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Raoul, I reconcile Matt 5:39 with the same as others here have. The context of the use of the word evil was in not retaliating for being insulted or the taking or vengeance on a Christians behalf. In other words, if someone insults you, slaps you on the cheek, don't in turn take you fist and knock him to the ground. Perhaps I used a bad choice of words (evil) because if you listen to the news media, after a school shooting, all sorts of people refer to the shooter as an evil person or the evil thing he did. The use of the word evil was wrong on my part. The crux of my statement was on safety and security of our families, church families, and self protection, or self defense if you will. We are discussing what a courageous Christian man must do in situation one finds himself in. Most of our study surrounds spiritual situations, such as bad language, telling of dirty jokes, and the courage to tell someone you don't want to hear the language or participate in dirty jokes, while doing that with love, among many other situations. We are trying to live our religion. I would like to discuss personal and family safety and security. I want the subject of self defense and defense of one's family discussed in the realm of this study. Frankly I have never heard a discussion on this subject in an open forum where one may ask questions and discuss a matter. I have heard preachers and others discuss the subject of self defense, but never in an open forum setting. Raoul, do you believe self defense or defense of one's family is allowed in the Bible, or do you treat your security and safety to the mantra of (Matt 5:39) turn the other cheek?

In our new quarter subject in Bible study, we are talking about the subject of being courageous men in our men's class. I will be interested to see of safety and security will be discussed by anyone. I will bet you not one of the teachers will discuss personal safety in any way, shape, or form----but I WILL before the class ends this quarter. Working on my presentation now. I don't understand how a man can teach others about being courageous, in the leadership of our families, if one does not talk about all aspects of it. Providing safety to ones family, and church family is very important in this day in time. The opening teacher, in the class interdiction, said that the Apostle Peter, when he took his sword and cut Malceious's ear off was not courageous(Matthew 26:51) . I called him on that one. Told him he was very courageous as Peter just told Jesus he was ready to die for Him. The act of cutting the ear off a Roman, by a Jew, was a death sentence offense. Guys, it took courage to cut that ear off knowing he could be put to death. After all Peter was using the sword that Jesus told the apostles to go and purchase. Now I ask you another question? Why did Jesus tell them(11 apostles) to purchase a sword (Luke 22:36-38) and they told him they bought 2 and he said it was enough. My opinion, it was for personal protection because He had just told them He was no longer going to be with the apostles and they were going to need to take care of themselves. I am curious to see if anyone will bring the subject up in class. By the way, my knee replacement DR, who was in the class, confronted the statement about Peter not having courage also. He was in agreement with me that it was very courageous what Peter did. The teacher said, well Peter was presumptuous in what he did. I met him after class to ask him to clarify that and he said Peter did things without thinking them through and acted impulsively. That still did not explained to me why what he did was not courageous, even though what he did caused Jesus to scold Peter for taking a sword and trying to prevent His sacrificing Himself for all of mankind. I know I am preaching to the choir here, but I intend to hold this guys feet to the fire on this subject, if I can. I want to discuss personal and church safety along with all the other courageous things a Christian man is responsible to do in his church and personal life. I applaud our church leadership discussing this subject in our men's class. All of us need to know what to do when confronted with situations, while doing our daily walk in life, of a spiritual nature. I also believe the confrontation of evil is also a subject that need to be addressed along with those of a spiritual encounter. Anyone care to comment on this?

I have a Ruger Carbine in 40 caliber. I purchased it several years ago from a Rutherford County Deputy, through a local gun store. He had a massive heart attack and had to get rid of the carbine. I really like it however I had to send it back t Ruger as it broke the ejector. They repaired it, no charge, and sent it back to me, on their dime, even though I was not the original buyer of the carbine. My experience with their customer service has been great. I have put 500 rounds through it since I have owned it. My 40 caliber looks just like the new nine caliber.

Guys, I had a great birthday and the knee surgery is in the behind now. I had it on Monday morning at 8:30 and just now beginning to get around again. I won't go into detail, unless someone wants to know how surgery was, but will just say it was/is very very very painful. I am taking all the pain pills and can tell when they are spent and am in need of more. I have been to my first physical therapy session, on Thursday, and they warned me to be sure to take the meds 45 minutes before reporting for therapy. Therapy will be every other day (3days) during the week. I actually felt pretty good this afternoon. Getting better by the day.

BersaGuy, did the double bypass 2 years ago. Know you pain. Good luck with your Cardiac Rehab. I did mine and it really helped me. Thanks for the well wishes guys.

Happy birthday to me, 70 today, and for my present, knee surgery tomorrow. You just can't beat it, I am a blessed man. Threes score and 10. Who would have thought it!

I don't like the caliber and did not like the one I had in Vietnam. The platform is just O K to me but I would need one in a better caliber. I do have a last generation Ruger mini 14 Ranch Gun just to play with. If I got one it would be in 308, or 6.5 Creedmoor. Just don't like the 556 or 223 calibers, however who want to sell the farm to purchase one (too expensive).

