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Here's what you guys all need to consider: The fact that they keep saying a thing doesn't mean they don't mean the thing and won't execute their plan to destroy the 2A and disarm America. It doesn't mean they aren't committed to that goal. It just means they haven't been able to successfully pull it off yet. Do NOT become complacent or dismissive of it. They have told you what they want to do. They are in it for the long haul. We have to be equally committed and not let boredom or arrogance cause us to let our guard drop. As soon as we do, they will pounce and it will unravel quickly. Mark my words. I am a nutjob, I guess, because I think powers-that-be orchestrated the theft of the 2020 election. I don't love Trump and I think he is a toxic personality. Four more years of him might have been the death of America also. He might have become the next Vladamir Putin, never leaving office, just changing the rules of the game to keep him in power regardless of title. But Biden and Harris absolutely represent a voter base that wants to see America become a socialist country. When I look at how the 2020 election unfolded, I don't see one tactic being used against Trump or the GOP. I see a staggering array of tactics used. If I am correct, "they" threw everything they had against the wall to see what would work. They even threw things at the wall that would have previously never dared be used in the light of day, because they figured that there was enough hatred for Trump that even if the public noticed, the public wouldn't care. The public would say that the end justified the means. And here we are. A ridiculous number of things seemed to be effective and perhaps it was success through asymmetry: No one thing alone would have worked, but a combination of crazily disparate things did because people couldn't comprehend what was going on and therefore dismissed it as an impossibility. If I am right about that, you'll see that tactic used to destroy the 2A and disarm America.

I have been reading some variation of this statement on TGO for over a decade. I cannot spend every day worrying about something I have zero control over. They have a tiny majority in the Senate. Razor Thin. I believe it's very unlikely that each Democrat will sign on to major gun control. For democratic senators in red states it would be a death sentence for their career. Let's be honest, they care about saying in the Senate more than ANYTHING else. The more likely scenario is some form of executive order which I believe would be taken to SCOTUS.

I'll say this, if I'm wrong in my previous post, and they actually do pass sweeping gun control, then the events at the Capitol will look minor compared to what I imagine will happen. I'll be praying for peace.

https://babylonbee.com/ About worth the same as any other.

It will only feel that way to gun owners. To those who think guns are the problem, it will feel like healing and unity. It's all about perspective.

Before any of this happened on TGO this week I was already on a quest to find sources of news. Just news. Not opinion pieces disguised as news, but just the basic facts of what happened or was happening. It's almost impossible to find. I'm watching these sites now and just trying to read across all of them in the hope that they challenge each other whenever biases are present and it'll be easy to spot that and filter down to the common points, which should be factual. https://www.bbc.com/news https://apnews.com/ https://www.reuters.com/ Here's the secret to happiness: Assume that all news might have some bias just because reporters are humans and as humans we all bias our comments somehow even when we try to report the facts. Also assume that just because you read something about a person, organization, cause or event that you care about, if it makes you mad it doesn't necessarily mean they are just wrong and biased. It might be factual, and that's hard to swallow sometimes. As for forums to discuss politics... I think you just spin the wheel and take your chances. If you want to talk to people who think exactly like you, on most things, it's going to be an echo chamber and there is no real value in that other than reassuring each other that you're right. And if you want a crowd that will challenge you to think objectively and openly, you run the risk of being pissed off a lot. I think it's kind of like bleach. We know that if you add bleach to dirty water it can make it safe to drink. Add too much or too little, though, and it can be fatal for different reasons.

