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Dirtshooter

Gov. Bill Lee to proclaim Oct. 10 day of prayer & fasting

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7 hours ago, btq96r said:

Thomas Jefferson is notably absent from that list...his views have the right of it, IMO.

Obviously you are as entitled to your opinion as you are not to participate in a completely voluntary day of prayer and fasting.

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12 minutes ago, Wdodd said:

 

Gov. Lee ..... apparently “let no good deed go unpunished” is factual.

Sadly true.

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Im getting ready for 25 hours of praying and fasting tonight.  Best wishes to everyone on their day of prayer and fasting.  God Bless you all (or whatever Higher Power you believe in) and God bless our Founding Fathers.

Edited by 4Freedom
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Why do we need elected officials to tell us (or suggest perhaps in this case) when it’s time to pray and fast?  

That is not what they are elected for.

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1 hour ago, Garufa said:

Why do we need elected officials to tell us (or suggest perhaps in this case) when it’s time to pray and fast?  

That is not what they are elected for.

Apparently they are elected to investigate one another.:shrug:

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12 hours ago, gregintenn said:

Apparently they are elected to investigate one another.:shrug:

Apparently they are elected to become multi-millionaires by doing absolutely NO WORK!!

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20 hours ago, gregintenn said:

Apparently they are elected to investigate one another.:shrug:

Only if they don't agree with who We the People elected.

 

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10 hours ago, Dirtshooter said:

Apparently they are elected to become multi-millionaires by doing absolutely NO WORK!!

😡   Please don't get me started.......

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Wasn't separation of church and state as much about keeping the church out of government as it was keeping the government out of the church business?  


Regardless, thats not whats important here.   I don't understand how its okay to complain that the government overspends on chair or toilet seats or whatever, but complaining that wasted time on a meaningless proclamation gets you chastised like you are the enemy.   I appreciate a feel good gesture just as much as the next guy.  But if given the opportunity, I'd rather spend my money on something else.  

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3 hours ago, Capbyrd said:

Wasn't separation of church and state as much about keeping the church out of government as it was keeping the government out of the church business? 

No.

3 hours ago, Capbyrd said:

Regardless, thats not whats important here.  

Good.

3 hours ago, Capbyrd said:

 I don't understand how its okay to complain that the government overspends on chair or toilet seats or whatever, but complaining that wasted time on a meaningless proclamation gets you chastised like you are the enemy.   I appreciate a feel good gesture just as much as the next guy.  But if given the opportunity, I'd rather spend my money on something else.  

Well heck then; let me try to explain, maybe others will jump in and help. This country was founded on Christian morals and beliefs. that’s not opinion; that’s fact. However, that is something very different than legislating or giving preference to any religion. There is nothing in our history or our Constitution that bans anything based on religion. Separation of Church and State has to do with oversight and procedures. It doesn’t mean that the Federal government can’t recognize God, the Bible, or institute religious holidays.

The same amendment that keeps religion from being forced on people by the government, also allows people to openly chastise others when they make statements about religion they don’t like. To you it’s a “feel good” gesture. To many others it’s something far more than that; and well worth the cost.

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29 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

Well heck then; let me try to explain, maybe others will jump in and help. This country was founded on Christian morals and beliefs. that’s not opinion; that’s fact. However, that is something very different than legislating or giving preference to any religion. There is nothing in our history or our Constitution that bans anything based on religion. Separation of Church and State has to do with oversight and procedures. It doesn’t mean that the Federal government can’t recognize God, the Bible, or institute religious holidays.

The same amendment that keeps religion from being forced on people by the government, also allows people to openly chastise others when they make statements about religion they don’t like. To you it’s a “feel good” gesture. To many others it’s something far more than that; and well worth the cost.

 

You used a whole lot of words to not explain anything relevant to my post.   The gesture, and it is only a gesture, was a net negative on the budget.   Therefore, it cost me, as a tax paying citizen of TN money.  Money that would be better spent fifty other ways.   It is governmental waste, and should be chastised as such. 

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20 hours ago, Capbyrd said:

 

You used a whole lot of words to not explain anything relevant to my post.   The gesture, and it is only a gesture, was a net negative on the budget.   Therefore, it cost me, as a tax paying citizen of TN money.  Money that would be better spent fifty other ways.   It is governmental waste, and should be chastised as such. 

How much did it cost? Figure up your part of it and I'll personally reimburse you.:shrug:

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3 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

How much did it cost? Figure up your part of it and I'll personally reimburse you.:shrug:

You going to personally reimburse me for everything they do that wastes money?   The point isn't the pennies it cost me for this one thing.  Its all of the things.  If you are okay with this, it wasn't a waste of money for you, you don't get to ever complain that they waste money.   Because whatever they were doing wasn't a waste to someone else, therefore it wasn't a waste, period.  

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I'm personally more comfortable with the separation of church and state....

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Can someone show me where the Constitution says "seperation of church and state"? I can only find, "congress shall make no law".

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1 hour ago, Photoguy67 said:

Can someone show me where the Constitution says "seperation of church and state"? I can only find, "congress shall make no law".

A person would have to research where that term came from and what it means. It does not mean that religion can’t be involved in our government; because it is. The death penalty, abortion, war, the treatment of prisoners, politicians lying, morality, and the list goes on and on of areas where religion is either involved in our government or should be.

