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And I'm sorry if my comments come off as harsh, or upset. Please understand I'm in a very foul mood, and worried about my wife. While I would not get into a physical altercation with someone, I do feel the need to vent at times. And in a couple weeks, I may even drop the lawsuit idea. But right now, this is just kinda my way of dealing with the urge to skin someone alive, and I knew you guys would be understanding.

Ok, so a little background...I am 42, and originally from Rochester NY...that said I was in G&L on Friday 11/23/2012 to purchase the Christmas present my wife is going to give to me, a .270 Ruger American rifle, cool I know...she is the best! So, they give me a piece of paper to put my name and ph.# for a raffle, I half heartedly listened because I almos NEVER win anything.( I won a 5th of Jack single barrel March of this year) I get a call at 3:05pm on Sunday, I think...wtf is calling me on Sunday....heh...G&L calling to say I won a Sig 1911 22....effin A right? Now, the irony....I am a NY'r, but in 6 mos I win a bottle of Jack and a gun...my friends up north have not stopped with the "you might be a redneck" jokes...but I say...I love it!! Plus WE have no snow and better hunting regs!!

[quote name='K191145' timestamp='1353980866' post='851090'] Well i'm glad you cleared that up, so the next time I catch some thief breaking into my tool shed i'll just shoot him in the back, much easier that way. He started the situation anyway.[/quote] Well I don't think that's exactly what anyone is saying. Folks are mistaking measures taken to protect your property as punitive rather than protective. He wasn't killed because he shoplifted. He was killed because he shoplifted, then fought the security guard. If i catch someone stealing out of my toolshed I have every friggin right to confront them. If they chose to escalate the situation with physical violence you better believe I'm going to respond with a greater level of violence. Besides, f**k this guy. He was a dirtbag, likely raised from dirtbags, and will no longer contaminate society.

We are a weak people when we have to stand by and watch thieves walk away. I don't care if its a store employee, Security Guard or Cop; no special training is needed to walk up to a person and ask them to step back into the store they are under arrest. If they decided to fight; so be it. People die fighting trained cops the same as Security Guards. When we have to stand by like sheep and let the criminals have their way there will be no safety anywhere.

He should have just made them pay double the regular price - so that the prices were more fairly redistributed - lol!

At any rate, a great loss to society for sure. He mighta cured cancer or paid taxes someday.

[quote name='vontar' timestamp='1353972096' post='851004'] I remember many times reading about the Mexican Army 'accidentally' crossed our border and we just turned them around and sent them home. [/quote] I remember when drug smugglers were illegally entering the country carrying over 700 pounds worth of pot and when the officers took offensive action, they ended up in jail and the smugglers got a freebie and continued to smuggle drugs for years afterwards until they were caught again.

[quote name='crimsonaudio' timestamp='1353971601' post='851001'] And you don't think this sounds like a wannabe cop? I don't WANT to be a cop, or I'd be one. If I see someone stealing a DVD player from WM, I'm going to be a good witness - maybe that's not 'principled' enough for you (again, said with very serious face), but my job isn't law enforcement. If someone were being hurt, that's a different story, but that's not the case here. [/quote] No one is asking you to risk anything, or saying that you should do anything. A Security Guard with the help of a couple of employees was doing his job. Since we don’t know what happened I’m going to give the benefit of the doubt to the Security Guard and the employees; not dirt bag thief. I know I’m really going out on a limb here, but I doubt those store employees jumped that guy and choked him out for no reason. Does Wal-Mart have a company policy that says the only shop lifters you can take into custody are those that come willingly? I’m sorry the guy is dead, but he put the events in motion that led to his death. It’s sad that some people feel because he died at the hands of security for one of the largest corporations in this country that his family should hit the lottery or that the people during their job should be arrested. What if he is a cop wannabe; is there something wrong with that? A lot of guys work store security until they can get on as a cop. Being a Police Officer s an honored profession. It takes a long time to get on some departments and not everyone can make the cut. Would I stop a shop lifter or help someone else do it? Nope. But if I saw a thief attack a security guard or a cop; I would help them if they looked like they needed my help. How do you know the guard wasn’t attacked?

There is no greater gift than Brut and a pocketknife...

If they walk out with my stuff, they're gonna get their nutz sizzled.