United We Stand. Divided We Fall. From this point forward, non Second Amendment political and legislative discussions are no longer welcome on TGO. Longtime members of TGO may now roll their eyes and mutter, "Not this crap again. We've been here before." Rightly so. We have attempted several times to allow our members to discuss general politics in a mature manner. We have begged, pleaded, threatened and banned in the effort of making it work. It never does. It always falls apart. There is barely such a thing as polite and respectful political discourse in mixed company even when you limit it to talking about firearms and the right to bear them. Thankfully that is what TGO is about. The right to bear arms. We are staunch supporters of the Second Amendment. We are also not ignorant to the fact that we must educate and inform each other when it comes to politics and those political creatures we mentioned previously. We cannot put our heads in the sand. We discuss these things as a matter of necessity - not because we find it enjoyable. But that is where we now draw the line. From now on, if it isn't about politics or legislation that directly affects the Second Amendment, take it somewhere else. We don't need the division here. It is almost cyclical, but the next four years look bleak for gun owners. We are going to have to be more united than ever. We have to find our common ground and stand together atop it. We cannot waver and we must remind ourselves that no matter our differences we are still Americans and, hopefully, we are proponents and defenders of the Second Amendment. We hope you understand. If you don't and you disagree, we hope you'll at least respect the decision. And if you can't do that, we hope you'll find a new place to talk about politics and guns and whatever else. Because it won't be here. I'm done with it and I care about you all and about our freedoms too much to suffer another moment of division and bickering about anything more consequential than your favorite sportsball team. United We Stand. Divided We Fall. God Save The Republic.

Drug bust? Not all LEO's look like they just stepped off an army recruiting poster.

I bought several books of forever flag stamps Jan 2020. I started putting it upside down on my outgoing when the mandates started .

I believe the next administration will declare gun violence a public health crisis, circumvent laws put in place in years ago to prevent that very thing via the CDC, and drive it through with an EO or similar act. I believe in the wake of the pandemic a large amount of our citizens would accept it as "common sense" laws and go back to wringing their hands about the newest strain of death.

Editors used to be there to edit as well, hence the title. You know, to correct grammar and spelling mistakes that no one seems to care about anymore.

I should have posted links to the articles I read weeks and months back but we had a politics police that insisted on hammering your source like a dog humping a shoe so I abstained. Understand I TRULY hope I am wrong. Nothing would please me more. But these articles came to me from a seasoned female ER/trauma Doctor. One who doesn't keep up with guns but has heard guns, health crisis, and CDC mentioned more and more. I believe it dates back to late in the Clinton years iirc. But the article that stuck out and related to our 2020 issues was the parallels to covid and guns.

How much money does one need? Vehicles? Rooms in ones home? Etc,Etc... Free people can & should be able to have whatever they want, in any quantity, need has nothing to do with it.

I don't know, how many socialists do we have?

If/when the paper dollar bill is only good for lighting a fire, ammunition will be worth its' weight in gold. It never hurts to have an emergency fund and ammo is far cheaper to acquire than gold right now.

Sadly the playbook has already been battle tested and sorted. All the predictions are already laws in states after their long term take down of 2A. The co-opting of the govt that appears to be happening may not be appreciated by the hopeful crowd...or not wanting to see perhaps? That is the difference. 2A is just one of the things going away. 1A already has a large muzzle placed on it by the SJW crowd. Just working their way down the list. As David warns, dont think this cant come to what you may see as a safe haven like TN. CA use to be gun friendly too....long ago. It did not happen right away either. 'It cant happen' ended up with the pro gun guys sitting on their couch wishful thinking vs signing the petitions in 2016. Then we watched the final coffin nails driven in by the SUV driving soccer moms following what they were brainwashed to believe by Facebook and the left media, forcing ammo background checks and assault weapon registration down our throats. Kamala style baby!!! And now she is a heart beat away. I don't believe in coincidence. I fear this story writes itself because its really just a case of plagiarism on a larger scale. Hearts and minds people. How? But I dont think you cant have truth and fairness when .gov owns the propaganda engines.

I must not be listening enough, but I have yet to hear much from NPR that leans even one degree right of center.

Here is my take, popularity of gun-control is for the most part over inflated, especially after all the riots and change in administration, as shown by all the new gun owners. But, now that they have full control of the election process, and there is no agency to challenge that, it does not matter what the people want, they will pass whatever "laws" they want and dare the courts to go against them. Yesterday's events are a mere peek at what we may have ahead of us, and until we instill a sense of fear into our "elected" leaders, this will not end well, for any of us, left or right.