The problem comes from those who fear religion. If our government acknowledges the presence of a higher being (Which it does), then they have a problem; they think “We the People” and our government must think less of them because they do not believe. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Any Christian will try to help them. What they do not understand is that we will not succumb to their fears and ban any talk of religion or outlaw any religious acts. Even when they use a term they really don’t understand because they don’t know the history of it.

However, arguing religion on a gun form is like the caliber wars. No matter how much evidence you present there will still be those lost souls that insist on using 9mm. But we will still shoot with them. Just because they aren’t big enough to handle the more powerful calibers, or they have to buy what their wives or girlfriends want; we still respect them, we just feel sorry for them. :)

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1 hour ago, DaveTN said:

However, arguing religion on a gun form is like the caliber wars. No matter how much evidence you present there will still be those lost souls that insist on using 9mm.

People who who argue that modern 9mm is ballistically inferior to other modern handgun service calibers are the Flat Earthers of the gun world.

 

barack obama mic drop GIF

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As an atheist, I could not give a crap if they want to have a day of prayer.   I do have an issue with spending tax payer funds to promote it, but I also have an issue with spending tax payer dollars on a lot of things, the vast majority which have nothing to do with religion.  There are extremists on both sides of the discussion who want to shout louder than the other.  Nothing new and nothing different than any other issue out there today.  What I do get annoyed about is when those whom emphatically defend this will lose their mind if a group of Muslims want to have a prayer group at a school or in any other government location.  It's the hypocrisy that is so ironic.

Don't take this as defending Muslims either, I don't believe deep down they care or want to assimilate into our country, but that is another matter.  People should be free to believe what they believe.  Just don't tell me what I should believe.  I don't believe Gov. Lee is trying to do that, but as the highest representative in the State, it can easily come across that way.

Edited by Hozzie
Grammar
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7 minutes ago, Hozzie said:

People should be free to believe what they believe.  Just don't tell me what I should believe.  I don't believe Gov. Lee is trying to do that, but as the highest representative in the State, it can easily come across that way.

We have a winner!

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9 hours ago, Photoguy67 said:

Can someone show me where the Constitution says "seperation of church and state"? I can only find, "congress shall make no law".

It’s right above the part that says you are allowed to own a musket.

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Interesting that while we discuss our governor proclaiming a day of prayer & fasting; Beto threatens tax-exempt status of churches if they don't support same-sex marriage. What is the term the Dems have been repeating constantly this last week? Oh yea, “Quid Pro Quo”.

Quote

 

Democratic presidential hopeful Beto O'Rourke says he'd strip churches of tax-exempt status if they don't support same-sex marriage.

When the former Texas congressman was asked if religious institutions -- "colleges, churches, charities" -- should be stripped of tax-exempt status Thursday night by CNN anchor Don Lemon during the LGBTQ town hall, he immediately responded, "Yes."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/beto-church-of-tax-exempt-status-gay-marriage

 

 

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18 hours ago, gregintenn said:

It’s right above the part that says you are allowed to own a musket.

No it's not.  That's not what the First Amendment says at all.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

 

Did Governor Lee use executive power to pass a law establishing a religion for Tennessee?  Did he pass a law prohibiting the free exercise of religion?

Go ahead and tell me that an invitation to prayer is somehow a law, and that law established Christianity as the official state religion, or that the invitation to prayer prohibited freedom from exercising whatever religions the people of Tennessee generally exercise, if they exercise one at all.

C'mon... stretch hard for it.  Because stretching hard for it is the only way you're going to somehow make a connection between the Governor's proclamation and the intent of the First Amendment, and even then you're not going to actually make contact.  Your windage is going to be off.  Maybe your elevation.  It's going to be a warm breeze whistling past in the distance.

If the founding fathers meant anything other than what they wrote, they'd have written something other than what they did.  Words mean things.  Simple language is meant to be interpreted simply.  All attempts to draw hidden meanings or implications from the Constitution or the Amendments are scams.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, TGO David said:

No it's not.  That's not what the First Amendment says at all.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

 

Did Governor Lee use executive power to pass a law establishing a religion for Tennessee?  Did he pass a law prohibiting the free exercise of religion?

Go ahead and tell me that an invitation to prayer is somehow a law, and that law established Christianity as the official state religion, or that the invitation to prayer prohibited freedom from exercising whatever religions the people of Tennessee generally exercise, if they exercise one at all.

C'mon... stretch hard for it.  Because stretching hard for it is the only way you're going to somehow make a connection between the Governor's proclamation and the intent of the First Amendment, and even then you're not going to actually make contact.  Your windage is going to be off.  Maybe your elevation.  It's going to be a warm breeze whistling past in the distance.

If the founding fathers meant anything other than what they wrote, they'd have written something other than what they did.  Words mean things.  Simple language is meant to be interpreted simply.  All attempts to draw hidden meanings or implications from the Constitution or the Amendments are scams.

 

 

 

 

Perhaps I didn’t make myself clear. I’m on your team my friend. I was simply mocking folks who claim the constitution says things it clearly does not say.

They pulled the tired old quote “separation of church and state” from a letter penned by Thomas Jefferson if I remember correctly. Nowhere in the constitution or the amendments will you find it. I know because I looked more than once.

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