Smith & Wesson Quoting 6-8 Week Repair of a Factory Defect on Brand New Gun

[bobsguns]

2 hours ago, gun sane said:

Put more money into the PR department than into R&D.

Well, someone had to make that decision, no? 

Still sad to know this. 

[DennisG]

Adding another data point to the subject of bad quality control, I stopped by Sportsman's Warehouse today and asked to see one of these new Compact 2.0 optics-ready models. Take-up in the trigger was rough, like there was sand in it. That's easily fixed, but should not be there on a brand new gun!

[TGO David]

1 hour ago, DennisG said:

Adding another data point to the subject of bad quality control, I stopped by Sportsman's Warehouse today and asked to see one of these new Compact 2.0 optics-ready models. Take-up in the trigger was rough, like there was sand in it. That's easily fixed, but should not be there on a brand new gun!

There doesn’t seem to be any consistency with anything coming out of S&W lately except the piles of cash they’re heaping onto their social media influencers. 
 

I saw that one of them just bought a new Ford Raptor.  He’d bought a new Ford Bronco within the last 6 months.  I’m not unhappy about his success, but S&W is throwing money at salesmanship and letting quality of product and reasonable quickness for customer service suffer.  It seems like maybe they should flip that script and focus on the product. 
 

Meanwhile, if you’re keeping track, the new gun that I bought — a defective item that couldn’t be returned to a store like any other defective item would have been — has been gone for almost 30 days. That’s $600 down the toilet until it shows back up. 
 

if someone you care about wants to buy their first gun, don’t make it a Smith and Wesson. 

[bobsguns]

9 hours ago, TGO David said:

if someone you care about wants to buy their first gun, don’t make it a Smith and Wesson. 

For a semi, I agree. Their revolvers are still seemingly well-made with minimal issues, or at least I don't hear about them like I do their semi's. 

As for their marketing efforts, I can say I don't blame them. The handgun world is highly, highly competitive. Imports are killing the US mfgrs in the semi-auto side of things. Sadly, too much of the buying public is swayed with slick advertising versus gun knowledge or closely examining the gun before buying it.

FN is a good example of minimal marketing, IMO. You rarely see their ads other than a couple of gun rags. Yet their guns are among the most accurate & well-made out there. Yet they still lag well behind almost every other major US gun mfgr in terms of sales. Agree or disagree, it's the truth.

While experienced gun owners use ads as a means of discovering a new model, I doubt we get swayed by the ad if the gun is merely average (or worse). The ad I loathe the most is the tacticool guy with the wrap around shades who is "guarding" his wife in an urban setting. It tugs at the emotions rather than showing how their gun performs better. And isn't performance the entire reason we buy a specific gun? 

Maybe one day a gun guy will once again be running S&W & can unscrew their warranty repair department?

[TGO David]

2 minutes ago, bobsguns said:

As for their marketing efforts, I can say I don't blame them. The handgun world is highly, highly competitive. Imports are killing the US mfgrs in the semi-auto side of things. Sadly, too much of the buying public is swayed with slick advertising versus gun knowledge or closely examining the gun before buying it.

I don't blame them for investing in marketing.  I absolutely criticize them for not holding up the end of the buying experience that matter:  Quality and Customer Service.

 

2 minutes ago, bobsguns said:

FN is a good example of minimal marketing, IMO. You rarely see their ads other than a couple of gun rags. Yet their guns are among the most accurate & well-made out there. Yet they still lag well behind almost every other major US gun mfgr in terms of sales. Agree or disagree, it's the truth.

You're making my point, really.  FN makes excellent firearms but sucks at marketing to the consumer.  Smith & Wesson knows how to do a media blitz, but the quality of their firearms is starting to be very hit or miss.

There is a balance to be had.

 

2 minutes ago, bobsguns said:

While experienced gun owners use ads as a means of discovering a new model, I doubt we get swayed by the ad if the gun is merely average (or worse). The ad I loathe the most is the tacticool guy with the wrap around shades who is "guarding" his wife in an urban setting. It tugs at the emotions rather than showing how their gun performs better. And isn't performance the entire reason we buy a specific gun? 

Again, making my point.  If experienced gun owners begin to "catch on" and stop buying, but the new gun owner walks into a shop and unwittingly plunks down cash -- possibly all of the cash that they have -- for a subpar gun because the marketing was awesome, that's a problem.

 

2 minutes ago, bobsguns said:

Maybe one day a gun guy will once again be running S&W & can unscrew their warranty repair department?

Anything is possible.  Whether it happens before Smith and Wesson's reputation is completely ruined remains to be seen.

 

[Moped]

Honestly see S&W going the way of Colt soon.  They seem to be on the same trajectory. High prices. shoddy workmanship, high opinion of themselves. 

But you all know, I've not been a S&W M&P fan boy for a long time. Since I bought a S&W Compact M&P 9mm.  There are other makers of semi-autos that I think are better, both foreign and domestic.  Give me a Ruger or an FN any day, over anything S&W makes. Love their revolvers, but I was priced out of that market a long time ago, by them.  I'm a purveyor of working firearms, not expensive ones.

[tnhawk]

14 hours ago, TGO David said:

There doesn’t seem to be any consistency with anything coming out of S&W lately except the piles of cash they’re heaping onto their social media influencers. ....
 

 

Hope S&W gets your pistol repaired soon.

I have a Springfield Armory pistol that required a trip for warranty repair.  SA promptly sent a shipping label, repaired and returned the 10 year old gun in under two weeks.  This is the reason SA fills much of the space in my safe.

Edited February 6, 2022 by tnhawk

[gregintenn]

I think it would be beneficial if somehow someone in management at Smith and Wesson could receive a link to this thread and read it.

