Question about the "new" permit, then changing to "enhanced."

[chances R]

2 hours ago, trevorst said:

Where exactly do you see that the concealed carry permit is TN only or is this social media heresay.

 

 

The new CCP has only been out 2 weeks.  Too early to tell its acceptance/ reciprocity.  However, ND has already announced it will accept only the ECP.

Edited January 20, 2020 by chances R

[trevorst]

Well it's a good thing I won't be going to ND anytime soon...

 

 

[One1]

5 hours ago, DaveTN said:

It’s one of three options.

Have you been to a Tennessee HCP class?  Did something happen in that class that made you safer to be around the rest of us? People can be held responsible for their actions without having to pay a government appointed trainer to put their stamp of approval them.

Yep, two men and one woman that held their guns sideways down the line of people standing were trying to take their safety OFF were drilled repeatedly to keep their muzzle forward. Awareness isn’t for everyone. Some need taught.  

3 hours ago, trevorst said:

Where exactly do you see that the concealed carry permit is TN only or is this social media heresay.

 

 

Assuming you skipped the entire thread and started on page 3. This has been covered multiple times in the thread. The non enhanced is a learners permit IMO.  Seems the other states feel the same. 

Edited January 20, 2020 by One1

[trevorst]

Other than North Dakota what states are calling this a Learners permit?

 

This is how fake news happens....

 

The key thing in your post is the "in my opinion"

 

Edited January 20, 2020 by trevorst

[Chucktshoes]

8 minutes ago, trevorst said:

Other than North Dakota what states are calling this a Learners permit?

 

This is how fake news happens....

 

The key thing in your post is the "in my opinion"

 

Maine, New Hampshire, South Carolina, Florida, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Colorado all currently don’t accept the TN Concealed Permit. North Dakota is only today’s addition, not the last. 

[DaveTN]

6 hours ago, One1 said:

Yep, two men and one woman that held their guns sideways down the line of people standing were trying to take their safety OFF were drilled repeatedly to keep their muzzle forward. Awareness isn’t for everyone. Some need taught.  

And you think those people would not have got that training without government intervention?? 

[Jeb48]

I learned a little TN law in the HCP class, which I assume is part of the online class. But I already had my NY permit which requires no training just a lot of time and money, and they think handguns are so dangerous that you can not even own one or shoot one till you have a permit. I then took two NRA hand gun classes and the classes for the Utah permit.

At least two in our HCP class learned somethings from the live fire, they had never fired a handgun before. They didn't do anything dangerous, so they did listen in class, but did need some help from the instructor.

I still believe in constitutional carry, but training should be encouraged.

[One1]

15 hours ago, DaveTN said:

And you think those people would not have got that training without government intervention?? 

Correct. These are the people saying a training course is too bothersome. 

[DaveTN]

13 minutes ago, One1 said:

Correct. These are the people saying a training course is too bothersome. 

Okay well, we just have to agree to disagree on the idea of government mandated training. I’m fully aware that a person needs training. But I don’t believe it needs to be a paid training class.

But if we are going to require government training; why not do it right? How about we require the same training on the use of deadly force, with a written test, and the same range qualification, as required for Police Officers in our jurisdiction?

See where this is headed?

[chances R]

Which this circles me back to a true ECP, with a written test, and a practical pistol qualification based on basic LEO standards.  Completely voluntary.  BUT, the ECP would allow carry where LEO carries.  Otherwise, constitutional carry.  An option similar to the CCP could be available, but would be an online program similar to hunter's safety course at no charge.

[DaveTN]

16 minutes ago, chances R said:

Which this circles me back to a true ECP, with a written test, and a practical pistol qualification based on basic LEO standards.  Completely voluntary.  BUT, the ECP would allow carry where LEO carries.  Otherwise, constitutional carry.  An option similar to the CCP could be available, but would be an online program similar to hunter's safety course at no charge.

You will never get pro-gun folks to agree to that. I would bet the number of shooters that can’t pass the LEO qualification for their area is through the roof. It would be seen as far left gun control. But that’s how I see the classes you teach being required by the government. It keeps the poor and those immediately needing guns because of domestic violence from legally carrying guns.

You have a right to carry. Its black and white with no grey. Get on one side or the other. Now…having said that; our state does not agree with me and does not recognize an individual right to bear arms. Carrying a gun without buying the privilege from them is a criminal offense.

