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I think Wasserman was in the military back when she was still a man.

Yes, but in all my years in LE I have yet to see one person be forced to plead guilty. The judge asks the defendent if he agrees to the plea and when the person says "yes" they become convicted of domestic abuse. If you don't want to plea then go to trial, that way you can explain your side of the story and let the jury make the decision. Heck, in a lot of cases they will let the abuser plea down to a lesser charge if it is their first time. A bruise is all it takes IMHO. If you are manhandling a women enough to leave a bruise then you are a POS and should loose [u]everything[/u]. Not just your gun rights. And most of those who[u] are [/u]abusers tned to be whiny asses and will cry anytime they think they are being abused. If you lay hands on a women during an argument in order to comtrol her or win the argument you are a POS. Dolomite

[quote name='Dolomite_supafly' timestamp='1352920263' post='845602']Because I am not going to support anything that improves the life of an abuser. Hit the report button if you feel that strongly about it. Dolomite[/quote] Honestly I could care less if you supported midgets wearing drag, teaching sex ed at schools. And I don't see the point of reporting moderators to another moderator. I just feel that you involved emotions and you lost your objectivity in your decision to remove his link. Sent from my SPH-L710 using Xparent Red Tapatalk 2

Whether or not we agree with the subject, without him violating a specific rule, deleting the post on a board the encourages personal freedom and speaking for what you believe in is very disturbing to me. While I don't believe in the hurting or touching a woman in any violent or non consensual manner, I saw a lot of consensual sex get turned into rape cases if they got caught in the barracks when I was in. I have seen all to often how quickly a scorned woman can ruin a mans life and career when he did nothing wrong.

Let's start off with this. I do not care about this petition, when it was first posted I looked at it and then decided not to sign it. Domestic violence was a major part of my childhood and do not condone it. If you don't agree with something, don't sign the petition. Great, speak your mind about it and move on. But where does it say if someone doesn't agree with something then the link should be deleted? I read through the code of conduct and I may have missed what part of the code this violated, but I didn't see a reason why this should have been deleted. Your house your rules, I get that. But as much as this forum preaches about maintaining our various freedoms, I really didn't expect this.

[quote name='Commando68' timestamp='1352911040' post='845493'] If Thomas Jefferson, Patrick Henry, George Washington and the gang had that attitude we would be subjects to the British Monarchy. Through creeping socialism and the growth of the nanny state we have created a nation of pathetic "american idol" worshipping sheepish slaves to the fedgov. Rugged Independent Americans that can think for themselves and have a job have to pay for it. We are no longer the land of the free and home of the brave. That is a joke. Secession is the answer. Libertarian principles of limited govt and personal freedom would make the new Republics work. [/quote] You are no patriot. You are going to give up on the country when they need us most. You will not be able to do s single thing to effect change if you are no longer a citizen of the US. What did you do, other than just vote, to forward your candidate and his way of thinking? To me those who want to secede have denounced their US citizenship and should have all the perks of being a citizen removed. After all if you no longer want to be a part of this country or the political process you should not benefit from it either. Imagine how many would be crying right now if they were told they are no longer a US citizen and not allowed to vote? Or told they would not be eligible to receive the federal income tax return or their retirement. Or they were cut off from the unemployment benefits? Those wanting to remove themselves from the US go right ahead. There are plenty of other countries that will gladly take an American patriot. Dolomite

One more thing if the victim posts the bond for the subject then all charges are to be dropped. Dolomite

I'm so dumbfounded by this, I can't even express it. It's like someone is sitting back and thinking, "How can we flip the biggest bird possible to our men and women in uniform, and by proxy the American public?" "What's Jane Fonda doing? Oh. She's at that wine tasing with Hillary? How about the former junior Senator from Massachuessets who by the way served in Vietnam?"

[quote name='gregintenn' timestamp='1352940378' post='845806'] I could not agree more. You can't get most lazy fat Americans to get out of their car and walk into McDonald's to get a Big Mac; they'd rather grab it from the car window. If there was a revolution; who'd fight it? [/quote] I hate getting out of my car to get a burger too. Thank god for Sonic I guess. I'm very clear on the criteria that will cause me to get my Wolverines on. 1. Suspension of elections due to power grab or coup of some kind. 2. Any viable attempt to overthrow our government that has been elected by the American people. We are Americans. We get to have revolution at he polls. If my side loses I just wait until the next election cycle. Any attempt to change that system by force will cause me and the people like me to smack down those that would see the end to that. We would win.

