Glock Rant

[MiddTennTaco]

This is just something I really can't get over. What is the deal with Glock and their finger grooves? Does Glock think that everyone has the same size fingers? The back straps are a nice feature but why do you HAVE to have girl fingers to shoot a Glock?

First, let me give a little background. I love the concept of a simple, reliable, and highly reputable pistol that I could beat the tar out of and not feel so bad about it (Glock being one of the few pistols out there that actually looks really good worn in). My first personal pistol was a Gen 4 G19. Speaking with others, I KNOW that I am not the only person who has this problem with Glock finger grooves. My dang fingers are too fat! When I hold the grip of any Glock, from my middle finger to my pinky ALWAYS ends up sitting on top of the finger groove ridges. In case you can't guess, this makes it extremely painful to shoot.

Why is it so important that they include this? Is it just me or is this just a straight up terrible idea? I have to be missing something I feel so terribly sorry for all the policemen in the world who are issued this weapon and have to cope with having large fingers. They don't have any choice in the manner.

Right now I carry a full size S&W M&P - take note, no finger grooves. So far I haven't had a single malfunction of any sort and I am very pleased with it. I think everyone would agree that Smith and Wesson has historically had a very good reputation for quality firearms. However, their M&P series is still very new and quite unproven when compared to the Glock series of handguns. I'm sure everyone is entitled to some doubt after their SIGMA series.

So far though the M&P has been highly satisfactory and in my opinion, the most ergonomic pistol I have ever held. I know the title says Glock Rant, but I guess what I'm trying to say is that I wish I COULD shoot a Glock. I just know that it could be just as good if not better than an M&P if there was one that worked for me. The problem is ... I guess you could say.. that the M&P is a lot more.. complexly "styled" than a Glock. I've been carrying the M&P for a good while now and it's starting to show its normal holster wear. In my opinion, a Glock only looks good eaten away with use. I'm afraid of what the M&P is going to look like as a carry gun. I wish those finger grooves worked for me, it hurts my feelings.

I guess you could look at it like this:

chevy farm truck or cadillac escalade farm truck? the latter might look a little retarded

[~48_South~]

Just get you a Gen 1 or a Gen 2 and you're good to go. I personally like the grooves but I have regular sized hands so they dont bother me. Not to mention the amount of people who like the grooves vs the amount of people whos fingers wont fit in them is probably atleast a 1000:1 ratio so I doubt Glock really cares to be honest.

Edited October 9, 2012 by ~48_South~

[TGO David]

I'd have agreed with the idea that the M&P was a new and somewhat unproven platform about 5-7 years ago but this isn't the case any longer. It's proven itself to be very reliable and is fielded by plenty of law enforcement agencies and civilians alike. Further, one only has to consider the teething pains of the Gen 4 Glock to realize that just because a firearm has a pedigree, it doesn't mean that it is going to be more reliable than something new to the field.

I'd stick with what works best for you. Sounds like you prefer the M&P.

[daddyo]

I know the title says Glock Rant, but I guess what I'm trying to say is that I wish I COULD shoot a Glock.

Why? I've shot both, and I prefer the M&P. The Glock is a great weapon, but the M&P fits me better and I shoot it better than I do the Glock, and I don't feel bad at all about it. Maybe one day I'll pick up a G19 or a G30, but I'm completely satisfied with what I shoot and carry.

[SonnyCrockett]

not every gun is for every hand,i have no issues with glocks and think they are the better of the 2 you mention

however there are 100 brands to pick from they just seem to be the most popular because of reputation ...

[DaveTN]

Go with the M&P and don’t look back. It’s proven itself; it’s taking over the LEO market which the civilian market will follow. No, it’s not a sigma. All companies, at least the ones that are over 150 years old and have more models than we can count, have made some mistakes. Sigma was one of S&W’s.

It’s made by an American Company in America by Americans. So sell off all your foreign made Glocks and replace them with American made.

[graycrait]

DaveTn makes a good point about buying American, supporting American workers.

I personally wish the M&P had as positive reset a the Glock and didn't have have a substantially higher number of small internal parts. I don't like the stock Glock trigger shoe face either but it is less than a 5 minute job to safely skin down that trigger safety so that it still functions but is flat when you press the trigger. Some folks like that thing sticking up in the middle as an finger pad index point and for beginners or those who don't shoot their pistols a lot that might make sense.

For me the ergonomics of the M&P are nearly perfect except for the area where the inside of my basal thumb joint hits the seam where the M&P removable backstrap meets the pistol frame. However, like the Glock trigger safety, that is less than a 5 minute job with a dremel. For those who don't like the trigger pull on an M&P Apex makes a hardened sear that improves the trigger pull markedly. It is not hard to install. I caution against installing the entire Apex action kit as it seems to me to make the trigger too light and the break point vague IMHO. Unlike the Glock you will have to use a hammer to fully disassemble a M&P and a roll pin punch. Also in disassembling the M&P the sear spring and plunger are very small and hard to handle. Another thing about working on an M&P is that if you have ambi safety the spring that rides in that apparatus is even smaller than the sear spring. I launched one of those in the M&P Armorer class never to be seen again.

