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I would like it to be known that many years ago I swore an oath to protect this country against ALL enemies foreign and domestic. There are millions more like me. Wanting to destroy OUR country because you didn't get your way in a election is STUPID! Don't bite off more than you can chew!

[quote name='cardcutter' timestamp='1352747674' post='844373'] My point is simply that it would send a message if 26x25000 (650000) people showed their dissatisfaction. [/quote] Last Tuesday 59 MILLION people got off their azz and went to a polling place to show their dissatisfaction. They showed ID and signed their real names with their real addresses. It made no difference. What makes you think 650K people doing nothing more than clicking on a web link would send any kind of a message or that anyone would care? There isn’t going to be any secession by any state. Our government is not going to be overthrown by any radical forces because it is protected by Patriots. The only way you are going to change our government is at the polling place. Many of the middle class is too busy or too indifferent to vote. The poor and those living off the government are voting and they are voting for bigger monthly checks and free healthcare. Internet petitions are a joke.

Screw it, I'm posting A lot of people that took that same oath believe the current regime to be a domestic threat. Just letting you know that there's people, including vets, that would push that issue both ways. I'm recently discharged, and I can tell you a lot of newer vets, as well as active duty, won't obey unlawful orders from a corrupt Socialist Regime. [quote name='DaveTN' timestamp='1352830771' post='844883'] Yep and they won't be dead martyrs or Patriots; they will just be dead terrorists. I took the oath, and if you want to change my country you will do it at the polling place because if you try it by force you will lose. [/quote] Funny thing is they called Washington and all the other founding fathers terrorist, traitors and worse. Remember history is written by the victor of the battle.

Republicans and conservatives tend to be law abiding while liberals do not have a problem cheating. We have seen it time and time again. Yes both sides cheat but the ratio is not 1 to 1. Dolomite

This topic gets my dander up so give me a minute to run to the basement and collect my soap box podium... The Federal government has no business in our collective hive schools, much less dictating what is to be taught, how to teach it, standardize it and fund it. In far too many cases, our schools have become nothing more than day care centers, distractions and obstacles to children who want to learn and are held back. If you know your history, you're aware children were much better educated in the three "R's" prior to the Fed's involvement. Does our "Bill of Rights" include a right to an education, or a free Bachelor's degree paid for by tax payers for convicted prison felons? How's this mess all working out? Too much class room time is wasted on health education (sex education), gay life style and diseases, etc., that's the parents responsibility. If you're a parent, take a look at your child's books and study material selected and approved for them by a national education agency. They're being indoctrinated and brain washed into liberalism, not free thinking. Our Colleges and Universities are even worse and they're paying big bucks to get brain dead? First and foremost, it's the parents responsibility to teach their children "everything". Right from wrong, good from evil, math, reading, history, the birds and bee's, ethics, political science, health, physical fitness, etc. It's no one else's responsibility, period. Many parents don't have the knowledge, skills and abilities to provide a quality education in all aspects of learning for their children, so... The COMMUNITY gets together and determines how to best share knowledge / resources and transfer it to their children in the form of doing it themselves, as in hiring a qualified dedicated teacher(s). And supporting those services provided from the community in which they live. Given the choice, how many communities would support and fund alternative schools for disruptive children with learning and/or behavior issues? I owe my children a roof over their head, cloths on their backs, food everyday, and a honest and accurate education on what I can afford, no one else's children. O.K., just returned my soap box to the basement guys

[quote name='The Dude' timestamp='1352844849' post='845043'] Seems to me that most of the people against this are the first ones to say they love freedom, but look down upon, and critcize those actually making an attempt to get the focus of the government back where it needs to be. The interests of the poeple. Its not about being a sore loser in the elections like some people claim. If thats the case, then why isnt the petition for an election re-count skyrocketing with signers? Its about being dragged along into a sea of debt, having liberties stripped and destroying our rights that so many have fought and died for, again and again. For those of you who think voting will make it better, tell that to the several million voters who's vote didnt count once Obama had already won with several states left to get counted. It happens every election time and time again. The 2 party system is a joke at best, and niether ever give a damn about you or me, and they never will. Is it that hard to see that our current system is way out of control? [/quote] Yah, none of us who think this pointless / useless petition is a silly exercise are for any sort of reform, we're all just Obama-loving tax and spend communists. </sarcasm> Maybe some people see this for what it is - a waste of energy. Nothing, zero, nada is going to come from this and the timing of this - directly after the election with no legislation happening which would cause the uproar - makes it look like a bunch of butt-hurt repubs who can't get over the fact they lost. Believe it or not, there are actually effective ways of communicating with government officials beyond preposterous requests that will yield something other than an eye roll.