I am so fed up with what is going on in this country, I have just quit watching the NEW any more. Politics turns my stomach. always has. All it does is depress me so I just don't watch it anymore. I voted and lost. So be it. The sun will rise in the morning and life will go on. I am glad I am not dependent on Washington and Just am not interested any more. Turn off the tube and read and study your Bibles. Train yourself to live like God wants you too. That is what really counts guys. What happens in Washington is minimal in life.

Been lurking for awhile and figured it's time to pay up. I closed a gun shop 5 years ago in collierville and have many small items to get rid of I'll be posting a few each week. I've done business with several members and I've really had nothing but good to say about any of you guys. When I read through the posting of a Glock 20 for sale, I knew I had to be part of this organization.

I think gun control is a wedge-issue topic designed to rally the base, for the most part. While many politicians may run on such platforms, they may not necessarily vote on them. And then, matters must clear the Courts. We need to be calm, be reasonable and offer a historical/educational perspective of the importance of the 2nd Amendment and how it impacts and improves our safety/democracy. I think there are many relevant and current examples that can be used in our explanations. What I don't think we need are open-carry gun rallies and armed folks storming into legislatures demanding gun rights, etc as this seems to work counter towards the goal. Being cool, polite and empathetic will work much better than shouting matches and mutual disdain. Full Disclosure: I am NOT a card-carrying member of the Optimists Club - lol!

I'll say this. Its a measure of hope. I dont think gun control is as popular with the American public as it may be presented in certain news outlets. I think one nice thing thats come in the past decade is a rise of some aspects of the firearms world to "pop-culture" status because people genuinely like it. Just a small example would be how taran butler's popularity shot up in the general publics eye after the john wick franchise became popular. A lot of movies go more for firearms realism and not just the "this is generic machine gun that go brrrr" type of thing that used to be more typical in films because they know a good portion of the audience is firearms savvy. I've met a lot of guys 18 ~ 35 from deep blue cities that are 100% pro 2A. Some have been raging commies.....granted, but they don't support any laws restricting the right of the people to own and possess any firearm. I would even say based on what I've seen (again these are anecdotes so take that for what you will) the very very far left is as opposed to gun control as the right. Also remember that when we had SHTF lite earlier in the year we had millions of new gun owners taking home a lot more than double barrel shotguns. That proves that when your balls are in a vice superior firepower is popular despite the ravings of the frazzled media. I would say the majority of gun control support comes from the reactionaries, and theyre flakey so you can only get their true undevided support when you pump out news stories about gun violence for weeks on end. Now what this means as far as government is concerned..... well I can't say, if they want you disarmed they'll pass a law, or impose a huge tax....etc. Laws are also letters to Santa clause if no-one enforces them, but thats a digression. Ultimately my point is gun control is a knives-edge topic. Its just a huge balancing act. You bring it up, you will hear your approval being slowly sucked down the drain. I may be totally wrong and babbling a bunch of B.S. but thats just my stream of consciousness on it.

Ok, the General politics forum is gone. Frankly I don't blame David one bit. But this ain't about that. So let's just not go there, OK? Unfortunately, that forum was my main source of non-bias and objective political news. I'm old and somewhat technically challenged. Can somebody point me to one or two good places/forums on the internet where I can find honest, non-bias, non-liberal political news and info?

I take a look at the NY Times website every morning, along with several other news sites, and I noted that this morning there's a front-page link to an article by Gabrielle Giffords, the former representative who was shot and now [figure]heads an anti-gun group. The article only touches on gun-control, but Giffords mentions Biden's "vision" for a safer America. Biden isn't yet sworn in, and already the anti-gun probes and preparation are beginning. Democrats will shortly hold the presidency, the house, and the senate. Stand by for an onslaught against our Second Amendment right. Personally, I'm very concerned.