BTW… If Constitutional carry was passed, and the training requirement was on the individual and not state mandated; I believe you might see your business increase. I say might because there are a lot of highly qualified people that don’t hold any paperwork saying they are state qualified. That would be your competition.

However… any of our opinions really don’t matter. The legislature did what they wanted to do. Some day they may decide to change it again; who knows. But I suspect it will be awhile.

[chances R]

So DaveTN, I did mention Const. Carry which would be inclusive of those regardless of training or finances.  Secondly, I don't teach for a living and couldn't care less of about competition.  I teach because I think my background offers a quality product that I like to share.  Teaching one weekend a month is hardly an occupation.  The ECP I mentioned is for those that take the responsibility seriously and would have minimal restrictions on their carry because they have met a 'higher' standard, such as a school resource officer for example.

 

[300winmag]

States like Mississippi that have enhanced licenses are actually enhanced licenses.  You can carry just about anywhere in public legally with an enhanced license in Mississippi, such as K-12 schools and colleges. That obviously did not happen with this 'enhanced' permit name change that we got in Tennessee last year.  

[chances R]

Just saw an ad where USCCA is offering the CC on-line course, 90 min. for $37.97.

[DaveTN]

37 minutes ago, chances R said:

Just saw an ad where USCCA is offering the CC on-line course, 90 min. for $37.97.

Here are about 15 of them. I didn't go through all of them, but saw it as low as $24.

https://www.tn.gov/safety/tnhp/handgun/locate.html

[DJTC45]

They should have just left everything as it was. If it "ain't" broke don't try to fix it, same with the "new" style of Drivers License, what since does a Star make just to fly or enter a Fed. Building. All this does is create a problem that didn't exist till the Government sticks their nose in.

[willis68]

4 hours ago, DJTC45 said:

They should have just left everything as it was. If it "ain't" broke don't try to fix it, same with the "new" style of Drivers License, what since does a Star make just to fly or enter a Fed. Building. All this does is create a problem that didn't exist till the Government sticks their nose in.

I could not agree more 

[trevorst]

Not to beat a dead horse but SC says nothing about "enhanced vs Non" for the state of TN.  Other than the one website I dont see any state other than North Dakota and in fact when I called SC they said good to go over the phone, their only concern is resident vs non resident permits.

http://www.sled.sc.gov/Reciprocity1.aspx

 

Something really needs to be done about the confusion of differing state laws on carry.  It amazes me that a state can supercede the constitution.

Edited January 25, 2020 by trevorst

[DaveTN]

1 hour ago, trevorst said:

Something really needs to be done about the confusion of differing state laws on carry.  

Other than them recognizing the individual right to keep and bear arms; no it does not. You research the states you want to carry a gun in and you understand their laws. We absolutely do not want something all states would agree with, or the Federal Government having authority over. We don’t need “help” from anyone else.

[quedz]

https://handgunlaw.us/states/tennessee.pdf

[trevorst]

Yeah I seen that website and when I went to the SC and the FL websites that is not the information that is given.  A call to SC also differed from that website.

 

That's the only website that has that info also.

 

If that's the legit info then I will probably upgrade... SC though when I called said that was not the case.

Edited January 26, 2020 by trevorst

[Gary Slider]

IF you look at the SC Page at www.handgunlaw.us the map only concerns the Enhanced Permit issued by TN and not their Concealed Permit. Handgunlaw.us is working on a list of states that will honor the TN Concealed Permit.  We state that below the map with a Red "NOTICE" saying that not all states that honor the Enhanced will  honor the Concealed. DE, NV, PA and WI most likely will not honor the TN Concealed but not positive about that just going on what they have done in the past. Nebraska has already stated they will not honor the TN concealed. It will be a good while before we know what states will or won't honor the Concealed and that is the reason we made the Map on the TN Page only valid for those with an Enhanced TN. 

https://statepatrol.nebraska.gov/services/concealed-handgun-permits/nebraska-reciprocity

Gary Slider                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        

Edited January 27, 2020 by Gary Slider

[Gary Slider]

https://www.tn.gov/safety/tnhp/handgun/reciprocity.html

Alaska, Arizona, Kansas, Louisiana, Texas and Virginia only honor permits from those 21 or older. TN reciprocity listing doesn’t show them as 21 only.