As much as I admire the Wounded Warrior Project, I find this disturbing. Additionally, as a now retired warrior, I really dislike the mindset that we're all wounded in some fashion or other, and therefore victims. That mindset only makes it more difficult for Veterans to re-integrate in civil society, and can tend to create an attitude boundary that makes it hard for Veterans to become employed. Overcoming the difficulties of war does not create a lesser person, it creates a greater, a larger, a more capable person. Great enough and large enough and capable enough to frighten some of the weaker men who have advantaged themselves in the Veterans' absence. Re-read the Odyssey. The story is as fresh as today.

I am torn on this issue. I am one of a few people who truely believe that we are all equal. Equality is based on equal opportunity. What one does with said opportunity is what makes the difference. Race has no dog in this fight...

I didn't vote for the bastard. For all who did - you own this s___! I don't have any representation in Washington or Nashville. I'm beginning to wonder if voting can change anything -- it's starting to look like a rigged game to me. You choose door "A" or door "B", but they both go to the same room.

I wouldn't think you would have an eye relief problem, but in case you do, Weaver makes offset mounts to accomoday short scopes, incorrect eye relief, etc. As for the torque, just turn the screws good and tight without trying to twist the heads off. I've mounted close to 100 scopes, and never used a torque driver, and never had any problems. Chill out...you are way overthinking this. Let us know how the Ruger shoots. Oh yeah, you'll probably need high rings for that monster scope.

If I was a Romney voter in one of those precincts, I guarantee I would be on the news because of all the noise I'd be making. There HAS to be some Romney votes in there. This reeks of criminal voter fraud. Where is the outcry ? If our elections can be openly stolen without reprimand then our freedom is already gone.

Yes, but in all my years in LE I have yet to see one person be forced to plead guilty. The judge asks the defendent if he agrees to the plea and when the person says "yes" they become convicted of domestic abuse. If you don't want to plea then go to trial, that way you can explain your side of the story and let the jury make the decision. Heck, in a lot of cases they will let the abuser plea down to a lesser charge if it is their first time. A bruise is all it takes IMHO. If you are manhandling a women enough to leave a bruise then you are a POS and should loose [u]everything[/u]. Not just your gun rights. And most of those who[u] are [/u]abusers tned to be whiny asses and will cry anytime they think they are being abused. If you lay hands on a women during an argument in order to comtrol her or win the argument you are a POS. Dolomite

I like my toe shoes.

Where were all you guys who are so pissed about losing your rights when the Patriot Act was enacted (or the three further authorizations)? I'm no Obama-apologist, but it strikes me as odd that none of this 'liberty or death' talk was heard when Bush was in office.

Liberals believe that the end justifies the means. They have proven this time and time again. So why would we think they would not try to keep Obama in office through nefarious methods?

[quote name='LINKS2K' timestamp='1352829006' post='844866'] I would like it to be known that many years ago I swore an oath to protect this country against ALL enemies foreign and domestic. There are millions more like me. Wanting to destroy OUR country because you didn't get your way in a election is STUPID! Don't bite off more than you can chew! [/quote] Yep and they won't be dead martyrs or Patriots; they will just be dead terrorists. I took the oath, and if you want to change my country you will do it at the polling place because if you try it by force you will lose.

[quote name='Chucktshoes' timestamp='1352823477' post='844834'] Not quite true. If you don't parse out the percentages of recipients in relation to percentage of population and only look at the raw numbers, there are more whites on welfare. In fact the single largest user of TANF is the single white mother. Believe it or not, there are still more of us crackers in this country than anyone else.[/quote] Yes, but the perception is different. I was just reading a story about widespread attacks against middle eastern immigrants in Greece as retaliation for their bankrupt ass gov. The immigrants aren't the ones sucking the Greek tit dry; it's the entitled Greeks that have had their hands out all along. Certainly the perception is the same here in regard to minorities. I'm from the land of trailer parks and Florida. I know just how worthless and teet sucking white people can be.