[quote name='gregintenn' timestamp='1352938738' post='845774'] Did you see a couple of years back when the news reported that his average electricity bill at his one home in Brentwood was several thousand a month? Hypocrite? [/quote] Forget that, one trip in his private jet creates more pollution than 1,000 of the Prius' he tells everyone to buy, in their entire usable life

There are still Army barracks out there that have John Kerry urinal targets in the pissers. I guess they'll have to change those out.

I wonder.... What if we do have secession...What if the Federal government collapses under the weight of its own idiocy...What if we do have a second American Revolutionary War...What then? The real problem with our country is not really in Washington D.C.; it's in the hearts of the people...you can have revolution after revolution but when the last shot is fired you still have the people and the people, not the "politicians" and not the "unions" and not the "lobbyists"; its' the PEOPLE who are the problem. The first American Revolution worked NOT just because we defeated the British; it worked because we had strong, independent minded people who were capable and WILLING to take care of themselves and men of exceptional principles and morals who were willing to be servant-leaders.

Our Constitution will be shredded when the dear leader appoints one or two more supreme court justices. This system does NOT WORK. When we hit 20 trillion in debt and barry's cloward/piven strategy(bring down the economy by overwhelming with entitlements) pays off none of this will matter. The people that voted for the ivy league communist are either: socialists, black, hispanic, feminists, labor union thugs or what I call the "american idol mentality" lobotomized sheep. So yes, I am turing my back on the obamanation. We are the laughing stock of the world reelecting someone that despises the very country he was elected to lead.

Because I am not going to support anything that improves the life of an abuser. Hit the report button if you feel that strongly about it. Dolomite

[quote name='HvyMtl' timestamp='1352912440' post='845516'] Voting machine Fraud? Unlikely. Several of the voting machine companies, like the ones in Ohio, were supposedly big GOP donators. Unless it is all a conspiracy, give the GOP donations, so we can lull them into not watching us, so we can then swap votes to Dems... Nice post of a conspiracy theory.[/quote] If someone does something to my computer to cause a problem, is it the computer manufacturer's fault or the fault of the person who did the act? If a voting machine is hacked/tampered with in some way, does it matter who the manufacturer of the machine was? There IS voter fraud, I think a lot of it and no one, especially the Democratic power structures and their ilk (the ACLU, etc) want to do anything about it. That means, unfortunately, that the ONLY way around it is for the election to not be so close that the fraud can push the election in the direction it wants.

[quote name='Symbolic' timestamp='1352909218' post='845471'] He's fighting for what he believes is right. Isn't that what we've been taught to do? It's understandable that it gets annoying when people don't shut up about things. A carbon tax for big industries is probably a good thing in the end. [/quote]BS...he's fighting for his investments.

For those of you who think it’s a good idea to overthrow the government, are you going to do away with voting in your new government? As much as it sickens me this man was elected by a popular vote of the people. Quit whining and feeling sorry for yourself and get involved in getting a candidate ready for the next election that can win. It’s a better plan than the one you are contemplating.

[quote name='Glenn' timestamp='1352858814' post='845163'] Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc-ra-cy) - a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers . [/quote] Good one, but you forgot to add that a Ineptocracy generally occurs after a once great country has been lead into a bogus war, burned thru a surplus and starts snooping on it's citizens.

[quote name='LINKS2K' timestamp='1352830299' post='844880'] Obamas admistration is bad. Worth civil unrest? No! [/quote] Not sure where you're coming from, I can only infer which group you are attempting to speak to, but... if Romney had won there would have already been riots in the streets, looting, violence perpetrated on caucasians and more. Already. It would be past tense or still be ongoing. Since 0bama "won", things are relatively calm and peaceful. That's because the group that "lost" is the more mature, reasonable, cautious group, the group that acts with honor and abides by the law, regardless of the circumstances. So I'm not sure which group you are saying that are "[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Wanting to destroy OUR country because you didn't get your way in a election is STUPID!" I don't hear anyone talking about that. The side that "won" will do a plenty good job of destroying the country as it is.[/font][/color]

aah, who cares who they pick. Does anyone really think someone suitable to a group of people on a gun board will be chosen?

My son came home from school with a permission slip asking if he could watch "selected scenes" from the Patriot. I signed it yes and told him to go back and say we have it on DVD and tell the teacher he's seen it at least a dozen times!

Let's hope the truth is revealed and changes are made to protect Americans in the future.

OK guys ease up already...sheez.....I left the flinlocks at home because I wanted a challenge and give the deer a sport'n chance.... That's my story and I'm gonna stick with it! Dave S

What are you doing shooting a plastic muzzleloader?!