I'm talking about people thinking it's ok to let a thief be a thief because it's not on their property or it's a corporations property. The corporation doesn't think its worth the risk because the legal system has been so corrupted that anyone and everyone can be sued over nothing. If they wouldn't face frivolous lawsuits, then maybe they would be a bit more stringent about keeping their rightful goods in their store and not watching them walkout. Stealing pennies? Those pennies add up and they are someone's pennies. Rambo wannabe? Police reject private security? renta-a-cop? cop wannabe? Sounds like a lot of people here are carrying baggage. You talk about risk/reward? Here's one for you - [b]if you risk breaking the law, you risk consequences[/b]. Also under the "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" doctrine. This thief's death is [b]directly [/b]attributable to [b][i]his [/i][/b]decision to break the law. If he did not decide it was ok to steal merchandise, he would still be alive. He decided he was above the law and things spun up from there. Hoping that the thief's family sues Walmart for millions . I hope Walmart sues them for the thief's bad decision. He is the one that kicked this whole thing off. Everything that happened is a direct result of the decision he made. People think it is ok to stand there and watch a criminal flaunt the law. Remember that when someone decides to come into your house or place of business and walk out with your stuff.

A "piggy head" grenade would be crazy!!!! Habib and Ahkmed would line up to dive on it to save their buddies!!! Dave S

Ah but Obummer is SOOOOOOOOO much better than that gun-hating Romney.

Love it. I think the black bird would have been more appropriate though.

[quote name='RobertNashville' timestamp='1353951064' post='850833'] Security guard or simply private citizen, except in significantly extenuating circumstances, no one should be killed to protect property; most especially property that the one doing the killing doesn't even own. This thief deserved to be stopped and arrested and tried and, if found guilty he deserved to be punished but he didn't deserve to be executed. [/quote] He wasn't executed. He triggered a response and he played the game. Can't complain when it doesn't go your way. Why do we hold responders to a higher responsibility than the criminal? The criminal went in knowing what he was doing, the reponders did simply that - respond. I give them a whole lot more latitutde. This attitude is why recidivism is a given, not an anomaly.

[quote name='UncleJak' timestamp='1353937686' post='850748'] I don't believe we should kill thieves. Instead we should cut off their hands. [/quote] Touch of Islam, eh?

Well, no stampede that I heard of, but I found an interesting video of some ALMOST success! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4oV5bPeMLI

[url="http://www.ajc.com/news/news/crime-law/alleged-shoplifter-dies-after-being-subdued-by-wal/nTFPx/"]http://www.ajc.com/news/news/crime-law/alleged-shoplifter-dies-after-being-subdued-by-wal/nTFPx/[/url] Now I don't like shoplifting but there's a limit to what employees and some police reject private security Rambo can do. I don't have very much respect for "private security" cop wannabe's, there's no real standards in training and I don't recognize any real authority they think they have. Seems that any bozo can buy a business licence that says So & So Security Co., buy a pair of dark blue pants with a stripe and a light blue shirt and pin a store bought badge on it and claim they have some authority over other people. Like I said, I give no respect to a badge unless it's issued by a city, county, state, or federal government.

[quote name='mcurrier' timestamp='1353943134' post='850775']Putin should know. Many expatriates of communist and dictator run countries who are living in America have expressed their fear of what we are quickly becoming because they recognize that the same exact thing is happening here that happened in their countries. They witnessed it and lived it first hand. Are we to doubt what they say? They know more about it than we who have lived free all of our lives do.[/quote] A coworker stuck a local Dem party ballot on the wall as a joke in our rather right-leaning office just before the election. Our cleaning lady is an immigrant from one of those former USSR countries. When she saw that stuck on the wall, she angrily asked, "Who here votes Democrat???" When she was told it was put up as a joke, she settled down. I told my coworker, "She knows communism when she sees it."