[quote name='cardcutter' timestamp='1352821702' post='844826'] I think there will also be a heavy racial element to it as well. Lets face it there are a lot more minorities on the dole than whites. Besides the opposition to Obama will be seen by the blacks as racist.[/quote] Not quite true. If you don't parse out the percentages of recipients in relation to percentage of population and only look at the raw numbers, there are more whites on welfare. In fact the single largest user of TANF is the single white mother. Believe it or not, there are still more of us crackers in this country than anyone else.

I guess I missed the notice that you lose Fourth amendment protections when you enter a National Park. Two simple phrases are all you need to say: 1) I do not consent to a search. 2) Have a nice day, officer.

As much as I hate what the country is becoming we are far from being a third world ####hole. And if we did secede the state would become a third world ####hole in a matter of days. The federal government would not invade us or try to beat us into submission. They would lock our border down and not allow anything in or out. Then they would just starve us into submission and then we would be begging to go back to the way it was before. And guess what, we will be way worse off that what we are now. We cannot support our own population without the help of the other states and if we secede the feds will not allow interstate commerce with us any more. And if you think you will be going to work as usual it will be kind of hard to do that without any gas because it will no longer be imported. Your job won't matter anyway because companies here will go out of business when they cannot sell their items out of state or get supplies in from out of state. We would ALL loose our jobs because no other state still under federal control would be allowed to do business with us. Look at all the food that is imported into the state from other states as well as other countries. Those food items will be gone in days and all food normally imported will stop at the border. So all of you wanting to secede are willing to risk your own family starving? Then there is the medicine that will stop at the border. How many here are diabetic or have loved ones that are? They will be dead in months if they stocked up. But realistically they would probably starve before then because if they are not stockpiling medicine they do not have food stockpiled. This goes right along with those who are planning to bug out to the hills. They, and those wanting to secede, have not thought out the long term ramifications of it. I do not want to secede for a few reasons. First is everything I mentioned above. But also if we secede we no longer have a voice and we will have zero chance of effecting change in the federal government. If you want things to change write letters, make calls and send emails to your representative. How many here did that before the election or any time they disagree with something their representative does? I know I have wrote trying to influence their decisions. It is not too late. We will have the most important elections in the next few years. If we loose the majority in congress, which we probably will unless something is done, the democrats will forever change this nation. I said it before and I will say it again. Be careful what you wish for, you might actually get it. If you are truly patriotic to this country you should not be wanting to leave it but fight for it. Dolomite

[quote name='TNcitizen22' timestamp='1352779738' post='844672'] Perhaps I am out of touch, or just unwilling to accept the 'truth'. I think anyone who genuinely believes this half-assed attempt at a succession is a good idea is freaking out of their mind. You have no idea the kind of hell that would be brought upon us (read: YOU) in a matter of days. It would not be fun, revolutionary, or whatever idealistic viewpoint you have on it. Anyone who signs this has never set foot into a third world country, and you should if you are foolish enough to want this. If you did, you wouldn't dream of such a stupid idea. [/quote] This country needs a revolution. And I guess I'm the idiot thats been in a third world country and in a combat zone and still signed. And as someone who has served for this country, and sees that it is coming to a crossroad. I'd rather die for a state I believed in than live in a country I am quickly beginning to not believe in. Don't take this the wrong way, I know how blessed this country has been, but I am disgusted with where we are headed and we are headed there quickly.

how are you crossing the Ohio River? You need to get busy with lawn mower parts and old computers

Without a family to worry about I'd say go for the Butch Cassidy/Sundance Kid ending. That being said, at this point you either have enough knowledge of the outdoors to hide out and survive in the forests, or you starve trying.

