Pistol caliber carbines.

[K191145]

I was discussing truck guns and options in another thread and mentioned a Glock conversion carbine kit as an option although I would rather have a rifle round for vehicle carry. Anyway it started me thinking about pistol caliber carbines and my 86 year old mom. Right now she has a NEF snubby in .32H&R mag. she's shot it but she still has a hard time pulling the trigger, even dry firing a revolver with a lighter trigger is hard for her. Cycling a semi is hard if not impossible for her either. Then I thought about a short light weight carbine with an oversized charging handle in 9mm. Better caliber than .32mag, larger capacity, manageable recoil and simple to operate. Keep it simple, maybe just a good light with not too many extra buttons to push. Maybe an elderly person could handle something like that a little better than a handgun. A pistol caliber carbine is not on my priority list but I would like to have one, mine would be in .45acp with a light and laser, I think it would make a decent home defense weapon, more effective and controllable than a short barrel handgun. I know the shotgun argument, I have a 12 guage 870 at the ready with 5 mule kicking OO buck loads but if I had a .45acp carbine with a 20 or 30 round mag I would probably put the 870 in the gun cabinet and place that beside my bed.

[TMF]

Even a pistol carbine is going to be heavy and difficult to manipulate for an 86 year old woman.  Likely she'll never have to use a firearm in self defense, but if she were to, she's not likely to be an advanced pistol fighter anyway, so why not just get her something that makes noise in the direction of the bad guys?  Those kel-tec (I know) PMR-30s in 22 mag are lightweight and easy to cycle.  I've only fired one before, but I didn't experience any jams, the trigger pull was light enough, hardly any recoil, and the round capacity is incredible.  I don't see any intruder continuing an assault with 30 rounds of 22 mag flying in his direction.  Just a thought.  I don't know how spry your mom is, but I think about my wife, who is in her early 30's and is in great shape.  When she holds my pistol length .300 blk AR she looks like she can barely keep the thing raised up on her shoulder.

[nightrunner]

I heave heard that a 9mm carbine kicks more than a 5.56 AR. Obviously without the muzzle flash and sound though. Mostly due to the blowback operation.

I'm with TMF, that Kel-Tec PMR-30 is probably about the best option I can think of, with low recoil and easy to operate trigger and/or slide.

[bigun]

The PMR-30 is I think a good option. With 30 rounds and a muzzle flash that would scare anyone standing down range even in day light.

[TMF]

The PMR-30 is I think a good option. With 30 rounds and a muzzle flash that would scare anyone standing down range even in day light.

Yeah, that muzzle flash was unexpected my first time firing it. I was going to buy one, but it's just so plasticky. Feels like a water gun. I don't think it would stand up to being used to pistol whip somebody.


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[ttocswob]

Don't rule out a semi-auto .22LR rifle. My wife is early 50's, but with arthritis and other health problems. Zero recoil, easy to operate, and less likely to cause hearing damage. A Marlin 60 w/ 15 rounds of Mini-Mag HP stands in the corner.

[K191145]

Even a pistol carbine is going to be heavy and difficult to manipulate for an 86 year old woman.  Likely she'll never have to use a firearm in self defense, but if she were to, she's not likely to be an advanced pistol fighter anyway, so why not just get her something that makes noise in the direction of the bad guys?  Those kel-tec (I know) PMR-30s in 22 mag are lightweight and easy to cycle.  I've only fired one before, but I didn't experience any jams, the trigger pull was light enough, hardly any recoil, and the round capacity is incredible.  I don't see any intruder continuing an assault with 30 rounds of 22 mag flying in his direction.  Just a thought.  I don't know how spry your mom is, but I think about my wife, who is in her early 30's and is in great shape.  When she holds my pistol length .300 blk AR she looks like she can barely keep the thing raised up on her shoulder.

 

A lot of pistol caliber carbines are bulky and heavy, I don't see why they can't make something slim and lightweight. I had thought about letting he keep my 10/22 close by, chambering a round in a semi is a concern, I just think a charging handle is easier and she would be nervous keeping a round chambered and so would I. She's still sharp minded for her age but she does forget some things. That Kel-Tec looks pretty cool, I don't have any experience with it, it would have to be easy to cycle for her though, I know she can't even begin to cycle a .380 or 9mm handgun.

[K191145]

Don't rule out a semi-auto .22LR rifle. My wife is early 50's, but with arthritis and other health problems. Zero recoil, easy to operate, and less likely to cause hearing damage. A Marlin 60 w/ 15 rounds of Mini-Mag HP stands in the corner.

 

I'm going to check to see if she could cycle my 10/22.

[jgradyc]

Yeah, that muzzle flash was unexpected my first time firing it. I was going to buy one, but it's just so plasticky. Feels like a water gun. I don't think it would stand up to being used to pistol whip somebody.


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This really made me laugh. I'd never thought of using a gun to pistol whip somebody. I'm going to rush out and get a Hi Point 45 ACP... 35 ounces of club worthy metal.  :rofl:

[jgradyc]

A lot of pistol caliber carbines are bulky and heavy, I don't see why they can't make something slim and lightweight. I had thought about letting he keep my 10/22 close by, chambering a round in a semi is a concern, I just think a charging handle is easier and she would be nervous keeping a round chambered and so would I. She's still sharp minded for her age but she does forget some things. That Kel-Tec looks pretty cool, I don't have any experience with it, it would have to be easy to cycle for her though, I know she can't even begin to cycle a .380 or 9mm handgun.

 

I'd suggest that she doesn't need to be able to cycle the handgun. That's what you're there for. It's not like she's going to the range by herself. All she needs to be able to do is turn off the safety and pull the trigger. 

[K191145]

I'd suggest that she doesn't need to be able to cycle the handgun. That's what you're there for. It's not like she's going to the range by herself. All she needs to be able to do is turn off the safety and pull the trigger. 