[quote name='DaveTN' timestamp='1353973998' post='851030'] No one is asking you to risk anything, or saying that you should do anything. A Security Guard with the help of a couple of employees was doing his job. Since we don’t know what happened I’m going to give the benefit of the doubt to the Security Guard and the employees; not dirt bag thief. I know I’m really going out on a limb here, but I doubt those store employees jumped that guy and choked him out for no reason. Does Wal-Mart have a company policy that says the only shop lifters you can take into custody are those that come willingly?[/quote] You know, that's an excellent point - I had assumed (pesky word) that WM's policy was like most corporations - hands off under all circumstances. But after going back and reading through the (potentially dated) WM policies posted earlier, I'm not sure the guard did anything against WM policies. That's really the sticking point for me - if he abided by the rules of the property owner, then I don't have a problem with the result if they were simply subduing someone who had become violent after approach. I assumed (there's that word) that he had taken it upon himself to deal with this issue in a manner counter to WM's policy, and that assumption may well have been incorrect. So I'm doing something you rarely see on the internet and offering a mea culpa, at least until we know more.

If she's really possessed you can count it as a ménage a trois.

In my best Southern drawl, "Daum Yanke", CONGRATS!!!

[quote name='Steelharp' timestamp='1353943098' post='850772']Interesting statement of how things are today. The divisiveness has got to go away, somehow.[/quote] Yep. I hate it when the libs do it. I hate it twice as much when someone on the conservative side does it. We're supposed to be the mature ones.

Interesting links above. Some thoughts I've been mulling over recently concerning possible bans, the other post regarding confiscation, etc... Since the election (or, since the first election, it could be argued) there has been an enormous run on guns of all types and calibers, as well as the ammo that feeds them. Sales have been brisk, and are moreso since the recent election. [i]A lot[/i] of people are buying guns- and a large number of them are these types of weapons that would be banned- [i]precisely[/i] out of the concern that there [i]will[/i] be some type of restriction / ban coming from DC in the near future. I think that, in many respects, the current administration has achieved in making this an even more heavily armed nation that it already was, though I'm sure that was not their intent. That said, if a ban comes down, at least in the extreme form the Dems would like for it to read- I'm curious as to how many people- recent purchasers [u]or[/u] long time owners- would actually surrender their weapons. I guess I have an internal struggle with the 'no grandfathering' clause. Again, a lot of people bought these guns/weapons for this very reason. Some would surrender them, of course, but I would be inclined to believe that an enormous amount (or maybe 'a large number' would be a better way to say it) of owners would not- at least, not voluntarily. One example- some are owned as a result of private party sales. The feds don't have a way to know how many, or where they might be. The flip side of that is, especially in states like ours, you can sell a gun you own in a private party sale, and not be required by law to report it or document it. So for all those who have bought one and have the purchase recorded by an FFL or a LGS, who's to say it hasn't been sold by the purchaser? Even if there were a threat of imprisonment for those who didnt surrender their weapons, I'm pretty sure our correctional facilities are already stretched to the max, and would not be able to accomodate 1 million (or wayyy more) fresh arrivals, statewide or nationally. Barring a thorough house-to-house search of every residence in the country by military, law enforcement, or the UN, if you wish... I don't think there would be a 'do-able' way for a thorough accounting to take place. No one has the resources to do a complete grid search of the US and all the land and property therein. Add to that that even if something like that began to occur, word of such activity would probably spread like wildfire, leading to 1) massive hiding of property by owners, or 2) possibly something more confrontational on a widespread basis. Not to mention the financial effect all this would have on businesses nationwide, but that's a whole different story.... I'm not sure how high my tin foil hat goes when it comes to a widespread 'seizure' for folks who are owners, but these are some thoughts I've been pondering since the topic is high on the minds of 2A people accross the country. Just throwing some thoughts out there- Maybe I'm totally off base.