My take on the two guns: M&P is reliable, maybe easier to initially shoot well, and ergonomically pleasant, Made in America, about 25% more parts, requires a hammer to disassemble and has a couple of easy to lose parts and in my opinion those small parts may be easier to gunk up. Glock has poorer ergonomics (my opinion), has fewer parts, probably overall cheaper parts if you need them, huge aftermarket, easier to completely dis and re-assemble, found nearly everwhere in the world and for those sold in the US it is made in Austria. I prefer either over a pipe and nail.

[Jonnin]

They need some genius of an engineer to figure out how to do what I will call "removable grips". This radical idea would be to let the grips be screwed onto the frame in a novel way that allowed the user to replace them with various designs, including no finger grooves, or finger grooves that fit different sized hands. People could get all wild and crazy too, doing things like neat colors and patterns, or interesting thumb rests, and other such things.

I know, I know, its a bold move away from tried and true designs, and way out there in the future, but maybe someday someone will be able to examine the engineering challenges that would allow this and figure out a way to make it happen.

[Guest etnsr9c]

How about removing the finger groves on you glock, I did this and I

love it(also under cut my trigger guard, that made a huge difference for me)

[Jamie Jackson]

How about removing the finger groves on you glock, I did this and I

love it(also under cut my trigger guard, that made a huge difference for me)

I did the same.

I much prefer the modification and haven't a clue why Glock felt the need to muck about.

[JReedEsq]

Have you tried a 17? I've found the finger grooves on the full-size or subcompacts fit me better than the compacts.

Also, contrary a lot of people, I like the feel and balance of the full-size 17/22/31 more than the compacts 19/23/32. I ended up trading away my 19 and primarily carry a 27 in summer and in the winter I try to carry full-size as much as possible. It's really not much harder for me to conceal my 17 or 22 than it was my 19.

I have a busy life and although I enjory it; shooting, I have a fairly limited amount of time to devote to it. I really really like that Glocks are a simple platform available in mulitple sizes. That said, the M&Ps seem really nice as well.

If you like the M&Ps, why not stick to them? Or have a little custom work done to your Glock's grip. You probably wouldn't go wrong either way...

[Steelharp]

I did the same.

I much prefer the modification and haven't a clue why Glock felt the need to muck about.

I guess if I knew, absolutely with ZERO doubt that I would NEVER sell it... I could see doing that... because that one is REALLY yours.

The finger grooves fit me fine; but I don't have hamhocks. If they DIDN'T fit me, I just wouldn't bother with a Glock.

[Guest BungieCord]

Glocks are perfect.

Your fingers are defective.

[mikegideon]

I guess if I knew, absolutely with ZERO doubt that I would NEVER sell it... I could see doing that... because that one is REALLY yours.

The finger grooves fit me fine; but I don't have hamhocks. If they DIDN'T fit me, I just wouldn't bother with a Glock.

Same here. My Glocks fit me fine. If they didn't, I would sell/trade them and move to the M&P.

[Jamie Jackson]

LOL. There wasn't an M&P series when I did this, and I have no intentions on selling it. Yep, it's mine alright. It has a bit better than 30,000 rounds through it and shows no sign of slowing down...

I'm slowly but surely modifying my 17 in this direction.

But I appreciate what you guys are saying.

I haven't shot an M&P series, so I have no frame of reference.

But I do plan on picking up a 9mm Shield one of these days. They seem to be a great gun for those times when deep concealment is necessary.

[mikegideon]

I'll chime in with others. The M&P line is great. I have owned one in the past. Just been on a Glock kick for awhile.

[Steelharp]

I had an M&P .45. It really was great; just not great enough, for me, to get me away from Glock. Every time I try something else, I always wind up back in Austria...

[personDJ]

I love my glock groves.

Teach your fingers where to go, your hand will be glad you did.

[MiddTennTaco]

I'd have agreed with the idea that the M&P was a new and somewhat unproven platform about 5-7 years ago but this isn't the case any longer. It's proven itself to be very reliable and is fielded by plenty of law enforcement agencies and civilians alike. Further, one only has to consider the teething pains of the Gen 4 Glock to realize that just because a firearm has a pedigree, it doesn't mean that it is going to be more reliable than something new to the field.

I'd stick with what works best for you. Sounds like you prefer the M&P.

As it stands, I do prefer the M&P all day long. It is an excellent firearm. I just hate beat it up - I carry while I work.

How about removing the finger groves on you glock, I did this and I

love it(also under cut my trigger guard, that made a huge difference for me)

If I could ever find a really cheap used G17, I would probably go through with it and "make it mine" as some have said in this thread. Until then, I couldn't possibly bring myself to do something like that. Like I said, the M&P is perfect for me it's just painful turning such a nice looking gun into a carry gun.

Have you tried a 17? I've found the finger grooves on the full-size or subcompacts fit me better than the compacts.

Also, contrary a lot of people, I like the feel and balance of the full-size 17/22/31 more than the compacts 19/23/32. I ended up trading away my 19 and primarily carry a 27 in summer and in the winter I try to carry full-size as much as possible. It's really not much harder for me to conceal my 17 or 22 than it was my 19.