Just shy of secession, states rights, state sovereignty and nullification are our last best hope for saving the nation. It is one of the checks and balances built into our government, it's just not one we've used often enough to remember it. If Mr. Haslam will refrain from setting up insurance exchanges, refrain from expanding medicare coverage there's nothing the feds can do to make us get on obamacare, it's in the SCOTUS opinion, read it. And for your reading enjoyment here is a small excerpt from said SCOTUS rulling: [left][size=4][font=Courier New][i]The Framers thus ensured that powers which "in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people were held by governments more local and more accountable than a distant federal bureaucracy. The independent power of the States also serves as a check on the power of the Federal Government: 'By denying anyone government complete jurisdiction over all the concerns of public life, federalism protects the liberty of the individual from arbitrary power' ... In the typical case we look to the States to defend their prerogatives by adopting 'the simple expedient of not yielding' to federal blandishments when they do not want to embrace the federal policies as their own. [/i][/font][b][font=Courier New][u][i]The States are separate and independent sovereigns. Sometimes they have to act like it."[/i][/u][/font][/b][/size][/left] Looks to me like even though we might not have agreed with the obamacare rulling, the justices said: "here you go boys, it's in your court now." There's not a better time to begin flexing our sovereign mite than now. And one last FYI, if obamacare is the law in TN, any of you with individual insurance policies can expect those premiums to double because of the new rules obamacare requires. Chances are you'll be jumping on the government insurance bandwagon toot-sweet. How does that feel?

[quote name='OhShoot' timestamp='1352926572' post='845679'] Most of the world loves Obama. Only in the US are his favorable ratings anywhere near as low as 50%. - OS[/quote] They loved his Apology Tour. The countries we've thrown countless dollars at don't like us, and the other countries are envious of us - until Obama's goal of cutting us down to size is accomplished.

[quote name='JayC' timestamp='1352905579' post='845432'] ,,,,,Recent history doesn't seem to support your argument, look at the break up of the Soviet Union... States were allowed to leave and form their own countries, and while all of that happened under a massive economic turmoil... trade didn't stop, cross board travel didn't stop, and life went on in a crappy way...[/quote] I don't think that's a valid analogy. A long complicated affair, but basically Mother Russia kept granting more and more autonomy to its SSRs and eventually cut them loose via it's own prerogative. All spurred by systemic economic failure. So far, Mother USA (Washington, DC) is still tightening control over its states. Perhaps once we totally fail economically as did the USSR, something similar might occur. But what results wouldn't be 50 individual nation states, but regional countries. Like the United South East, Confederation of Mountain States, Rust Belt Federation, New England Union, Pacific Pact, whatever. Might reform into a looser national confederation for trade purposes just as the current CIS that replaced the USSR. Hmm, maybe it wouldn't be so bad. - OS

[quote name='wewoapsiak' timestamp='1352922374' post='845626'] Honestly I could care less if you supported midgets wearing drag, teaching sex ed at schools. And I don't see the point of reporting moderators to another moderator. I just feel that you involved emotions and you lost your objectivity in your decision to remove his link. Sent from my SPH-L710 using Xparent Red Tapatalk 2 [/quote]I reported it...it's my understanding that the "report" goes to all moderators and, hopefully, it might at least generate a little discussion and perhaps a better explanation of what was wrong with the OP posting the link. I agree, and I mean no disrespect to Dolomite, but it sounded to me as if the decision to remove the link was made on emotion rather than a concrete reason/violation of TOS, etc. If it's reasonable and IAW TOS to, for example, discuss the pros/cons of restoration of rights to convicted felons, then we ought to be able to discuss the pros/cons of restoration of rights of someone convicted of a misdemeanor.

I think an attorney MIGHT be able to talk me into pleading guilty for writing bad checks, slander, or other minor things even though I have done none of them. Sometimes it is easier to plead out than to go to trial, even if you are innocent. However, crimes like domestic violence and sexual misconduct carry penalties that last longer than murder in some cases. I realize that in some cases these penalties like registrations for the rest of your life go against your right to do your time then be done with it, but they are there never the less. I agree with Dolomite that anyone who would lay hands on a woman is a POS. I further say that there is nothing any lawyer could say to be that would cause me to plead guilty to one of these "forever punishment" crimes that I did not do. Anyone who is dumb enough to plead guilty to a domestic crime or sex crime they did not do is not someone I, for one, want to ever be armed again. They are just too dumb. Just my opinion.

[quote name='DaveTN' timestamp='1352894286' post='845367'] I wonder if when the rich were saying that there was only going to be two classes, rich and poor, they understood that the poor would kill and eat them? [/quote] I wonder if the "poor" have ever heard the parable of killing the goose that lays the golden eggs?