@TGO DavidThank you. I’ve long been a fan of the politics section but I have to admit that over the last 24 hours I’ve enjoyed logging on to TGO more than I have in quite a long time. I didn’t realize it, but I was having to seriously mentally gird my loins before I clicked on the the /pol/ section. It had made TGO a job instead of a joy. There is a sense of lightness now that’s been missing for quite a while. Sometimes you don’t realize when things are bad until suddenly they aren’t anymore. So, once again, thank you.

I listen to NPR, read the NY Times and watch Fox, and read the Wall Street Journal and then I do something unique: I make up my own mind. The issue in being informed is whether you want to be informed or if you are merely looking for sources to buttress what you already believe.

I've always looked at it like an analogy where there's a group outside the castle with a battering ram. What movie ever shows it as they just walk up and go bonk and the castle door is unhinged. Its constant pounding and eventually they breach it. They've got more people holding on to that ram than ever before.

This assumes that all Republicans vote against. We know that isn't likely to be true. Politicians do whatever they can to preserve their jobs. The easiest way to do that is to make their constituents feel like they are being well-represented. If a Republican feels like it is in the best interest of his or her continued paycheck to support anti-2A legislation, guess what they're going to do. Thinking that it matters who has the majority when the margin is as slim as it is, is dangerous.

The issue is the media and the control of the message. The media / social media will be used to control the masses as we have seen over the last year, and most critically over the last week. I want to share the hopeful thoughts, I really do. However I have lived among the ignorant blue masses before coming here. I've seen this happen on a state scale. The ignorant are easily played with proper marketing featuring words like "safety" and "common sense". As the saying goes, never underestimate the power of stupid. 7 million new gun owners is far to few, far to late to factor. Darrell's comments are on point, they have just had the perfect storm to capitalize on. They likely will align any reasonable 2A movement with resent calls labeling conservatives as violent insurrectionist loonatics while holding up the contrary as peaceful examples of democracy. They are using pointed research and messaging, targeting women and younger gens. They are brilliant marketers. This is where the tide needs to be turned. I have no idea how to get the message and education out there. Exactly as Swamp ash says, being calm to get the correct info out to counter the BS. Its a problem of representation and support on these media platforms that are clearly owned by those that bleed blue it would seem. Biden has outright said he will call on the CDC and go with calling guns a health crisis. The issue being what it grants the feds in light of state laws. Will this happen overnight. Of course not. But as we have seen in the blue states, this is all about chipping away and playing long. But the current environment will allow the next chips to be huge chunks. Things they will move on per their own published game plan: Assault weapon and high normal cap mags. While it has happened before, I dont know, thing feels different this time. Where it goes after that...who knows. Biden at least recognized when asked he cant do executive orders that make folks criminals overnight, and the political issue it would cause. That was at least hopeful. And affirms our biggest hope is he survives the next 4 years.

I have about given up on having political discussions where both parties can remain respectful. I can remember a time when friends could have different views and still be friends. Guess I'm getting old.

Just watched a news conference on the Church shooting, on Jan 3, in Texas. The pastor was killed and another wounded. The Sherriff said there were 2 members in attendance, carrying, and the suspect disarmed the pastor and shot him with his own gun. When asked by a reporter what he what advice he would give others, concerning church safety and security the Sherriff stated he didn't want to second guess anyone in this church shooting, but he said, "If your going to pack a gun you had better be ready to use it." Good advice, IMO. I will add, do it with as much determination as one can bring himself too. You are in a fight for your life when you present your weapon guys.