It's being reported on several forums that Tom Gresham tweeted... [quote]Wounded Warriors Project just reconfirmed they don't do anything with media or companies involved with firearms. Don't need our $, I guess[/quote] In a Facebook, Thunder Ranch said... [quote]Official: Thunder Ranch will no longer be doing any fundraising for Wounded Warrior. This due to the main reason is they will do not want support from the guns period because guns are used by our military to kill themselves. What do they save themselves with? Nerf guns? Also the fact that very little of our money is a ctually getting to the families that need them. We will find charities in the coming months to help us all give but for now all money raised with our current DVD sale will go to our Seal team family... the Reece Petersen Trust fund. Thank you as always for your support. We will continue to do the best job we can to put as much money as we can to helping our military. Clint and Heidi[/quote] I find this pretty disgusting...they can associate or not associate with anyone they wish but they seem to want the firearm's community's money but don't want to associate with them openly. If this is true, and I've found nothing so far to say it isn't, that seems pretty damn cowardly and two-faced to me. I have supported the Wounded Warrior Project with donations in the past but I won't be doing so in the future; there are plenty of other organizations supporting our veterans that need our help and support and aren't afraid of being associated with the firearms community. If anyone has any other info about this, pleas post. Thanks!

There's always some voter fraud in an election, but seldom are their allegations of industrial-strength "Chicago Style" voter fraud corruption on such a massive scale: **************************************************************************** [size=5][size=6][b]Was the 2012 Election Stolen?[/b] [size=5][b]By[/b] [url="http://www.americanthinker.com/selwyn_duke/"][b]Selwyn Duke[/b][/url][/size][/size] [font=times new roman,times]As the 2012 election approached, conservative enthusiasm grew. Mitt Romney was drawing huge crowds while Barack Obama spoke in half-filled stadiums. All the passion lay on the right while the left was discouraged with a promised messiah who proved merely a politician. And the prediction was that, in contrast to 2008, Republican turnout would dwarf the tuned-out and carry the day. Hence the shock November 6 eve. How could Romney lose, especially by such a wide electoral margin?[/font] [font=times new roman,times]Maybe he didn't[/font] [font=times new roman,times]At least not legitimately.[/font] [font=times new roman,times]When I [/font][url="http://selwynduke.typepad.com/selwyndukecom/2012/10/will-vote-fraud-win-the-election-for-obama.html"][font=times new roman,times]predicted Obama's re-election[/font][/url][font=times new roman,times], I stated that, despite our country's inexorable leftist slide, Romney would still win on Election Day were it not for vote fraud. I explained that the Democrats could steal more than enough votes in crucial swing states to turn the election. And I still believe what I did then: electoral criminality put Obama over the top.[/font] [font=times new roman,times]At the time, we heard stories about [/font][url="http://myfox8.com/2012/10/23/guilford-county-voters-say-they-voted-for-the-wrong-candidate/"][font=times new roman,times]electronic-machine "glitches"[/font][/url][font=times new roman,times] switching Romney votes to Obama ones. And Patrick Moran, son of Congressman Jim Moran (D-VA), was [/font][url="http://www.wnd.com/2012/10/video-captures-dem-campaign-chief-plotting-vote-fraud/"][font=times new roman,times]caught on tape[/font][/url][font=times new roman,times] facilitating vote fraud while Bridgeport, CT mayor Bill Finch essentially [/font][url="http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/connecticut-dem-jokes-about-corruption_654445.html"][font=times new roman,times]promised[/font][/url][font=times new roman,times] to commit same for a political partner in crime. [/font] [font=times new roman,times]Since then, the indications of electoral criminality have been overwhelming. First there are the anecdotes, such as the court-appointed Republican poll watchers illegally expelled from 13 Philadelphia polling places in wards that, in most cases, went 99 percent for Obama; the poll observers who noted what they considered vote fraud but were powerless to stop; and the Democrats who actually [/font][url="http://www.examiner.com/article/fraud-some-told-they-already-voted-others-brag-about-voting-multiple-times"][font=times new roman,times]bragged about[/font][/url][font=times new roman,times] voting more than once.