I’m not much into semi autos, but will never buy a new Smith and Wesson revolver as long as they insist on installing those damn locks on them.

The prices being paid today for the old revolvers are an indication I’m not the only one who thinks this.

I hope you get your pistol back soon and it is repaired to your satisfaction.

[bobsguns]

10 hours ago, Moped said:

I'm a purveyor of working firearms, not expensive ones.

Not priced a Colt or Ruger revolver lately? 

And S&W revolvers work quite well.

[bobsguns]

5 hours ago, gregintenn said:

I think it would be beneficial if somehow someone in management at Smith and Wesson could receive a link to this thread and read it.

Why do you think upper management never goes to the SHOT show or NRA conventions? They don't want to associate with the unwashed masses nor hear their complaints. Nor are upper management "gun guys", they're f-ing bean counters, MBA's. I bet none of them have a carry permit & can count the number of times they've been shooting on one hand & have fingers left over. 

Here's some irony. The best gun mfgr currently that responds quickly to customer's concerns & desires these days is CZ USA. Their CEO? A woman. 

But I wouldn't hold my breath on big wigs listening to their buying public. H&K is infamous for this. 

[deerslayer]

5 hours ago, gregintenn said:

I’m not much into semi autos, but will never buy a new Smith and Wesson revolver as long as they insist on installing those damn locks on them.

THIS

[TGO David]

1 hour ago, bobsguns said:

Here's some irony. The best gun mfgr currently that responds quickly to customer's concerns & desires these days is CZ USA. Their CEO? A woman. 

I don't understand why that is ironic.

[bobsguns]

31 minutes ago, TGO David said:

I don't understand why that is ironic.

Several reasons, actually.

1) Women claim men "never listen". Here's actual proof.

2) The ONLY gun mfgr that has a female CEO is one of THE most reactive to their buying base.

3) CZ USA has come from being a rare, communist-owned gun mfgr to a small importer to one of THE largest gun sellers in the USA. All because they listen to their buyers.

[Moped]

2 hours ago, bobsguns said:

Not priced a Colt or Ruger revolver lately? 

And S&W revolvers work quite well.

Do not own a Colt revolver, but have owned three in the past. I do own several Rugers. Two semi-autos and one Blackhawk convertible. Their semi-autos are reliable and affordable. The revolvers are out of the range I want to pay anymore, though. 
 

If any of you hear of me paying more than six bills for anything firearms related, y’all better call the guys in those little white jackets, cause I done lost my marbles. Two many good firearms out there for under that, price figure.

[bobsguns]

15 hours ago, Moped said:

Two many good firearms out there for under that, price figure.

"Two" is about right for under $600 with both of them being a CZ of some sort. 

[Grayfox54]

S&W is suffering from the same malady as hundreds of other well known manufacturers of many different products. In the beginning  they built their name by making the best quality and longest lasting products they could. They took real pride in what they made.

But somewhere along the line the bean counters took over. Quality takes second place to cost. QC is minimal at best. Let the customer be the beta tester. Make it as cheap as possible and get it out the door. 

I dearly love my S&Ws. I collect them. However, none of mine have locks and only one has any MIM parts. I haven't cared much for anything S&W has made since about the mid-90s.  Its sad how far they've fallen. 

[bobsguns]

7 hours ago, Grayfox54 said:

But somewhere along the line the bean counters took over.

I believe the root of all problems firearms related are right there, IMO. Heck, it bankrupted Colt at one point.

[papa61]

On 2/8/2022 at 12:00 PM, Grayfox54 said:

S&W is suffering from the same malady as hundreds of other well known manufacturers of many different products. In the beginning  they built their name by making the best quality and longest lasting products they could. They took real pride in what they made.

Cadillac, Harley Davidson, RCA, the list is long. For Harley and Caddy it was lowering standards to meet a price point and riding on the name.

Still no word David?

[TGO David]

UPDATE for 15-FEB-20022

Yesterday marked four weeks since Smith & Wesson checked the handgun into their systems.  I called them today, for the first time since returning the gun, to see where my case was at within the expected progression of events.

The gentleman I spoke with was super polite and spoke with his supervisor to get a better estimate for me than what their software could provide.  He said that he expects my gun to be seen by the repair team in about two more weeks, which would put me at the six-week mark.  If they are able to pull that off, it will be two weeks ahead of the eight-week estimate they gave initially.

I will make a note to check with them again sometime around March 1st.

[TGO David]

UPDATE for 17-FEB-20022

Yes, only three days have passed since my last update, however...  my M&P shipped back today! 

I received a FedEx tracking number earlier this afternoon and it is currently scheduled to be delivered in the next few days.  I have no idea what they've done to it yet, but I guess I will know more once it arrives.

Stay tuned!

[bobsguns]

21 minutes ago, TGO David said:

UPDATE for 17-FEB-20022

I have no idea what they've done to it yet, but I guess I will know more once it arrives.

You're gonna get back a Sigma!!!!!!   

[TGO David]

17 minutes ago, bobsguns said:

You're gonna get back a Sigma!!!!!!   

 

Or a VP9 if they really want to mess with me. 

 

[bubbadavis]

15 minutes ago, TGO David said:

 

Or a VP9 if they really want to mess with me. 

 

You aren't that lucky

[TGO David]

1 hour ago, bubbadavis said:

You aren't that lucky

I kind of want one, though.  I think @bobsguns has been waging subliminal warfare.

[bubbadavis]

7 minutes ago, TGO David said:

I kind of want one, though.  I think @bobsguns has been waging subliminal warfare.

I picked one up a few years ago. Really like it but it's a range toy for me. The out-of-box trigger is really nice.