in this subdivision ( b  )(3).

( c )  (1) It is an offense to possess a weapon in a building or on property that is properly posted in accordance with this section.

   (2) Possession of a weapon on posted property in violation of this section is a Class B misdemeanor punishable by fine only of five hundred dollars ($500).

(d) Nothing in this section shall be construed to alter, reduce or eliminate any civil or criminal liability that a property owner or manager may have for injuries arising on their property.

(e) This section shall not apply to title 70 regarding wildlife laws, rules and regulations.

(f) This section shall not apply to the grounds of any public park, natural area, historic park, nature trail, campground, forest, greenway, waterway or other similar public place that is owned or operated by the state, a county, a municipality or instrumentality thereof. The carrying of firearms in those areas shall be governed by § 39-17-1311.

----------------------------------

 

- OS

Edited September 13, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[tnliberty01]

Thanks for the quick reply. I'm going to forward the TN code to my firearms instructor. It's very clear the penalty is a misdemeanor. Moreover, this violation is a $500 fine ONLY. Hence, I think suspension or revocation of a gun permit would not be imposed UNLESS there were other violations in connection with the incident. By now there should be some case law so I'm going to research this. If someone knows of a suspension or revocation that arose from a permit holder being fined for a 13-39-1359 (a)(1) violation let me know.

BTY, I'm far from a firearms "newbie". If you go to Florida, let me know and I'll tell you where the 'mouse traps' are in the law for permit holders. Edited September 13, 2015 by tnliberty01

[Oh Shoot]

Thanks for the quick reply. I'm going to forward the TN code to my firearms instructor. It's very clear the penalty is a misdemeanor. Moreover, this violation is a $500 fine ONLY. Hence, I think suspension or revocation of a gun permit would not be imposed UNLESS there were other violations in connection with the incident. By now there should be some case law so I'm going to research this. If someone knows of a suspension or revocation that arose from a permit holder being fined for a 13-39-1359 (a)(1) violation let me know.

 

Good luck. So far, no one has ever found a 1359 case regarding a guilty verdict for a TN permit holder. However, 1352 says permit shall be suspended or revoked, no wiggle room in the language.

 

Also, no known case law on the issue of statutorily conforming signage. Many always say, "oh that sign isn't legal".  Who knows.

 

- OS

Edited September 14, 2015 by Oh Shoot