[/font] [font=times new roman,times]Then there are the statistics, such as [/font][url="http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/20121112_In_59_Philadelphia_voting_wards__Mitt_Romney_got_zero_votes.html"][font=times new roman,times]this[/font][/url][font=times new roman,times] staggering fact: in 59 Philadelphia districts, Romney failed to get [i]even one vote[/i]. Final Obama-Romney tally: 19,605 to 0.[/font] [font=times new roman,times]Huh? Not even one person voted GOP accidentally? I mean, there even was a Washington, D.C. councilman who inadvertently voted to approve faux marriage, [/font][url="http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Confused-Barry-Asks-for-Same-Sex-Marriage-Vote-Back.html"][font=times new roman,times]saying[/font][/url][font=times new roman,times] that he didn't know what he was voting for (that would be Marion Barry).[/font] [font=times new roman,times]Next, consider [/font][url="http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2012/09/16/voter-rolls-in-ohio-are-bloated-experts-say.html"][font=times new roman,times]this report[/font][/url][font=times new roman,times] from [i]The Columbus Dispatch[/i]: [/font][/size] [indent=1] [size=5][font=times new roman,times]More than one out of every five registered Ohio voters is probably ineligible to vote.[/font][/size][/indent] [indent=1] [size=5][font=times new roman,times]In two counties, the number of registered voters actually exceeds the voting-age population: Northwestern Ohio's Wood County shows 109 registered voters for every 100 eligible, while in Lawrence County along the Ohio River it's a mere 104 registered per 100 eligible.[/font] [font=times new roman,times]Another 31 counties show registrations at more than 90 percent of those eligible, a rate regarded as unrealistic by most voting experts. The national average is a little more than 70 percent.[/font] [font=times new roman,times][...]Of the Buckeye State's 7.8 million registered voters, nearly 1.6 million are regarded as "inactive."[/font][/size][/indent] [size=5][font=times new roman,times]Understand the significance. Years ago I was [/font][url="http://www.americanthinker.com/2005/08/democrats_and_deep_vote_fraud.html"][font=times new roman,times]contacted[/font][/url][font=times new roman,times] by a Washington, D.C. community leader (who'll remain anonymous) who told me that he had "done some computer work for several candidates over the years in DC" and had conducted his own study of urban vote fraud. He said that inner cities' great transiency ensures that any given large metropolis will have a great number of voters who no longer live in their precinct of registration. These areas also have Democrat operatives known by the get-out-the-vote term "block captains" or "apartment captains," people who know the lay of the land and thus what registered voters have left town. So all they need do then is vote for these people or have others do so. This is very easy, too, with few voter-ID laws. And this is why Democrats oppose these laws so vehemently.[/font] [font=times new roman,times]Now consider that Obama "won" Ohio by 100,000 votes. This means that to flip the state, Democrat surrogates had to illegally "activate" only [i]6.25 percent[/i] of its 1.6 million inactive voters.[/font][/size] [size=5][font=times new roman,times]Note also that Ohio secretary of state Jon Husted did ask Eric Holder's DOJ for help negotiating conflicting federal laws pertaining to the purging ineligible voters from the rolls. The DOJ's ultimate response? "No comment."