Well, since we can't act like children anymore I figured I might as well delve into something that I have been wanting to do for a while. My dad was given this rifle in the mid 80's by his great uncle. I don't really know where he got it, but would like to think it has been in the family a long time. It has been sitting in a safe since then and I decided it was time to get it out and shoot it. I ordered brass, bullets, and dies and am ready to load up some rounds (32 wcf). I figured it would be prudent to probably give it a good work through before starting so I decided tonight was the night to start disassembly. From the looks of it, this thing potentially hasn't been apart for probably 100 years. The amount of dirt and grime in it is just amazing. Makes one wonder where it has been and what it has seen. It was clearly used and used a lot which I kind of like. That's what guns are for. I am not really into old guns, but it does make a difference when you know it has been in the family. Got a lot of it apart, but I can't get the forearm off. Debating how to do it. It wont move forward far enough to clear the receiver so it will drop down. It's hitting the dovetailed piece where the metal forecap screws in. It's amazing how tight of tolerance these things had. I suspect it was tight to start and may have swelled a bit over time. Anyway, wasn't in the mood to start getting too aggressive with it just yet. Will probably have to remove a bit of wood from the inside of the forearm to clear the forecap connector. I won't be doing any major restoration and ruin what value it does have, but man does it need a cleaning. Hopefully next time I post it looks like a complete rifle again. Thought some of you may enjoy one of the truly classic old guns.

Sure, and the line pegged near E is almost a half tank.

Editors used to be there to keep bias and editorializing to a minimum. Then they got to costing too much so they cut the editors and let the reporters self edit if any editing happens at all.

I run a count every so often. the first time I did it some years back...I frightened my wife and myself with the total rounds. Then I stepped back and realized that it really wasn't all that high. About 20% was, and still is, 22 and 22 mag. Scatter the rest among the basic pistol calibers that most have, and some rifle and all too few shotgun rounds...it's really not a big number. I've heard people say that you need 1000 rounds to be "prepared". For What? Dedicated shooters will go thru that in a month or less. I've heard that you should have 5000 rounds of your preferred pistol and rifle round. Then again...I've seen photos that just blow that statement away. So what's right? The right number? Your number? Is it that basement/storage room we see shown here sometimes? The one with cases stacked on pallets and against the walls? I can dream can't I? My answer? It's that I can shoot when I want without running out and searching for a box of whatever caliber I need. Is it what I want to have on hand? Is it "enough"? Well...no. I'd much prefer to have the hidden armory buried out in the desert that Arnold/T2 version uncovers before going after Cyberdine Systems. I think that would be enough for me. Maybe.

My thanks to you, ACfixer. Let me explain just a bit. I have been an NRA member since the very early 80's. Always yearly until I could afford the Life fees. Did it a full price, not during one of the specials(though at times I wish I had). My rationale for no further money to the NRA is explained in several other threads. Mostly those to do with Wayne LePierre. His shennigans and exhorbitant lifestyle, not to mention his suit collection. When his reign is over, and a new leadership installed, I, and others, will possibly give more. As far as the incentives to join or renew, I learned very early in my membership, those items were...1 cheap junk just to entice you to give money, and 2, and most repugnant to me, the great majority of it was made in China. Even the multitude of NRA caps I have. I think I have one that wasn't, and it's a prized possession. Not because of the source of manufacture, but because it belonged to my late father-in-law. Until then, the TFA, GOA, 2AF, and others get my small donations. And though it may be late, welcome to the greatest gun forum I know of.

You can never have too much ammo unless you're swimming or on fire. Or if you're an ornery 90+ year old coot with two CONNEX trailers full of .22LR buried in your backyard.

See? https://babylonbee.com/news/congress-upset-as-theyre-the-only-criminals-allowed-in-the-capitol

I'm like this but the opposite of whats happening now. I would buy lots when it's cheap because I'm cheap and I buy when I come across a good deal. I still do, but pre-clownWorld I used to shoot a looooooooot. I kept my dillon running hawt. Rule #1 buy low sell high, or when its cheap stack it deep.

My TEOTWAKI plan involves setting up as a local warlord. Having enough ammo to dole out to the minions is helpful in that endeavor.