I gave my 20 ga Mossberg mdl 500 youth mdl home defender to my grandson to rabbit, bird, and squirrel hunt with. It had the 18 1/2 brl. I ordered a 26" brl and 3 choke tubes for it yesterday. The brl was on sale for 175.00 and the choke tubes were 22.00 each. His dad and he hunts on a friends farm around Mt Pleasant South Carolina. He has shot cotton tail, swamp rabbit, and squirrel with the gun so far. He loves to hunt and spend time with his dad. I still remember going hunting, with my dad, around Mt Sterling and Camargo KY when we lived in the Blue Grass State. That is where I was born and lived until I took my senior trip(Vietnam in 67-68). Tet in 68 was lively. Still having many problems from my visit there. My grandson Parker is a hunter at heart. He always want to shoot guns when he comes to visit. Really likes it and is a fair shot for a boy of 9. I started hunting myself when I was 8. I am glad his dad takes time to take him hunting and fishing. Those are memories he will remember for life. I know I sure have. I could have added a few dollars to the cost, and purchased a new one, but he has a versatile gun that will last him for life. Just maybe they won't ban it, in his lifetime, however it holds 6 rounds without the plug. The shot gun was brand new except I did pattern it a couple of times with some different ammo. I used it for a house gun. Still got its big brother the 12 ga.

My prediction is they are going to change the nix system to include a way for all to report any type of depression, which the Dr I saw on T V called it mental illness, into the system. Plus I believe they will make all guns sales, even private sales or giveaways, go through the nix check system this time. That is one reason I am thinning my collection now. The other reason is I am "fastilly" becoming an old codger. I don't want any crazy to be able to purchase a gun, but agree with Farnam. Farnam said older society's used this avenue to get around the gun laws to disarm their populas.

Saw a evening news cast (CBS) that reported the story that now Doctors want to start screening young school children for depression. Of course you do know where that is headed. That question HAVE YOU EVER HAD MENTAL PROBLEMS on that form? Possibly, they will report any depression of children to the gun registry as having mental illness, which the Dr. stated depression was. Guess what will happen when they go to purchase a gun down the road? Better not allow them to check your child. They talked about children from 10 years old and onward. I am getting ready for knee surgery next Monday. A Medicare case worker, for my Dr, called me today and she casually asked if I have had any depression lately. I have been asked that question by 5 different medical people in the last month. Guys, what is going on here?

I just purchased a MP 9C about 5 weeks ago. Like it better than all my Glocks because the Glocks have grips that are too large for my med sized hands. Consider the 2.0 9C a much better fit for me, plus the sights and grip stippling, grip angle, and size feels better in my hand. Is very accurate also, but will say I have not gotten accustomed tot he trigger yet. Have about 200 rounds through it. The feel of the trigger pull is much different than my usual EDC Revolver. I am trying to fit the 2.0 into my EDC routine. Been pocket carrying a Taurus mdl 617 7 shot revolver and am trying to carry the 2.0 in an OWB, with a cover garment for church, and an IWB Cross Breed tuckable for EDC. The last is not working so far.

Reading my Bible always lifts my spirit. Going to study it, with others, this morning. Doing what it says is the hardest. Participating in communion with Christ also this morning. My faith, and hope, is in Him. Good post.

Prayed for him this morning. God go with him. We try and raise them right, then give them to God. Pease for you and the family.

We traveled across the northern U S two years ago. We stopped at Whitefish Bay to view the Lighthouse and the Shipwreck Museum located there. They have the Ship's Bell off the Edmund Fitzgerald in that shipwreck museum. This video has been viewed over 28 million times. Amazing! Gordon Lightfoot, read an article, in Newsweek Magazine, about this ship and how it disappeared in Lake Superior. He told his friends the sailors deserved a song of remembrance for them. He sat down and wrote this song. It raised the hair on the back of my neck when I stood in front of the Ship's Bell and memorial to the big ship. I punched a button and this song started to play. I tell you it brought cold chills. They had a film and a narrator to answer questions. I asked her if Gordon Lightfoot ever visited that Museum. She said he comes just about every year, now, when the families of the Edmund Fitzgerald have a yearly reunion there. He is an Canadian Indian that lives across the border on the other side of Lake Superior. Has to be a good man to do this kind of thing. Hope the site works for you. https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=DsV9WrSsN6rbjwTLjaCwAQ&q=youtube+wreck+of+the+edmund+fitzgerald&oq=u+tube+Wreck+of+the+edmund+fitsgerald&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.0i13k1j0i8i13i30k1l2.10763.29649.0.46391.37.24.0.13.13.0.310.4291.0j18j5j1.24.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.36.4706...0j0i131k1j0i10k1j0i8i13i10i30k1.0.lKEfVDSDl7M

wipfel, our Usher Team policy is not to go out of our building and approach, once we are locked inside. We are an unarmed team, and I only conceal carry for my own personal protection. Our leaders wants us to stick to the policy, and just observe. If this continues we will contact the Police, after we get some pictures of his car and tag. Our team focus is on safety of our church, locking entry doors, and keeping one person on observation while Bible class and worship services are going on.