[/font] [font=times new roman,times]Yet a voter doesn't even have to be inactive, just disengaged. For example, when the aforementioned Patrick Moran offered advice on surrogate voting, he told an undercover reporter to masquerade as a pollster and call a targeted individual to make sure he wasn't planning to vote. And this is nothing new. In fact, liberal leg-thriller Chris Matthews himself [/font][url="http://spectator.org/blog/2012/06/27/did-chris-matthews-participate"][font=times new roman,times]admitted[/font][/url][font=times new roman,times] that it has been going on for years.[/font] [font=times new roman,times]Then there is the case of the missing military ballots. As Rachel Alexander at [i]Town Hall [/i][/font][url="http://townhall.com/columnists/rachelalexander/2012/11/11/obama_likely_won_reelection_through_election_fraud/page/2"][font=times new roman,times]reported[/font][/url][font=times new roman,times]:[/font][/size] [indent=1] [size=5][font=times new roman,times]The conservative-leaning military vote has [/font][url="http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/10/01/military-ballot-requests-down-in-key-battleground-states/"][font=times new roman,times]decreased[/font][/url][font=times new roman,times] drastically since 2010 due to the so-called Military Voter Protection Act that was enacted into law the year before. It has made it so difficult for overseas military personnel to obtain absentee ballots that in Virginia and Ohio there has been a 70% decrease in requests for ballots since 2008. In Virginia, almost 30,000 fewer overseas military voters requested ballots than in 2008. In Ohio, more than 20,000 fewer overseas military voters requested ballots. This is significant considering Obama won in both states by a little over 100,000 votes.[/font][/size][/indent] [size=5][font=times new roman,times]Frankly, it is inconceivable that military interest in voting could've dropped so drastically given conservatives' passion this election season. The damning conclusion? The Obama machine wants our soldiers to shed blood while it sheds their votes.[/font] [font=times new roman,times]Striking as all this is, however, it's likely just a partial picture. As with all crime, it's a given that the discovered vote fraudsters represent only a tiny percentage of the total. And what about vote-fraud methods we haven't even thought of yet? Remember, the Democrats have been honing this act for many, many years.[/font] [font=times new roman,times]And vote fraud is Democrat domain. Liberals are the situational-values set, people who for years insisted that right and wrong is relative and that if it feels good, do it. And what feels good to them at election time is stealing votes to win - and they do it. They relish it, in fact. Like the liberal who addressed Bill Clinton's it-depends-on-what-is-is infidelity and adamantly told me, "He did the [i]right[/i] thing," leftists love the con. To pull a fast one like private eye Jim Rockford, fool everyone, and get away with it is like winning the Nobel Prize in Prevarication in their world. Thus, it's assured that there's no small number of liberals who are currently brimming with pride at having negated the votes of countless knuckle-dragging conservatives. [/font] [font=times new roman,times]Having said this, we can't be sure about the exact magnitude of the vote fraud. But my judgment is this:[/font] [font=times new roman,times]The election was likely stolen. [/font] [font=times new roman,times]And whatever Barack Obama is presently, I don't believe he will be a legitimate president come January 20.[/font] [font=times new roman,times]This is why Congressman Allen West was right not to concede his Florida race. And, frankly, if Romney believes that the election may have been stolen nationally, he should withdraw his concession.[/font] [font=times new roman,times]Radical?[/font] [font=times new roman,times]Unprecedented?[/font] [font=times new roman,times]Yes, but so is vote fraud on the scale perpetrated by Obama's minions. And people needn't fear creating a national crisis - [i]we are already in a national crisis[/i]. The only question is whether good Americans will stand and be counted or allow 2012 to mark our official descent into banana-republic status.[/font] Read more: [url="http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/11/was_the_2012_election_stolen.html#ixzz2C7ai2lA3"]http://www.americant...l#ixzz2C7ai2lA3[/url][/size]