Nevada Honors the WV Provisional which is only issued to those 18 to 20 years old. When they turn 21 they have to convert it to  the WV Regular Permit. TN says Nevada doesn't honor permits issued to those 18-20 Y/O.  West Virginia does honor non-resident permits from the states it honors but you must be 21 even though they issue to their residents who are 18.     They removed that Resident Only from their statutes 10 to 12 years ago.  I know this as I am a West Virginia Resident and a Firearms Instructor and talk to the people in the Capitol that take care of Reciprocity issues for West Virginia.  Even the states don't have all the correct info. I don't believe anyone can have everything 100% as the laws are so screwy and then some Judge makes a ruling or some AG comes along and changes how he/she says they are going to interrupt this or that law or even write a new Administrative Rule.  Then it really gets crazy.   

Gary Slider 

Edited January 27, 2020 by Gary Slider

[Guest PAULSHOOT]

On 1/16/2020 at 10:05 PM, lock n' load said:

I personally think the new permit is not a good idea. Showing some proficiency at shooting a stationary piece of paper gives the instructor some idea if the student can hit the broad side of a barn. Also, I wonder if the online class goes into details about common sense laws about using deadly force? There was a guy in GA that is charged with felony murder for shooting and killing a teen for stealing his cellphone. If I'm not mistaken, you don't have to take a class to get a CCW in GA. Just go to the courthouse, fill out some paperwork and if your BG check comes back clean you get your permit. I think all states issuing a permit to carry a gun should at least give some legal perspective on the use of deadly force in their state so that applicants know some basic rules. Most places you can't shoot someone over stolen property. If a person doesn't know that then they will be in for a rude awakening if the do. Am I wrong for thinking that way?

My opinion --- you are CORRECT in thinking that way. I have made considerable effort regarding Laws of Self Defense (primarily info from Andrew Branca, including his book Laws of Self Defense and Bronze Membership / FREE? that gives weekly Podcasts, and CCWSafe podcasts and information).  I AM NOT A LAWYER NOR AN EXPERT.   

I feel there is a need for more regulations (should say Education in the Carry Permit Classes) as it can only help us stay Legal in a Self Defense. Legal Defense is the second battle if you have won the First Battle by defending your self from Death or Bodily Injury. Those are the only two things you can be legal for defending (not property except in TX, BTW there are requirements to be met in TX for property defense).  

 

 

A legal defense if you are prosecuted for what YOU THINK is Self Defense is very tricky subject (you can spend a lot of money, which is where services like CCWSafe come in, defending legal aspect. You can also end up in prison for a long time if you mess up one of the 5 elements of Laws of Self Defense). 

Do you even know the 5 elements?   

[Guest PAULSHOOT]

This Thread has been an interesting read with a lot of different view points. Thanks - Good Web Site for making one think beyond the Extreme Conservative or Extreme Liberal views. Of course we all know Bad Guys get guns and don't worry about permits, or signs that say No Guns Allowed. Still, I am about as scared of some CC that Carry a Gun as I am of the Bad Guys.  Lot of Hot Heads types and other types that get permits.  

I was not aware the new CC required any training. Looks like it does,  copied this from the web site (TN) provided in a previous reply.  Seems one might as well do the Enhanced Course. . 

Within 1 year - photo copy of certificate of completion, affidavit from instructor, school, club, org or group that conducted/taught attesting to completion of course/class, or copy of any document showing completion of course/class/required experience :  Hunter education/safety course approved by the Tennessee wildlife resources agency or a similar agency of another state.  Firearms safety/training course by one of the following: o Organization specializing in firearms training/safety (NRA, etc.) o Law enforcement agency, junior college, college, private/public institution/organization, or firearms training school  Offered to general public  Using instructors certified by TDOSHS or “organization specializing in firearms training.” o Law enforcement firearms safety/training course/class offered for:  Security Guards  Investigators  Special Deputies  Any division or subdivision of law/security enforcement  Firearms training/safety course/class, including electronic, video, or online course: o By firearms instructor certified by TDOSHS or “Organization specializing in firearms training/safety o Meets qualifications:  Conveys the basic knowledge and skills necessary for safe handling/storage of firearms/ammunition and includes firearm safety rules, handgun uses, features, basic skills and techniques, safe cleaning, transportation, and storage methods;  Conveys the current state law on carrying handguns;  ls not less than ninety (90) minutes in length;  Includes a test or quiz that confirms competency of the course or class curriculum; and  Provides a printable certificate of course or class completion.  Any other firearms training that TDOSHS deems adequate.