 

Well, I would rather she not keep a semi-auto chambered, she doesn't have dementia or alzheimer's but she is getting more forgetful in her old age. She still can pull the double action trigger on her .32 revolver but it's hard and getting harder as she gets older. If that were not an issue the revolver would be fine for her.  

[gjohnsoniv]

My Uzi probably isn't a good example to use in this case but it's a brick. It doesn't recoil all that much but it has a stiff charging handle that would be difficult for some people.

[K191145]

My Uzi probably isn't a good example to use in this case but it's a brick. It doesn't recoil all that much but it has a stiff charging handle that would be difficult for some people.

 

For myself I would like to have a carbine but like i said it's not on my top priority list, a new carry handgun is priority right now when I can afford it. I have a bad habit though of spending my money on electricity, water, cable and internet, property taxes and vehicle registration ect. ect. Maybe someday I could break that nasty habit.  :D

I could always make trades but like trading cars with dealers you don't get the best deals, also I like what I have right now too much, i've always been bummed out later when I sold or traded a firearm of mine.

[TMF]

Well, I would rather she not keep a semi-auto chambered, she doesn't have dementia or alzheimer's but she is getting more forgetful in her old age. She still can pull the double action trigger on her .32 revolver but it's hard and getting harder as she gets older. If that were not an issue the revolver would be fine for her.  

 

If I recall correctly, the slide on that PMR was pretty loose.  It's a longer barrel shooting a round with not much kick, so you can imagine that spring isn't very tight.  Certainly lighter than a charging handle.  I know it doesn't seem like much, but the tension from a buffer spring being pulled back via charging handle would be difficult for someone that old.  My grandparents are almost that age.  I can't imagine them trying to manipulate and AR style rifle.  Grandpa still rocks a .30 carbine, so maybe there's something there.

Edited September 7, 2015 by TMF

[K191145]

If I recall correctly, the slide on that PMR was pretty loose.  It's a longer barrel shooting a round with not much kick, so you can imagine that spring isn't very tight.  Certainly lighter than a charging handle.  I know it doesn't seem like much, but the tension from a buffer spring being pulled back via charging handle would be difficult for someone that old.  My grandparents are almost that age.  I can't imagine them trying to manipulate and AR style rifle.  Grandpa still rocks a .30 carbine, so maybe there's something there.

 

Well there will come a time in the not so distant future where she wont be left alone much, she's not going to ever go to any assisted living home if I can help it. I was able to keep my dad home and he left this earth in his own bedroom surrounded by his family, the last week of his life I slept in a recliner chair in his room to maintain his oxygen and breathing treatments so i'll do what I can to keep mom in her home but for right now I want her to have something for protection when she is by herself. Just making sure she has something she can operate is getting harder.

Edited September 7, 2015 by K191145

[K191145]

Here's a good video, definatly more velocity and seems more accurate and faster on the tree he shot.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dvbsxk8jmWE

[Steelharp]

What about a more modern revolver with a better trigger? Something like a Ruger LCR comes to mind. It's available in .22 mag.

 

And a trigger job can always be a big help. Had a guy from Washington State come in the shop a couple weeks ago, had a Model 29 that had a trigger job by Bob Munden, no less. One of the best triggers I've ever felt... and Butch Legg, president of the Gallatin Gun Club, is every bit as good with a trigger.

Edited September 7, 2015 by Steelharp

[K191145]

What about a more modern revolver with a better trigger? Something like a Ruger LCR comes to mind. It's available in .22 mag.

 

And a trigger job can always be a big help. Had a guy from Washington State come in the shop a couple weeks ago, had a Model 29 that had a trigger job by Bob Munden, no less. One of the best triggers I've ever felt... and Butch Legg, president of the Gallatin Gun Club, is every bit as good with a trigger.

 

I would still want to keep it a small caliber for her though. I actually took a chance on her NEF .32 and snipped off the first two coils on the end of the hammer spring and made it a lighter trigger pull. I did that because I bought the gun in the 80's for $160. I wouldn't have done that to an expensive gun. Anyway it worked out well and I have fired over 100 rounds since I did that, there's still a good strike on the primer. How about a S&W Airweight with a trigger job in .22mag.? do they make an Airweight in .22 mag?

[TMF]

That LCR in .22 mag that Steelharp mentioned is a lightweight revolver.


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[MacGyver]

I've got an Airweight in .22 mag. It's a great pistol, but it's a heavy pull - probably at least 12 lbs.

[K191145]

I've got an Airweight in .22 mag. It's a great pistol, but it's a heavy pull - probably at least 12 lbs.

 

I looked on their site, it's a pricy one though. Probably get a Wolff replacement spring kit for it.

[K191145]

That LCR in .22 mag that Steelharp mentioned is a lightweight revolver.


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That's a pricy one too but not as much as the S&W I checked out. Seems that the .22 mags are more expensive than their .38's.

[TMF]

That's a pricy one too but not as much as the S&W I checked out. Seems that the .22 mags are more expensive than their .38's.

Strange indeed.


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[hipower]

That's a pricy one too but not as much as the S&W I checked out. Seems that the .22 mags are more expensive than their .38's.

 
 

Strange indeed.


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You guys are right. 22mag revolvers are stupid crazy high from S&W. I've been looking at the 351PD and it is just out of this world for a small pistol. At least that's my opinion.

[Patton]

If she can not rack the slide on an auto then it is a long gun or a revolver. Charter Arms still makes some long barrel 22mags that are under $400. I have no clue what the trigger pull is.

Someone mentioned the recoil on a pistol caliber carbine and the only one I have shot was a Beretta Storm; it was very light. Have you considered a 410 youth pump shotgun with slugs?