Yup. I also look at each news source and ask myself, "who is their target audience" because they're also a business, and businesses cater to their market. I then go into the question of can I still trust the information being presented, even with the biases known. The Washington Post was a great example of this over the last few years...they're in general, a dependable news organization for information and content. Sure, their editorial side has a liberal bend, but most large papers outside the WSJ do. More and more, however, I could see their news being run on a business model of information, often unflattering, about one certain person or their efforts in our government. That's not inherently a bad thing, both on the grounds of an independent media, and holding those in power to account...but it was something I had to keep in mind whenever reading.

Over the course of my career, my work has taken me to a lot of unpopular places in the world. I've seen the effects of unmitigated hatred as people kill one another in places like Bosnia Herzegovina and Croatia. I've spent plenty of time in the Middle East, and even though I'm only in my mid-40's, I can remember what a awesome city Damascus was before the war. I've slept in the shadow of Khobar Towers. For a bunch of years, my job often took me to these unpopular places. Talking to a counselor several years ago, she argued that there shouldn't be a D on PTSD. That nothing is wrong with you - that everything you're experiencing is a normal reaction to extreme stress. I've thought about that a lot over the years. I found myself thinking about it yesterday as I watched the events of yesterday unfold. I found myself getting irritated. My heart rate was up above where it normally is, and I couldn't seem to relax - nor could I really focus on anything particularly well either. I know these signs, and knew that I was going to have nightmares last night. I've got a lot of support in my life. I have a hard time with the word blessing - but this is an area where I'm truly blessed. But I've spoken to a lot of folks today that I know don't have that support in their life. That haven't gotten the support they've needed. Vets. Foreign Service. Agency friends. A lot of us watched yesterday and found ourselves in a weird place. We've seen what happened yesterday a bunch of times other places - but maybe don't have a place to put it when it has happened here. Anyway, that's a long way of saying - if yesterday has opened old wounds - or maybe opened one some you didn't realize you had - there are folks here in a similar place. I'm happy to talk anytime if you need something. Feel free to reach out.

I think If we are to see gun control in the next few years it will be aimed at peripherals as to not throw the frog in boiling water. You'll see: ban on buying ammunition from the internet/ammunition has to go through ffl, ban on private sales, the atf will expand legal definitions and strangle out fringe groups in the firearms community. I would think it would reach a crescendo with a massive tax on all ammunition to make it cost prohibitive. Keep in mind that action taken against that guys 80% receiver today will just creep into something that effects you tomorrow. There is no "ok we're done the world is safe" My dad always said the most dangerous weapon to the anti-gunner is the cheap .22 rifle because thats how children are introduced and grow up to be fully active in the gun community. I think they'll look at it as a multi-generational effort. How do you keep the next generation away from wanting to own firearms.

One thing is for sure, if Biden pushes gun control now it makes a mockery of his healing and unity messaging.

I moved to TN from WA two years ago, not least because of the politics there. WA has one of the most pro-gun ownership constitutions in the country, and has long had a population of blue-collar, independent folks, many of whom love to hunt and fish. But over the past 20 years or so that culture has slowly changed. Not long before I moved new laws were passed that required "universal" background checks, meaning that EVERY firearms transaction now must go through an FFL. If I wanted to loan a rifle to my brother for a hunting trip, I'd be required to take it to an FFL and have it transferred to him, then we'd have to go back again to transfer it to me when he's done with it. New laws in WA require "safe storage" and it seems that at every legislative session more restrictions are proposed. Politics is opportunistic. Right now the anti-gun forces have a lot going for them. They control two of the three branches of government, and probably most importantly, they control the press. The past five years have proved to me that the press is willing to mislead and outright lie about conditions in our nation. The left also controls the social media giants, which have shown a willingness to suppress political speech they deem false or harmful. I hope Erik88 is right and I'm wrong, but I expect to see a strong assault on gun rights, and very soon. After all, how can any of be opposed to "common sense gun safety"? The first I look for is repealing the legislation that protects gun manufacturers, the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act. It will be pretty easy to bleed the manufacturers dry with multiple law suits.