[quote name='scoutfsu' timestamp='1353970435' post='850989'] I'm talking about people thinking it's ok to let a thief be a thief because it's not on their property or it's a corporations property. The corporation doesn't think its worth the risk because the legal system has been so corrupted that anyone and everyone can be sued over nothing. If they wouldn't face frivolous lawsuits, then maybe they would be a bit more stringent about keeping their rightful goods in their store and not watching them walkout. Stealing pennies? Those pennies add up and they are someone's pennies.[/quote] Fair enough - I actually brought that up - both avoiding lawsuits and the relative lack of value - both are obviously (some of) the reasons WM (in this case) doesn't pursue more aggressive policies. But the fact remains this guy knew his employer's policies, chose to ignore them and will likely pay the price with his job. And quite possibly a conviction, as well. Two wrongs don't make a right, no matter how principled one wishes to be. [quote]Rambo wannabe? Police reject private security? renta-a-cop? cop wannabe? Sounds like a lot of people here are carrying baggage. [/quote] LOL, no, in this case it's simply obvious this guy rejected EVERYTHING that he was instructed. Maybe you see him as a 'man if strict morals' (said with a very serious face), but the reality is he screwed up, too - got too caught up in the moment and possibly ended up killing a guy in the process. Maybe vigilante justice is your thing, I dunno. It's funny (and somewhat telling) how people are careful to 'wait for more details' before jumping all over the guard's case while seemingly rejoicing in the death of a man who never got to stand trial... [quote]You talk about risk/reward? Here's one for you - [b]if you risk breaking the law, you risk consequences[/b]. Also under the "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" doctrine. This thief's death is [b]directly [/b]attributable to [b][i]his [/i][/b]decision to break the law. If he did not decide it was ok to steal merchandise, he would still be alive. He decided he was above the law and things spun up from there.[/quote] OK, so everything IS black-and-what to you - every crime punishable by death, since this person made the choice to (potentially) steal this stuff in the first place? It would be one thing of the guy kicked in your front door to steal stuff when you were at home, but this hothead who couldn't control himself also made a choice. Difference is his choice wasn't simple theft, it ended up in someone's death. [quote]Hoping that the thief's family sues Walmart for millions . I hope Walmart sues them for the thief's bad decision. He is the one that kicked this whole thing off. Everything that happened is a direct result of the decision he made.[/quote] Not me. [quote]People think it is ok to stand there and watch a criminal flaunt the law. Remember that when someone decides to come into your house or place of business and walk out with your stuff. [/quote] And you don't think this sounds like a wannabe cop? I don't WANT to be a cop, or I'd be one. If I see someone stealing a DVD player from WM, I'm going to be a good witness - maybe that's not 'principled' enough for you (again, said with very serious face), but my job isn't law enforcement. If someone were being hurt, that's a different story, but that's not the case here. And coming into my home or place of business? Again, different story. But I wouldn't expect a random passing WM employee to attack a guy for walking off with my wheelbarrow, either. Look, I find crime (including theft) as distasteful as anyone else here - I guarantee that. But I'm not going to risk my life, or someone else's, over some stupid possession. You want to? Be my guest, but to act as if you're on some sort of moral high ground because you support a guy who chose to attack someone he was told not to, likely resulting in that guy's death, is a bit silly.

[quote name='MilitiaMan' timestamp='1353963371' post='850940'] I'd like to see the employees and wannabe cop involved fired and prosecuted. Then hopefully the family of the victim sues and is awarded millions. Too much of this "power trip" crap going on in todays LE (legit or not). [/quote] Thats what needs to happen, the THIEF's family needs to be awarded money for something that idiot did wrong. I can't stand a thief, $2 or $2k it doesn't matter a thief is a thief. I don't think the security guy shoulda killed him, and I'm sure it was an accident by an untrained person, but in the end this whole thing wouldn't have happened, had that idiot not stolen something that wasn't his. Like I said in my first post. You play stupid games, you win stupid prizes. He stole something, and ended up dead. Saves me money from having to feed, clothe, and house his sorry ass. Good riddance.

[quote name='DaveS' timestamp='1353963374' post='850941'] A "piggy head" grenade would be crazy!!!! Habib and Ahkmed would line up to dive on it to save their buddies!!! Dave S [/quote] Just upped the awesomeness level. Outstanding!!

[quote name='crimsonaudio' timestamp='1353962193' post='850926'] LOL, the property owner doesn't think it's worth the risk over petty theft, why should you? [/quote] I'm callin' the Junk Sizzler when somebody steals my stuff

One of me friends showed me this clip. [url="http://www.break.com/index/man-raps-look-at-me-now-using-family-guy-voices-2390809?st=fb&ai=0&zi=0&ds=1"]http://www.break.com/index/man-raps-look-at-me-now-using-family-guy-voices-2390809?st=fb&ai=0&zi=0&ds=1[/url]

That was great!