Here is a hint....the case holders that fit in your press also fit in the puller...just like the "universal" one that comes with it. Saves time if you have a couple to pull.

All they lack is someone playing the role of deepthroat.

I have the same scope and as I recall the mounts are considered high. I went to Bass Pro with the scope details. They looked it up and handed me the mount and rings.

[quote name='JHC77' timestamp='1352833031' post='844904'] .... Being an 870, would it be better just to order an 18" barrel and let it be or just pickup another shotgun? About $170 for the barrel ...[/quote] Mossberg makes 870 barrels too, and they're just fine, much cheaper than Remington ones. - OS

For what you'll pay for the Bushnell vs the value, save a bit more and get a Vortex Strike Fire or SPARC. They come with the mounts, 2x doubler and a life time warranty.

I sent a little note and the link to the Tennessee Fisher House folks to tell 'em we were talking about 'em. I was VERY surprised to actually get a note back: ************************************************************** Thank you for forwarding this conversation. We are very proud of the Fisher House Foundation being able to maintain A+ ratings with the American Institute of Philanthropy, and four star ratings with Charity Navigator. Before I donate to any charity, I check them out on one of these websites first. It is surprising how many well-known organizations do not receive high ratings because they spend so much money on marketing, TV advertisements, robot calls, and bulk mail. We do not do that. The president of the Fisher House Foundation makes a pretty high salary, but, when you take into account that he has to maintain a home in the Baltimore/Washington DC area, it takes a lot of money to do that. Otherwise, the National Foundation has a small staff, and those of us on the local Fisher House Boards are all volunteers. There will be two paid employees at our new Fisher House in Murfreesboro who will be paid by the VA. The local foundation depends upon pro bono legal assistance, accounting service, reduced and/or free printing of brochures, and word of mouth to spread the good word about the TN Fisher House, as well as newspapers, radio and TV public service announcements. Our expenses are extremely low with 98.3 Cents of every dollar donated going to the construction and furnishing of the house. We appreciate the good comments about Fisher House, and can hardly wait until our house is finished so that we can get our veterans' families into warm (or cool as the need may be), comfortable, safe and clean lodging with food to eat as well as other assistance. Our veterans and/or their families should not be sleeping in their cars in the hospital parking lots because they cannot afford a hotel room; and they should not be trying to live on peanut butter and crackers. This is a travesty which, with the help of fellow Tennesseans, will stop once this house is completed and operating. Again, we appreciate any donations to help us with this project. Andrea D. Lawrence, President Tennessee Fisher House Foundation, Inc. P. O. Box 774 Brentwood TN 37024-0774

[quote name='The Dude' timestamp='1352845656' post='845047'] How much more crappy legislation do you want? [/quote]None, but if you're going to claim this isn't a knee-jerk reaction to losing last week, you're going to have to come up with something. If it's not election butt-hurt and it's not legislation, then what is it? ETA: Y'all have fun with it, but unless / until you're willing to admit this is just a reaction to losing the election, most folks are just going to ignore it. If you really want change, you're going to have to be able to present something other than 'sore loser' as your reasoning. I'm out.

[quote name='LINKS2K' timestamp='1352840624' post='844987'] I not choosing sides. The actions that have been mentioned would be just as stupid if Obama and his crew were the ones threatening them. [/quote] Then you [i]are[/i] saying that Republicans/Conservatives/TEA Partyists are the ones making such claims and threats as you perceive it. I would like to see where that is occurring. Au contraire my friend, but it was, and still is, liberals and blacks making serious and [url="http://twitchy.com/2012/11/02/as-election-day-nears-obama-supporters-step-up-riot-threats/"]well documented[/url] threats of riots, assassinations and other mayhem if Romney were to win and 0bama were to lose. They [url="http://www.theblaze.com/stories/multiple-twitter-users-threaten-to-assassinate-mitt-romney-shoot-him-dead/"]publicly posted[/url] these on Twitter and Facebook and other social media. I see NO SUCH THREATS from Republicans/Conservatives/TEA Partyists, nor have any riots taken place, nor any other mayhem. If you are basing your sole argument on symbolic petitions of secession, your blowing in the wind. The so-called victorious party is the violent and divisive one. Your argument holds no water. [b] Thousands Of Shocking Threats Of Violence By Obama Supporters On The Eve Of The Election[/b] http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/thousands-of-shocking-threats-of-violence-by-obama-supporters-on-the-eve-of-the-election (article was originally on MensNewsDaily.com but has now been scrubbed from the web)

[quote name='crimsonaudio' timestamp='1352840578' post='844984'] Where were all you guys who are so pissed about losing your rights when the Patriot Act was enacted (or the three further authorizations)? I'm no Obama-apologist, but it strikes me as odd that none of this 'liberty or death' talk was heard when Bush was in office. [/quote] Yep! I have a problem with both republicans and democrats. When the government is out of line, call them on it regardless of party. Silence when your guy is in charge is part of the problem. I continue to hope that guys are just venting.

[quote name='QuietDan' timestamp='1352837167' post='844944'] I disagree. A year or so will tell. I'm thinking Obama unrestrained by re-election will tip his Dictator hand. He's already showing the signs, with his desire to go it alone, with his contempt for the Congress and the Senate, with his contempt for the Supreme Court, and with his long list of Executive Actions. And especially, with his influence over the ancient Mob, for the Mob it be. The ignorant, the grasping, the emotional, the depraved, the enraged Mob. [/quote] By the way I HOPE I'm wrong.

