Update to: WTF Knoxville show

[Dolomite_supafly]

I spoke to the office manager, Ryan, at RK shows about the security guards taking my ammo over the weekend.

He stated it was the owners policy to seize any loose ammo that entered the show. I asked who the guards were and if they were licensed. He said that the security guards were not licensed in TN and that there is no requirement for them to be as long as they were working the RK show.

I explained that the security had no right to seize my private property because a sign was posted, they could deny me admittance or allowed me to take it to my car but they could not legally take my private property when no laws were broken. He stated that the signs gave him the same rights as a restaurant with a no carry sign posted. I explained that the restaurant owners have no right to seize private property either but they do have the right to ask me to leave or call LE. I asked him if I posted a sign in my driveway that said "No Chevrolet trucks" did that give me the right to seize any Chevrolet truck that entered my driveway? He started talking about how it was the owners policy and not to try to argue with him. I told him I wasn't trying to argue and that I just wanted to know what laws I broke that allowed the security guards to seize my property.

I again explained to him that no laws were broken and that LE was never called so the security guard had no right to seize my private property. He said that it was the owners rules and that I should have never entered with loose ammunition. I told him I wanted to take it to my car and he said I was already in the show by the time the security guard took my property. I told him I was not in the show yet and he said I was on the property so I was in the show.

Ryan also said that numerous other people, over the course of the weekend, also lost their ammunition while entering.

I explained I bought ammo to replace mine inside the show. Ryan stated as long as the ammo was in a container it would be allowed in the show.

He went on to say he would have the owner call me.

I spoke to the Tennessee Department of Commerce and Insurance regarding Ryan's staement that the security guards do not need to be licensed. They are the departmetn that issues guard licenses as well as handles complaints regarding licensed security. I was told by that office that if they wear a security guard uniform and work within the boundries of the state they are required to have a valid security guard license.

Dolomite

Edited May 25, 2010 by Dolomite_supafly

[kb4ns]

I spoke to the office manager, Ryan, at RK shows about the security guards taking my ammo over the weekend.

He stated it was the owners policy to seize any loose ammo that entered the show. I asked who the guards were and if they were licensed. He said that the security guards were not licensed in TN and that there is no requirement for them to be as long as they were working the RK show.

I explained that the security had no right to seize my private property because a sign was posted, they could deny me admittance or allowed me to take it to my car but they could not legally take my private property when no laws were broken. He stated that the signs gave him the same rights as a restaurant with a no carry sign posted. I explained that the restaurant owners have no right to seize private property either but they do have the right to ask me to leave or call LE. I asked him if I posted a sign in my driveway that said "No Chevrolet trucks" did that give me the right to seize any Chevrolet truck that entered my driveway? He started talking about how it was the owners policy and not to try to argue with him. I told him I wasn't trying to argue and that I just wanted to know what laws I broke that allowed the security guards to seize my property.

I again explained to him that no laws were broken and that LE was never called so the security guard had no right to seize my private property. He said that it was the owners rules and that I should have never entered with loose ammunition. I told him I wanted to take it to my car and he said I was already in the show by the time the security guard took my property. I told him I was not in the show yet and he said I was on the property so I was in the show.

Ryan also said that numerous other people, over the course of the weekend, also lost their ammunition while entering.

I explained I bought ammo to replace mine inside the show. Ryan stated as long as the ammo was in a container it would be allowed in the show.

He went on to say he would have the owner call me.

I spoke to the Tennessee Department of Commerce and Insurance regarding Ryan's staement that the security guards do not need to be licensed. They are the departmetn that issues guard licenses as well as handles complaints regarding licensed security. I was told by that office that if they wear a security guard uniform and work within the boundries of the state they are required to have a valid security guard license.

Dolomite

Was he talking out of his mouth or...???

[Garufa]

I explained I bought ammo to replace mine inside the show. Ryan stated as long as the ammo was in a container it would be allowed in the show.

