Talked about before!!!!

[deerslayer]

37 minutes ago, papa61 said:

Sorry, not funny about the shoulder bud, I was laughing that you'd think I'd need a ride.

I refuse to have that surgery at my age, one of the nursing techs at my doctor's office had it and I'm not going through that.

63 is plenty young to do it.  I did it at 51 on the right side and it went great.  Now I’m 53 and so far so good on the left, but it’s still early.  My dr. said his average victim is 60.  
 

If you saw how I tore my left one back in December, you’d definitely laugh at me.  

[papa61]

29 minutes ago, deerslayer said:

63 is plenty young to do it.  I did it at 51 on the right side and it went great.  Now I’m 53 and so far so good on the left, but it’s still early.  My dr. said his average victim is 60.  
 

If you saw how I tore my left one back in December, you’d definitely laugh at me.  

My left has been torn for over 15 years, probably wouldn't help it. I don't know how long the right has been torn. They found it before doing the fusion on my vertebra. I've had 7 surgeries since 2012. Recovery gets tougher every time.

Sorry for hijacking bersaguy thread people. 

[leroy]

RE:  Rotator cuff... Had my right done about 32 years ago.  I'll never forget what my Ortho Dr said.  " When it hurts bad enough, you will get it fixed ".  He wuz right.  It finally hurt bad enough.

leroy

[gun sane]

2 hours ago, deerslayer said:

If you saw how I tore my left one back in December, you’d definitely laugh at me.  

2 hours ago, papa61 said:

My left has been torn for over 15 years, probably wouldn't help it.

Hope y'all get back to your fighting best soon!

Edited 16 hours ago by gun sane

[Kywldcts]

21 hours ago, btq96r said:

Three pages in and nobody is here shilling for .40S&W, so we at least have some hope.

I'd say carry what you have confidence in- the gun and the round are a marriage...and in that analogy,  the gun is your wife.  It's the most important part, and has to be attended to first.

I carried a .40 (Glock 22) as a duty weapon for years.  And from personal experience it will 100% put someone down effectively and quickly.  It’s a great round.  It’s also not something that, in my opinion, is practical for concealed carry unless you’re carrying a full sized gun.  And it’s comparatively expensive to shoot.

[papa61]

9 hours ago, gun sane said:

Hope y'all get back to your fighting best soon!

I am more concerned with my spine than my shoulders. I do have pain in my shoulders if I move them wrong but I've learned to deal with it. Like leroy said, if it gets bad enough I'll get it fixed. Thank you for the good wishes.

I have noticed I don't want to put as many rounds downrange as I used to. 

[papa61]

8 hours ago, Kywldcts said:

I carried a .40 (Glock 22) as a duty weapon for years.  And from personal experience it will 100% put someone down effectively and quickly.  It’s a great round.  It’s also not something that, in my opinion, is practical for concealed carry unless you’re carrying a full sized gun.  And it’s comparatively expensive to shoot.

I have no doubt 40 will work. You bring up a good point though, it's cheaper to run 9mm than any other centerfire pistol round. Recoil isn't as hard but it is snappier that 45

[pop pop]

I have had both shoulders scoped and had several large bone spurs ground out. Left shoulder had a small tear which they dressed up. Basically had Arthritus in both shoulders. I am 77 and both shoulders are pain free now. 

To get back to the subject of Bersaguys post. Just went to the Hornady site and looked at Critical Defense for both 380 and 9 MM. 

380 Critical Defense FTX HP bullet.

90 Gr bullet from 3" brl

925 FPS

14 to 16" penetration with small wound channel.

9 MM 115 Gr critical Defense FTX 4" brl

1122 FPS

14 1/2 "penetration

IMO, either of these calibers will do the job. The 9 MM is better, but the 380 put in the right place will do. Just not that much difference in either. The 380 did have one round that only expanded a minimal amount and traveled to 20" penetration with a very small wound cavity.

There is a small difference in barrel lengths which has some bearing on velocity. The 380 tested in a 3 inch brl,  9 MM in a 4 inch brl. That has a different effect on bullet expansion. Also the 9 MM bullet is a 115 gran opposed to the 380 at 90 gr bullet. 

Guys just not a large overwhelming difference in these 2 calibers. The 9 MM is superior; however, the 380 could very well be adequate. 

[monkeylizard]

At 10 feet:
That .380 delivers ~170 lbf of force.
That 9mm delivers ~330 lbf force.

That 9mm is a rounding error away from delivering DOUBLE the punch of the .380. There actually is an overwhelming difference between 9mm and .380.

That .380 may be adequate given the situation, but the 9mm is undeniably a significantly more effective round, all else being equal. Also remember those force calcs are on .380 with a 3" bbl and the 9mm is with a  4" bbl. Shorter barrels will produce less force for both rounds, and the .380 doesn't have much to spare. It kind of makes the case for the Bersa Thunder-sized .380 guns IF the .380 is the round a person chooses to carry. At 3.5", it's delivering about as much as that round can manage.

BTW, a comparable .45ACP delivers only about 10% more than that 9mm with about 390lbf.

Modern 9mm is a highly effective cartridge.

Edited 8 minutes ago by monkeylizard