I would also like to add this: "We the people have the authority according to America’s Declaration of Independence, which states:[indent] [b]That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government[/b], laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience has shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. [b]But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.[/b]"[/indent] These are the principles upon which this country was built. These principles which will be the battle cry for future patriots, of which there will be many. If it comes down to it, the sheep will call those who fight for the betterment of the country through revolution "terrorist". But God willing, the history books will call them [color=#ff0000][b]Patriots[/b][/color].

I can assure you that there was cheating in pennsylvania, ohio, and florida. The trick is to look for a couple of percentage points difference, max. The pennsylvania state court ruling on the voter id law plus the usual thuggery in philadelphia tilted pennsylvania. Ohio wuz probably the usual union rat thing. Florida. You know the answer to that. Interesting read on state voting requirements here: http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/State_by_State_Voter_ID_Laws. Take a look at the precentages here: http://elections.nytimes.com/2012/results/president leroy

Removed comment. I'm not getting involved in these stupid online pissing contest anymore.

I think ORSA is definitely worth the price increase.

As close as this race was and not 1 vote? I didn't hit my head that hard when I fell off the turnip truck last night.

I doubt it.

Uh... I did not say anything about killing anyone. All I said was that, in my opinion, being antigun is a vastly large part of the democrat platform. I don't think that is hard to prove. Like you I [b][i]think[/i][/b] there are anti-gun Republicans out there, but I cannot guarantee that there are. They seem to keep it low toned if they exist at all. The point is that I can not see how someone can all themselves Democrat and at the same time try to speak of unity to the 2A community. I am not trying to offend here, but being a democrat is part of the problem because that is the party seeking to ban our rights. You cannot sit in the mud and not get muddy, just like you cannot, in my opinion, be a Pro 2A democrat. I could understand if the republicans were treading on the 1A. You know, like trying to make legislation labeling hate speech, or things like that. I myself feel the 1A is more important than the 2A, but that is the only thing that is more important.The Prez made his intentions clear during the last debate speaking of the AR ban and mentioning pistols. If someone saw that and still voted for him they are not Pro 2A. They are just Democrats that happen to "like guns."

[img]http://cdn.conservativebyte.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Stupid.jpg[/img] [img]http://politichicks.tv/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/myans-300x300.jpg[/img]

Very dirty business going on. Dirtier than General nailing a wacky groupie.

[quote name='Jesse' timestamp='1352810793' post='844743']I agree felons should have strict rules. But how do they protect them selfs if an intruder has a gun? Do you just die? [/quote] Actions have consequences

If people were that upset over the election, they should have gotten more people involved in the voting process. The people have spoken and Barako won. Try again in 4 years.

Plot thickens. Now we find that Clapper knew about the affair in Sept. of 2011, and Holder knew by this summer, and whole investigation "officially" wrapped up 2 weeks before the election. And the kicker is that the affair ended in July and all the involved knew that it had. Which of course makes it pretty obvious that nobody was going to force him out over some strange nookie, only that it was a bit of dirt to keep in BHO's back pocket in case it were ever needed. It's becoming quite apparent that if Benghazi hadn't happened, Petraeus' resignation wouldn't have happened, especially since even he made a "it's the video" statement at one point (likely coerced since the affair was known). But then either his statement about "nobody in CIA denied help" buried him, for BHO to call his "pecker in my pocket" chit in, or, maybe Petraeus just couldn't take the political filth anymore and did indeed resign on his own prerogative, but if so, it sure wasn't over the affair in and of itself. If the latter is the case, I expect his truthfully testimony to come out eventually. Whatever eventually emerges, all this new info shows that the whole shebang is just as dirty or dirtier than any of us have yet opined. - OS

There was nothing great about Mr. Lincoln other than he presided over the greatest killing of Americans in history. Oh, and he ushered in the foundations of what has us in the unfortunate place we now find ourselves.

Uhm, Abraham Lincoln determined that States do not have the right to secede. I suspect that precedent would be upheld by a federal show of force. It is the reason I am not a big Lincoln fan.

[quote name='KOM2' timestamp='1352397125' post='841877'] Maybe we could make a deal and drop a state at the same time to keep the flags correct? What does everyone think? CA, IL? I'm open. [/quote] I would want TX to drop off, so I can move to the new republic of TX