Well, in that case is a magazine (or clip as both were posted) not a "container"?

Sound like he was blowing you off. If he blames it on the "owner" then I guess you need to take up with the Expo people.

[ShamGlock]

Sounds like they pissed off somebody willing to go the distance.

[Guest clownsdd]

Please advise the forum (for those of us not in the know) RK's principals, place of business, what shows they do, so we can avoid any contact with them that they would deem unlawful or not suited to their rules. That should insure that none of us has to go thru the bs that you have.

[mikegideon]

Was he talking out of his mouth or...???

Don't you mean ***? I mean, when you're talking about *****, you spell it *****.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Please advise the forum (for those of us not in the know) RK's principals, place of business, what shows they do, so we can avoid any contact with them that they would deem unlawful or not suited to their rules. That should insure that none of us has to go thru the bs that you have.

Before we do that we need to see what the response will be from RK. He puts on good shows unfortunately not all security guards act in a professional manner. I bet that if these guards had paid for the licensing as well as the shoot fees associated with getting their security guard license they wouldn't do what they did to jeopardize it, to me or anyone else.

Sounds like they pissed off somebody willing to go the distance.

I was in a helicopter accident in June of 2008. I can no longer work or do a lot of things I used to do so I can definitely devote my time to resolving this. I am not pissed so much as I am sick and tired of people overstepping their boundries.

One thing I will not do is lay down when I know I am right.

Dolomite

[Guest Glock23ForMe]

I'm gonna put a sign in my driveway...

"Nothing worth over $400 allowed on property."

Then sell the crap on eBay!!

For real though, it sounds, to me, like neither the guy you were talking to nor the security guards knew their ass from a hole in the ground on this one. More power to ya, big man. Keep us updated.

[MacGyver]

Nice work on trying to get an answer on this and hold them accountable for their position. I get why show operators don't want loaded weapons in the show - licensed or not. It would be bad for all of us when some HCP holder hurts somebody trying out that new holster. That said, it was bad form and bad customer relations to not allow you to take the ammo back to your car.

[Oh Shoot]

Let's not forget the other abuse of power here.

The older big guy threatens to arrest people selling guns in the lobby or outside the building.

First of all, his powers of arrest are debatable, but secondly, it's not illegal to do so.

If the intent is to keep folks who have not paid admission to sell/buy guns, well, that's one thing, but I don't see how that could possibly be an illegal offense, unless the promoter wanted to claim it is trespassing.

Incidentally, our own BlueMax had of course paid for admission, and the two gents I saw warned at the last show obviously had, as they were inside the lobby past the checkpoints.

- OS

[Dolomite_supafly]

Nice work on trying to get an answer on this and hold them accountable for their position. I get why show operators don't want loaded weapons in the show - licensed or not. It would be bad for all of us when some HCP holder hurts somebody trying out that new holster. That said, it was bad form and bad customer relations to not allow you to take the ammo back to your car.

I agree with the policy 100% and feel it is needed for everyone's safety because accidents do happen. What I don't agree with is someone taking something that belongs to me without justification or the authority to do so.

Had they allowed me to take it to my car I wouldn't have had a problem but because of the actions of the security guards I have been denied the use of my personal property.

Dolomite

[Smith]

First, the only arresting powers they have is a citizen arrest for observed felonies (same as anyone) even a license guard is limited to this law. If they were licensed guards they would have known that. Secondly policies are not laws and as such are only enforcible if a person refuses to comply with legal policies. If they refuse, the police would have to be called for disorderly conduct. If they physically detain a person, except for an observed felony, THEY should be charged with kidnapping/criminal detainment. Again all basics in the guard license course. If they forcibly put their hands on you except in self defense it is assault.

These idiots are treading on thin ice and sound like it's about to break. I guarantee you they will be very surprised when they land in jail.

[Guest TargetShooter84]

Major props for doing this!

Keep us updated on the outcome!