Bersaguy, funny you mentioned going to the Mail box. I had a scary incident, about 3 years ago, while going to the mail box. Three druggies got between me and my house(100 yards from road) and I almost had to draw my pocket carried revolver on them. One of them told the other, who was bearing down on me, "Come on Bobby, it ain't worth getting shot over." By that time I had squared up and put my hand in my pocket and partially unholstered my EDC. In a commanding voice, I put my hand up and told the lead guy he had better stop and go back to his truck. His buddy stopped and the lead guy looked back and finally stopped, when he seen he had no backup. The 3rd guy was laughing hysterically, probably out of his mind on drugs, while sitting back in their ratty old truck. They went farther down the road and beat my neighbor, who was doing the same thing(mail box). My neighbor was legally blind, but had very little sight. He was 87 and his big thrill was walking and getting his mail. They beat the life out of him, and robbed him. He died 3 weeks later, and his son said he never really recovered from the beating he took. Going to the box can get one in serious trouble, sometimes. If I only had one gun it would be my Taurus mdl 617 7 shot 357/38 revolver. Easy to pocket carry, holds 7 rounds, and one can get ammo for it anywhere.

If he shows up again, this coming Sunday, we are going to attempt to get a picture of his plate. Leaders don't want to see unfriendly, in case it was someone trying to get courage to come in, to which I explained the guy has been doing this for a while now, and twice a weeks ago. They don't want us to seem overly aggressive so we will keep an eye out for the car. Thanks for the advice, and I agree with you guys, but we will follow their direction, for now.

I carried my new M P 2.0 to church, as my primary, and moved my 7 shot Taurus revolver to my weak side pocket. I used the Aker Belt Slide Holster and covered it with my sports coat. Rode fine and had no problems. Going to try the same rig under a light long tail jacket for tonight. I am still more comfortable with the 7 shot revolver, for now, but want the extra rounds(15) on board. Getting more accustomed to the 2.0 as it does not have the weight nor the recoil the 357 revolver has. Have had it out on several occasions and plan another this week. Wish the ground would dry so I could get in some serious movement. Just too wet as the ground has been frozen and we had over 1 inch of rain last evening. It is hard for an old dog to learn new tricks. I have always loved revolvers. Need to check out the new 8 shooters, but so far they all have been a little too large for concealed carry in church. Our church leadership has agreed to put signage on the back entrance doors, and it is already there, to alert late comers to go the main entrances to enter the building. Several have expressed agreement with their decision and want them doors locked to control someone entering in our classroom wing doors, which are a good 100 yards from the main entrances and auditorium. Our ushers now stays in the main lobby, even during Bible Classes, after locking the back doors. Now everyone who enters, after classes start, will be profiled by our ushers. I think that is a good thing. Our attendance is way up and we has several visitors today. We meet/greet every visitor, who enters the building, and talks with them. I believe that is a good thing, and it gives one a feel of the disposition of folks. We have had a man circle our parking lot almost every Sunday morning, after services start, for the past 6 weeks. I seen him circle 2 times this morning. We have a policy not to confront anyone, after entrance doors are locked, in the parking lot, but just to be a good witness. Don't know what this guy is doing, as he does not drop anyone off. Kinda bugs us, but we are keeping an eye out for the car. It is a fairly new auto. Puzzling! If it continues we may need to get Police to intercept him to find out what he is doing. What do you guys think? Any suggestions?

My wife conceal carries a Ruger LCR in 38 spl and her house gun is a S W Model 65 I purchased used for her. It is a 357 mag/38 spl and she keeps it loaded with 38 spl Cor Bon DPX. It is much heavier and has a 3" brl which makes it easier to shoot well. Good advice for her to go to a range and shoot several different guns before she purchases one. If you go the 22 LR way, IMO the 22 magnum is much better and is still lower recoil than the 9MM or 38Spl. You could also look at 380 if she could rack the slide on a pistol. You guys need to get some serious training, and practice, to become proficient with any firearm. If you arm yourself, get some training. Might save your life.

I had double bypass 2 years ago. Big change in my life. Said a prayer for Doug this morning.

IMO, many need Jesus Christ working on their hearts and minds. Like it or not, "Real Religion," taken to heart," makes one more tolerant of others.

Many of my Doctor offices have no gun signage. Don't see a way around that one, for sure on Medicare like I am. Not a lot of choices with that insurance! Sometimes, not doing business in prohibited areas is not as easy as one might think. Just my Opinion.

I have a Remington 1148, 16 Ga I inherited from my father. It has a improved cylinder, and is a semi auto which he hunted quail with a lot. It is a sweet shotgun. Not as light as some of the newer guns but it has never failed to cycle. I have some Mossberg's but they are as heavy as your 870.

Shoot one before you purchase. Some have a hard time getting good hits with the shockwave. They are hard to shoot well.