Sig P320 - Carry, Range Only, or Sell

[Chucktshoes]

https://ky-leadernews.com/brayden-tyriq-lovan/

 

The obituary of the deceased.

Since this is where the discussion of the topic has been, I figured this would be the place to put a face to it all.

godspeed.

[btq96r]

4 hours ago, Chucktshoes said:

https://ky-leadernews.com/brayden-tyriq-lovan/

 

The obituary of the deceased.

Since this is where the discussion of the topic has been, I figured this would be the place to put a face to it all.

godspeed.

An absolute travesty when someone who signs up to serve their country is let down by the equipment issued.  Non-combat deaths are just as gutwrenching as the ones downrange.  This Airman and his family deserved better.  Any organization still using this pistol needs to wake up, fast.

Edited yesterday at 06:18 AM by btq96r

[TNmedic1776]

I agree completely. 

I'll admit it,  I've been a hold out on this issue due to my personal uncertainty concerning the validity of the claims. Early on, it was very plausible that these discharges could have been negligent or improper footing holsters or other factors... After they began to pile up it became something I could no longer ignore. I took my P320 (M18) out of my carry rotation, and didn't consider having it as a trusted bedside option. With this incident I will refuse to even consider it as a range gun. Selling it is like passing the buck to whomever bought it. I'm at a loss. 

 

[ck1 actual]

10 hours ago, deerslayer said:

The Glock is a competent design that is dangerous in incompetent hands.  I don’t think a 320 has to be in incompetent hands to be dangerous.  

I think this is the real question.  Which remains to be seen.  If this was true you would think the problem could be replicated, especially by the FBI who has been looking into it for months now. Why can’t this be validated in any repeatable format if it’s true? 

[deerslayer]

39 minutes ago, ck1 actual said:

I think this is the real question.  Which remains to be seen.  If this was true you would think the problem could be replicated, especially by the FBI who has been looking into it for months now. Why can’t this be validated in any repeatable format if it’s true? 

Well there are a couple videos with guys demonstrating how some guns fail, but naysayers write them off because “I ain’t buying it if he’s pokin’ stuff inside the gun with a punch.”  Those videos highlight a problem that Sig fans don’t want to address.  

[Alleycat72]

 

 

 

[ck1 actual]

2 hours ago, deerslayer said:

Well there are a couple videos with guys demonstrating how some guns fail, but naysayers write them off because “I ain’t buying it if he’s pokin’ stuff inside the gun with a punch.”  Those videos highlight a problem that Sig fans don’t want to address.  

Sig mechanics YouTube is the most in depth analysis of the 320 that exists to my knowledge.  He has never been able to reproduce this.  

I also don’t care about a random YouTuber banging on a modified trigger sig. These are the most modular guns in the market. All this analysis should be done in a controlled and replicable environment 

The FBI is investigating this and the claims are significant.  If there is a fundamental design flaw why can’t it be reproduced? This is engineering not black magic.  If I was Glock I’d be dumping money into proving this about the 320 if a problem really exists.  

[Alleycat72]

2 minutes ago, ck1 actual said:

Sig mechanics YouTube is the most in depth analysis of the 320 that exists to my knowledge.  He has never been able to reproduce this.  

I also don’t care about a random YouTuber banging on a modified trigger sig. These are the most modular guns in the market. All this analysis should be done in a controlled and replicable environment 

The FBI is investigating this and the claims are significant.  If there is a fundamental design flaw why can’t it be reproduced? This is engineering not black magic.  If I was Glock I’d be dumping money into proving this about the 320 if a problem really exists.  

The gun is faulty. You should not be able to shoot yourself without putting the muzzle to your body and pulling the trigger. Sorry you like the gun, but "My gun has never done that " type of talk doesn't cut it when lives or on the line. Something is going on and Sig is responsible for every injury at this point. 

[ck1 actual]

5 minutes ago, Alleycat72 said:

The gun is faulty. You should not be able to shoot yourself without putting the muzzle to your body and pulling the trigger. Sorry you like the gun, but "My gun has never done that " type of talk doesn't cut it when lives or on the line. Something is going on and Sig is responsible for every injury at this point. 

lol. I am saying the opposite of what you are implying.  If it’s faulty, that should be easy to prove right?  
 

its engineering not magic. 
 

I have guns from every major company.  I could care less about where this ends up.  I'm actually suggesting people be less emotional about it.  

[scatman]

6 minutes ago, Alleycat72 said:

The gun is faulty. You should not be able to shoot yourself without putting the muzzle to your body and pulling the trigger. Sorry you like the gun, but "My gun has never done that " type of talk doesn't cut it when lives or on the line. Something is going on and Sig is responsible for every injury at this point. 

This can't be expressed enough. They had enough time to acknowledge it and make amends. Its past that point now. 

[BHunted]

Check here... plug your ser#... mine were both cleared...

P320 Voluntary Upgrade Program | SIG SAUER

 

[Alleycat72]

7 minutes ago, BHunted said:

Check here... plug your ser#... mine were both cleared...

P320 Voluntary Upgrade Program | SIG SAUER

 

Sigs "trust me bro" app. LOL

[Alleycat72]

The Sig cross was randomly shooting also. 

Remington also have a bit of that.

Edited 16 hours ago by Alleycat72

[Alleycat72]

In a gun control debate with a liberal.

Lib: Guns are the problem. 

Me: guns are not the problem. People are the problem.

Lib: guns kill people. 