I have a busy life and although I enjory it; shooting, I have a fairly limited amount of time to devote to it. I really really like that Glocks are a simple platform available in mulitple sizes. That said, the M&Ps seem really nice as well.

If you like the M&Ps, why not stick to them? Or have a little custom work done to your Glock's grip. You probably wouldn't go wrong either way...

I have had a G19 and a G23, both being compacts. I have held and fired many full size Glocks and have had the same problem. I've never bothered with subcompacts and do not intend to. I am going to stick with the M&P, I've already been carrying it for while. Like I've said before, it's unfortunate to put wear on a nice looking gun when I would have loved to have a Glock I wouldn't mind carrying = trashing.

Just get you a Gen 1 or a Gen 2 and you're good to go. I personally like the grooves but I have regular sized hands so they dont bother me. Not to mention the amount of people who like the grooves vs the amount of people whos fingers wont fit in them is probably atleast a 1000:1 ratio so I doubt Glock really cares to be honest.

I was certainly unaware that my fingers are that much larger than the average persons to be considered 1 in a 1000. That I do not believe and that being said I am surprised at the success of the Glock as a duty issued pistol with its limited hand size compatibility.

[MiddTennTaco]

I love my glock groves.

Teach your fingers where to go, your hand will be glad you did.

I don't understand what you're trying to say. I'll get my fingers on an exercise and diet regimen right away. I'm sorry, I am not a hand model and I do not get manicures, I work with my hands!

[mikegideon]

M&P's are tough. You should be able to keep it looking pretty good. I agree they're lots prettier than a Glock. They're still designed for the same kind of use.

[Steelharp]

Like I said, the M&P is perfect for me it's just painful turning such a nice looking gun into a carry gun.

...it's unfortunate to put wear on a nice looking gun when I would have loved to have a Glock I wouldn't mind carrying = trashing.

I think I see your problem... it's a tool. (Do you have a hammer you just can't bear to hit a nail with?) C'mon, man... it'll be ok. Really.

[S&WForty]

Embrace the M&P and never look back. How well do you shoot with it? That's what matters most.

For some reason, my groups with my SW99's started to deteriorate. On two occasions my buddy handed me his G27. I shot it better than my own pistols. In the back of my head I was having Glockopia - that sense I must replace my compact SW99 with a G27. Because Clocks Rule.

I researched trigger opinions online and wondered if I needed to try an M&P. Well, I read in a few places where M&P owners called their triggers "gritty." No! That's how my SW99's feel. Okay, Glock is my only hope for a good Tupperware carry piece.

Then it got worse. I bought a 1911 - my Range Mistress. I took one of the SW99s to the range with the 1911. Heaven help. That single action 1911 made me feel like I was a born shooter. I REALLY was down on my accuracy with the SW99 now. I was ready to JB Weld the SW99 slide to the frame and have a mean looking paperweight. To hell with that crappy SW99 and its wanna be Glock "Quick Action" trigger. I started pricing G27s (ouch!). Then I thought, "What will a trigger job cost me? Maybe I can salvage this thing."

I told my buddy what I was thinking. He insisted I borrow the G27 for a serious and focused side by side comparison. Talk about entering a situation already defeated. I can't believe the SW99 let me touch it that fateful day. My mind was set. That outing was going to confirm it's time to get a Glock.

Previously I had only shot the Glock maybe 5-15 rds at a time. This day? 100 rds through both. The night before I did something I hadn't done in a long time. I dry fired my SW99 many times. I focused on the feel and break over point. I owed it that much.

Then off to the range we went. Overall, I'd say I grouped with the G27 about an inch tighter than my SW99, but all factors considered, it was a wash. I had not shot the SW99 that well in over 4-5 outings with it. Past groups were seriously double the size i had that day. It was Mind Over Matter. Forget the hype, forget the peer pressure, just reset my mind and focus on the basics.

The Glock's trigger safety also got old. For a few rounds, it was fine. After 100, it was a burden.

In a life or death situation, I am confident of my abilities with either pistol. Both are great and reliable.

From someone that had major Glock envy for over two years, respect them but don't think you must have one. Just focus on what you have, and be the best shot you can be.

The M&P has great market support for accessories. Much more so than the SW99 series. You actually have the best of both worlds. Great ergonomics and accessory support in a reliable pistol.

[R1100R]

I wanted to go with a full size polymer pistol for a while. I tried a GEN 4 Model 21 Glock with the smallest strap which is supposed to mimic the SF frame and I couldn't get by the grip feel. I was at a LEO dealer and tried the S&W M&P's also and did not care for the trigger or reset.

. I ended up buying a GEN 3 Glock 20 SF 10MM because the feel and trigger just suited me best. Now for a set of HEINES straight eights and a extended slide release and I will be set.

Get what you think is best and shoot well with.

Edited October 10, 2012 by R1100R

[bubbadavis]

The M&P trigger and reset can be greatly improved with the upgrades from Apex. It's more $ but the trigger gets much better.

R1100R, I've got a M&P compact you need to shoot. It might change your mind about the M&P. A good friend of mine asks me not to bring it around cause its too tempting...