[quote name='Dolomite_supafly' timestamp='1352866886' post='845289'] Someone, anyone, explain to me how removing ourselves from the United States of America will make us better. I know this is symbolic but realistically if we were allowed to secede what would we gain? Dolomite [/quote] Yes it's symbolic, it's mainly a protest. I don't think "MOST" of those who sign a petition to secede are actually serious about seceding, just sending a message to the Obama administration of no confidense. A better worded petition of seccession might include that so and so state petitions to secede from the [b]Socialist States of Hussien [/b]and form the country, the [b]United States of America [/b]and re-adopt the constitution written in the later 1700's by the original founding fathers. I'm not going to call these petitioners idiots or traitors because I know where they are comming from. It's just a protest to stir some emotions,(p!ss some liberals off) and send a message of how divided the current Commie in Chief and his socialist toadies are making our country.

What a great way to make more business go overseas.

Humm....a man who clearly hates the military and has disgraced his own service for political gain...why am I not surprised that this administration would consider him for SecDef...it makes me so proud!

[size=4][color=#000000]First….., full disclosure.[/color] [color=#000000]While I never worked directly for GEN Petraeus, I did come in contact with him several times during the 2001 - 2004 timeframe. He was always the smartest guy in the room and he liked that fact. I really didn't care for the way he treated his senior staff, but that was more of a leadership style difference between commanders. So count me as neither pro nor con Petraeus.[/color] [color=#000000]I think Petraeus has made a masterful and brilliant strategic move.[/color] [color=#000000]He has taken away the key element that his enemies could hold over him, the affair. [/color] [color=#000000]That affair was supposed to keep him in line to continue whatever Great Lie the admin wish for him to speak in regard to Libya.[/color] [color=#000000]Now the affair can’t be used against him. Also by resigning as the DCIA, he is no longer part of the admin and therefore has no requirement to be loyal to the false actions and directions that this POTUS has taken.[/color][color=#000000] [/color] [color=#000000]All that is required now is for the Right Questions to be asked of Petraeus.[/color][/size]

The man whored around, big deal, 90% of the world does the same thing. The man is good at seeing to the death of terrorists. Should just let him do his job. Funny how the media wouldn't report a damn thing over benghazi but they are on this like a pack of wild dogs. This country is so stupid, I don't have the words to descibe.

An extra Merry Chrsitmas to Daniel here. With the hell and headaches of the fire you've had to deal with, I for one would not have thought ill of you for dropping this. Kings to you for perseverance.

[quote name='mcurrier' timestamp='1352865279' post='845258'] I can tell you now that you won't be defending them from Republicans. [/quote] Terrorists and traitors don’t get to be Republicans or Democrats; they are just terrorists and traitors. But most of the nut cases I see talking about taking up arms against other Americans claim to either be Republicans or some lame azz 3rd party. But it doesn’t matter what they claim to be; they aren’t Americans once they try to overthrow our country by force; they are “domestic enemies”.

[quote name='LINKS2K' timestamp='1352859359' post='845168'] Good one, but you forgot to add that a Ineptocracy generally occurs after a once great country has been lead into a bogus war, burned thru a surplus and starts snooping on it's citizens. [/quote] While Obama seems to be the master of bad policy, he certainly didn't invent it.

[quote name='HvyMtl' timestamp='1352872624' post='845323']My 2 cents: These people (hopefully) are just letting off steam. It is so easy these days with the internet to do a Rage fest, and not have any major repercussions, except may be having a few people block you on Facebook. That said, how [u]unpatriotic[/u] of you. And stupid. YES, [u]STUPID[/u]. A. SINGLE. VOTE. Did not go the way you wanted? And you want to THROW AWAY THE WHOLE COUNTRY? How stupid is that? Stop saying these things, it shows you are unable to control your anger. And you are unrealistic, at best, stupid and unpatriotic at worst. Donald Trump is the present day P.T. Barnum. He is in it to make money off of it. Ignore the hair.[/quote] What's stupid is the total disregard for our freedoms by this administration and they just get away with it! What do you call the people that are willing to look the other way while it happens? It's more about the continuation of destructive policies than the election itself.

You may be able to get away with medium rings. I know several people who use medium rings with a 50mm scope. It all depends on the barrel profile, and the type of rings. I would give the mediums a try first, then move up to high if you need to.