[quote name='Worriedman' timestamp='1353080595' post='846554'] He said that the fence issue was moot in his opinion as the TCA Code allowed a Citizen to enjoy the same protection with regard to using deadly force for personal protection in their vehicle as in their home.. [/quote] And that is the angle that should be taken. Screw 'parking lot' bills - simply recognize the interior of a person's car as being like the interior of a person's home. Off limits to searches by anyone but police with a proper warrant. Declare any other 'right to search' employee agreements, etc. to be null and void. Recognize that it is none of anyone else's business - including employers - what people keep in the confines of their [b]own[/b], [b]private[/b] property. It really shouldn't make a bit of difference where that private property is located at the time - in a driveway, at Walmart or in an employer's parking lot.

[img]http://i49.tinypic.com/ei095e.png[/img]

[quote name='Lumber_Jack' timestamp='1353956210' post='850871'] Making an assumption; I don't believe it was the guards intent to kill the guy. We don't know what aggression the thief showed. Best way to end a fight is to choke out the opponent. Death is always a possible outcome in any fight. I feel the store or its employees has a right to confront the thief. If a fight escalates, then it becomes more than just shoplifting. [/quote] Where's ChuckieT? He sizzled a thief's junk on the hot pavement. Best takedown yet!

[quote name='Dolomite_supafly' timestamp='1353952389' post='850836'] Never said this. Please quote where I said knife to the throat.[/quote] You are right, I embellished...you only said "holding a knife" although I'm not sure that "holding a knife" or "holding a knife to the throat" really changes the picture that much and the point, even less so.

It burned my eyes. haha

[img]http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/318929_4593184081975_631759479_n.jpg[/img]

So did anyone notice the crooked gun barrel on the gun the guard was holding? The guard on the wall at Woodbury. I got a good laugh out of that.

I think it's much ado about nothing as there simply aren't enough senators or congressmen of either party with the background to hold anyone accountable for anything. At the end of the day the the legislature, lead by the Republicans, will cave which is about the only thing they do consistently.

I figured.

Interesting statement of how things are today. The divisiveness has got to go away, somehow.

[quote name='DaveTN' timestamp='1353932168' post='850732'] No we won't. [img]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y111/TourGlide/Web%20Stuff/patriot.gif[/img] [/quote] Did you run out of tin foil again? You gotta work on those prepper skills

I just finished installing CM10 beta 2 on two Epic Touch phones. If you would like a write up on all the steps I'd be happy to send you something. Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

Play stupid games.... Maybe I'm just an ###hole, but looks like nothing but another dead thief to me. And we could use a lot more of those around here.

Just an opinion I've always thought TN Sportsman's License holder ought not have to pay to shoot at a TWRA range. Even though it's not expensive, it should be an added perk of the $140.

[quote name='Nashville Slim' timestamp='1353854708' post='850403'] On the other hand; If this range were a private business, it would be out of business in a matter of weeks. The "Customer" experience was pretty awful. [/quote] A few more facts... All the RSO's are volunteers, and get no compensation for the hours they work All the RSO's are shooters. Stone's River is the busiest range in the state, and gets lots of newbies, doing lots of stupid stuff. It is the best facility I've been to in the state I'm on my third annual membership there. If it was a private business, they could pay a staff, and maybe even open the 50 yard range. I almost always go on Fridays, and have had quite a bit of time to talk to some of the RSO's. That place gets insane on Saturdays and Sundays because of the large volume of shooters. With all that insanity, they manage to keep the place pretty safe.

[quote name='Volzfan' timestamp='1353303715' post='848045']I'll believe it when I see it! Heck go hire Franklin! Look what he's done with Vandy![/quote] Franklin will be on the secondary search list or sure. But you can bet Vol fans and alumni wouldn't be too pleased getting a Vandy coach. Regardless of his acumen, they wouldn't receive him well.

Would everyone please update their profile with guns and likes because I want to send my recipient something that I hope will be useful. I love this kind of thing and like to get as personal as possible with gifts and put some heart into it. Thanks for the cool Christmas.

Eh I dunno if I like the zombie ladder/knock over bus runners, just doesn't seem "zombie" like. Maybe they just seem too strong or fast, something.

[quote name='TrickyNicky' timestamp='1352528388' post='842973'] Or save up the $100 or so bucks and keep your crappiest gun. I mean seriously $100 for a good shooting gun! That's insane. What's even more insane is not owning one. [/quote] I'm beginning to have impure thoughts about these rifles. I passed by one the other day and I swear I heard it suggest going home with me to get better acquainted.

Question? Who cares?