[Capbyrd]

Please advise the forum (for those of us not in the know) RK's principals, place of business, what shows they do, so we can avoid any contact with them that they would deem unlawful or not suited to their rules. That should insure that none of us has to go thru the bs that you have.

If it's in Memphis, it's an RK show.

[Mike.357]

way to go Dolomite. You the man!

[MCSCOTT]

I agree with the policy 100% and feel it is needed for everyone's safety because accidents do happen. What I don't agree with is someone taking something that belongs to me without justification or the authority to do so.

Had they allowed me to take it to my car I wouldn't have had a problem but because of the actions of the security guards I have been denied the use of my personal property.

Dolomite

My feelings exactly. They gave you no option, which to me is basically stealing. Heck, even bigger events like Titans games they give you the option to take your property back to your vehicle even if it's in stadium parking lots. These guys were obviously abusing their rent-a-cop powers, and judging by the descriptions of their attitudes I would have probably gone to jail had I attended this event.

[TNRobocop]

I worked security when I got out of the army back in 1988 in Nashville and if you worked in a uniform, as a recognized security officer, you had to go through the training and get licensed by the TN Dept of Commerce.

If these guys were working security, and RK says that they don't have to be licensed, he is full of merde.

I believe a call to the TN Dept of Commerce should be in order.

And as far as it being detrimental to RK Shows to file a complaint, they have gone downhill in the last couple of years as everyone knows.

You can get better deals and cheaper prices on almost everything through the internet and boards such as TGO, so not a big loss.

[ftncityfatboy]

somebody tell me what I've missed......there are signs stating no guns, no loose ammo, etc. So how did they know you had loose ammo? Did you take it out and start playing with it? Were you showing it off? Did they frisk you and find it in your pocket? How did they find out? Did you check your gun at the front and have to take out the ammo at that point? If you did, shame on you....signs out front say no-no. should have unloaded and taken to care at that point if that was what happened. Somebody fill me in....

[Curiousgb]

The RK shows in Memphis, well in a word, suck. I have wasted my last dollar on them. Dolomite I agree 100% with you. Have at them, I hope they rue the day they took your property.

[Guest TargetShooter84]

somebody tell me what I've missed......there are signs stating no guns, no loose ammo, etc. So how did they know you had loose ammo? Did you take it out and start playing with it? Were you showing it off? Did they frisk you and find it in your pocket? How did they find out? Did you check your gun at the front and have to take out the ammo at that point? If you did, shame on you....signs out front say no-no. should have unloaded and taken to care at that point if that was what happened. Somebody fill me in....

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/general-off-topic/40354-wtf-knoxville-expo-center-gunshow.html

[Guest RevScottie]

Somebody fill me in....

He didn't have loose ammo until security wouldn't allow him to return his loaded magazine to the car. Made him empty and would not give the SD ammo back.

[Guest TargetShooter84]

I posted the link above....

[Pain103]

So it was security guards or Law Enforcement Officers? People were jumping like crazy thinking it was LEO. Honestly it sucks and shouldn't have happened but probably the only thing that will happen is if you file a complaint with the Department of Commerce and they come in to do investigation and look at records of the security guards and maybe fine the show management.

[TNRobocop]

So it was security guards or Law Enforcement Officers? People were jumping like crazy thinking it was LEO. Honestly it sucks and shouldn't have happened but probably the only thing that will happen is if you file a complaint with the Department of Commerce and they come in to do investigation and look at records of the security guards and maybe fine the show management.

It is believed that they were unlicensed security guards.

But hating cops is a hobby for alot of people on here.

[Guest Glock23ForMe]

But hating cops is a hobby for alot of people on here.

Kind of unfair....

But hating prick cops is a hobby for alot of people on here.

Fair...

Don't really understand the whole "hating cops" thing. If I go to Burger King and the guy at the computer is a prick... I'm not gonna like him.... It's pretty much fair across the board like that... at least for me.