Me: people kill people not guns. 

Lib: pulls out a Sig 320 by the muzzle 

Me:   

 

[Wheelgunner]

6 hours ago, ck1 actual said:

If it’s faulty, that should be easy to prove right?  
 

its engineering not magic. 
 

I have guns from every major company.  I could care less about where this ends up.  I'm actually suggesting people be less emotional about it.  

Straight logic.  

The conclusion you proposed in your if-then statement does not logically follow if Sig has QC problems such that not every 320 has exactly the same specs.  Similarly, your conclusion does not logically follow if the malfunction occurs after a specific and lengthy sequence of physical events, since not everyone handles their weapon precisely the same way. 

Therefore, I propose a revised version:

If (a) the Sig 320 is a faulty model, and (b) Sig produces every 320 to exactly the same specs, and (c) we know the precise sequence of physical events, amount of pressure, location of pressure, etc. applied to a 320 in a true uncommanded discharge, then it should be easy to prove that the discharge resulted from a manufacturing defect.

[ck1 actual]

44 minutes ago, Wheelgunner said:

Straight logic.  

The conclusion you proposed in your if-then statement does not logically follow if Sig has QC problems such that not every 320 has exactly the same specs.  Similarly, your conclusion does not logically follow if the malfunction occurs after a specific and lengthy sequence of physical events, since not everyone handles their weapon precisely the same way. 

Therefore, I propose a revised version:

If (a) the Sig 320 is a faulty model, and (b) Sig produces every 320 to exactly the same specs, and (c) we know the precise sequence of physical events, amount of pressure, location of pressure, etc. applied to a 320 in a true uncommanded discharge, then it should be easy to prove that the discharge resulted from a manufacturing defect.

My main point was not to propose how to solve this as much as saying people will respond one of two ways:  They will either be afraid because they don’t understand how machines work or they will understand that if there is a real problem it will be repeatable. 

Even in your scenario where it might be due to faulty tolerances or something related to manufacturing vs design flaw, this is still replicable if you have that specific gun that discharged. That’s why it’s so important that the specific guns this happens to are investigated.  It has to be that gun, an evaluation of the system as a whole is not good enough.  
 

This isn’t a wand from hog-warts, it’s a machine and anything that malfunctions on it for one un-commanded discharge will be able to observed and replicated. If something is out of spec it sure as hell isn’t going to come back into spec.  The fact that the FBI and others can’t find anything tells me it’s more than likely user error. 
 

Obviously we can’t trust sig or any of the other major gun companies to be straight with us because welcome to American capitalism in the 21st century, but there are enough people looking at this that if there is a problem it should be unearthed.  

[chances R]

The horse is out of the barn, the bell has been rung.  The only way out is a trade-in program.

[deerslayer]

2 hours ago, ck1 actual said:

My main point was not to propose how to solve this as much as saying people will respond one of two ways:  They will either be afraid because they don’t understand how machines work or they will understand that if there is a real problem it will be repeatable. 

Even in your scenario where it might be due to faulty tolerances or something related to manufacturing vs design flaw, this is still replicable if you have that specific gun that discharged. That’s why it’s so important that the specific guns this happens to are investigated.  It has to be that gun, an evaluation of the system as a whole is not good enough.  
 

This isn’t a wand from hog-warts, it’s a machine and anything that malfunctions on it for one un-commanded discharge will be able to observed and replicated. If something is out of spec it sure as hell isn’t going to come back into spec.  The fact that the FBI and others can’t find anything tells me it’s more than likely user error. 
 

Obviously we can’t trust sig or any of the other major gun companies to be straight with us because welcome to American capitalism in the 21st century, but there are enough people looking at this that if there is a problem it should be unearthed.  

Would you buy a P320 if you found a steal on one?

[Scotty]

I like steals. My inbox is open. 

[ck1 actual]

42 minutes ago, deerslayer said:

Would you buy a P320 if you found a steal on one?

I have multiple that I will continue to use.  But I also understand their double internal safety system and how their system works.  I am comfortable with what I know about Sig. That could change if some actual data comes to light.  
 

I am not looking to buy one if that is what you are asking.   but that is more of a storage issue than an sig issue.  

[Wheelgunner]

4 hours ago, ck1 actual said:

My main point was not to propose how to solve this as much as saying people will respond one of two ways:  They will either be afraid because they don’t understand how machines work or they will understand that if there is a real problem it will be repeatable. 

Even in your scenario where it might be due to faulty tolerances or something related to manufacturing vs design flaw, this is still replicable if you have that specific gun that discharged. That’s why it’s so important that the specific guns this happens to are investigated.  It has to be that gun, an evaluation of the system as a whole is not good enough.

Agree 100% about the importance of investigating the specific weapons involved the recent incidents.

My main point was that many people may well fall into a third category: a man might think that if he tests the 320 he owns under circumstances where a different 320 discharged and cannot easily duplicate an uncommanded discharge, then no other 320 could ever have an uncommanded discharge - and all problems with the model must result from user error.  That, of course, is illogical. 

I don't have enough info for me to determine whether there are faulty 320s being produced.  But I do have enough info to have serious concerns about the conclusions a judge or jury might reach if I chose to carry a 320 and then had an uncommanded discharge that caused death or injury. 

The Ruger model I own isn't known for similar issues, and that's one reason I choose to carry it.  To each his own, though. 

Anyhow, I really hope we learn definitive answers soon about these incidents with 320s.