[quote name='LINKS2K' timestamp='1352852032' post='845090'] I'm not attempting to carry water, blow or piss in the wind. Republicans or democrats, whoever wants to raise hell because they do not get their way is just being childish. Stupidity has no party or color. [/quote]You have been implying that Republicans are wanting to "raise hell", but that is just not the case, there is not one shred of evidence pointing to that, it just doesn't exist. Trying to lump Republicans in with the like of Democrats who have actually called for violence just doesn't work. If you are going to defend the USA and the Constitution as you stated in the opening post, I can tell you now that you won't be defending them from Republicans.

Just look at the Brits, and their advice at the end of the vid...... [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkS2BRoCd2I"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkS2BRoCd2I[/url]

For what you'll pay for the Bushnell vs the value, save a bit more and get a Vortex Strike Fire or SPARC. They come with the mounts, 2x doubler and a life time warranty.

[quote name='LINKS2K' timestamp='1352836999' post='844939'] Yes, it was a stinking mess. That's why it is so puzzling to hear people talking about doing it again. Civil unrest and secession aren't just ideas that you casually float around. [/quote] Though we seem to be on the opposite side of the larger issue, I agree with this statement. They are ideas that aren't just casually floated, but who says there is anything casual about this discussion of these topics? The constitution that you, me and many others here swore that oath to defend isn't just about our current administration, or any administration over our history. It is about the ideas of freedom and personal liberty. It was written to protect those ideals and for the people to be able to retain them. The US government lost it's way before our grandparents were born. At this point I truly believe the government to be an enemy of the people of this nation and the constitution we swore an oath to defend. The only way to save the latter, is to destroy to former as reformation is impossible at this point. I could be completely wrong. Maybe in a few years the people and the states will rise up and peacefully reclaim what was stolen from them by the socialist central planners on both sides of the aisle in DC. I hope I am wrong, but I doubt it.

Look into how much is actually used for the wounded. You will be even more disgusted. We would spend money on it then we found out the amount for the "administration". They started with good intentions but now it is a greed based organization. Executive directors at the WWP are making $200K+ annually. By contrast the DAV and the VFW directors take no money for what they do. Dolomite

Removed comment. I'm not getting involved in these stupid online pissing contest anymore.

heh. That occured to me. I wondered how they would validate the critter came from the reservation. "Rigor Mortis?? No man, That there yote had arthritis."

[quote]Comparing us to the above mentioned countries is hardly a valid argument, in my opinion. The US probably has more guns and gun owners than all of those countries combined.[/quote] Pass a few laws and post a few penalties, and when it comes down to it it won't matter how many gunowners this country currently has. How many fathers would risk ten years jail-time per firearm when he has a family to take care of? How many working class people would risk an ammo stockpile at $100 per round fine? It will get really hairy when times really get rough and you have people going hungry. Then all the government has to do is offer food vouchers or monetary payoffs to anyone that reports any fellow comrades holding out. Today you may be shooting buddies, but if your buddy's family is starving, he may just give the government a call and tell them about that one place you hid a box of ammo with a rifle. Of course (hopefully) this is extreme, but if the government was allowed to do it and we were to let them get away with it, it is exactly how it could go down. Today's generations have no idea what suffering is like. They have no idea what freedom means. Of course the founding fathers of our country wouldn't balk at a confiscation of arms; They would fight and die for it. They knew what it meant to live under suppression; They knew what it meant to die freely. Unfortunately, I think the 2nd amendment is something that a very large percentage would sacrifice if it were announced that no firearms owner would be allowed to buy the newest iPhone or something. Today's generation doesn't care about being free; They care about whether they have WiFi access and whether or not they have unlimited data on their cell plan. Or at least I fear...

I love the people of Illinois...I love Chicago...lived there for a year...I used to visit all the time just because I loved it but I stopped that a few years ago when I began to realize that my tourist dollars was only helping to perpetuate their unconstitutional gun laws. I travel Route 66 which, for anyone who doesn't know, starts in Chicago with a significant portion running the length of Illinois - I won't go there anymore; these days I pick up the route in Missouri. My problem isn't with the people of Illinois; it's with the politicians who RUN the state and who operate it as if it's a soviet state...as long as that condition exists, they'll never see my face, or my money ever again.

Exactly. I just found the tone of a few posts on this thread to be a little over-the-top with the whole "you're an irresponsible person if you even remotely think about stopping for a beer or two while you have a CCW with you, and if you can't control yourself any better than that, you're probably a borderline alcoholic" stance that they took. Like I said, I get it. Don't drink and play with guns. I agree with that, but if I grab a beer with dinner, that hardly makes me irresponsible or dangerous. I used to arrest drunks for a living, so I know the difference.