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Yeah, ANOTHER Zimmerman post.  For those of you who are members of the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network, you probably received the August newletter in your email box this morning.  In it, Marty Hayes has an excellent article on Lessons Learned in the Zimmerman Case.  Very well written and informative.  I will share some bulletpoints and my own comments:   1.  Cost of the Case -  Evidently, Zimmerman's cost to date on his defense is over $400,000.  Part of that was $95,000 to his bail bond.  Even the best of self-defense insurance policies won't cover that full cost.  Be prepared to expend HUGE amounts of money if you are ever prosecuted.  The bail bond will be due very early in the case and will likely be significant.  Do you have the ability to make those payments, particularly in a short amount of time?  If not, how would you deal with it?  Are you going to be stuck in jail (i.e., no bail money) or stuck with a public defender (i.e., no retainer fee)?   2.  Ammo Selection - this has been discussed many times, but ammo selection is almost always a key part of a self-defense case.  Not necessarily whether or not your ammo was appropriate, but because of the physical evidence ammo leaves at the scene.  Being able to reproduce (as close as possible) the gunshot residue could be vital.  As a result, handloads have a distinct downside.  Even if you could reproduce the exact load, you would HAVE to testify to show that (and you might not want to testify, as Zimmerman chose not to).  Commercial ammo, particularly from a reputable company that still makes the exact load you used, gives you the ability to recreate the gunshot residue pattern and use an expert witness to bolster your case.  As you may recall, the gunshot residue was significant in the Zimmerman case to show that Martin was on top of Zimmerman at the time of the shooting.   3.  Changes to a Stock Gun -  while not specifically brought out in the Zimmerman case, Marty talks about 4 other cases where he has been a witness recently.  The state produced a firearms expert witness in each case to discuss the gun used, its safety features, etc.  Zimmerman's gun was, apparently, a stock gun, so not much came out about it.  However, changes to a stock gun (such as reducing trigger pull weight, personalized engravings, etc) would have been a big issue in Zimmerman, as it has been in other cases, if he had not used a stock gun.  If you make changes to a stock gun for your self-defense weapon, think about what those changes show to a jury.    4.  Your History - Zimmerman's history of calls to police, his desire to be an LEO, etc. were major issues for the prosecution.  If Zimmerman had made online postings that were negative, rest assured the prosecution would have used them.  Before you tell people how you would defend yourself, or before you post something on TGO, think about what that statement or post would look like in front of a jury.  There is a current post about whether someone needs to take a butt-kicking before defending himself.  I would suggest just looking at those posts and asking yourself whether or not you would want to have a jury viewing those posts if you were on trial.  Some of the posts would be fine, but I think there are a few that I would not want to have to defend in court.   If you are a member of the Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network, please read that article.  Marty has the experience and knowledge that really helps to understand and learn from the Zimmerman case. 

Those of you who think he's stupid need to take a closer look.  He's anything but that.  Belligerent, careful, methodical, vengeful... perhaps all of those.  But not stupid.  Law Enforcement realizes this and they handle him with a 10-foot pole now.  Unfortunately they're just not swinging it very hard.

If you have no shame, how could you be embarrassed?

These darn whippersnappers. I had to earn my 50's.

  You know would probably vomit at the use of this quote to defend Leonard's actions?  Thomas Paine.

Isn't he just a Kardashian without the tits?

  He's mainly just pro-Corker.   - OS

  Nice guys don't go after people as vengefully as he's done to several over the years.  Nice guys don't post my HCP and my wife's HCP and my wife's birth certificate on their web pages and make sexually explicit remarks about my wife on their web site.   Leonard doesn't like me very much because I was one of the forum admins that booted him.  The feeling is mutual of course, but some people don't have class.   Maybe Brad Thor will offer to buy a new gun for whichever citizen finally smokes this clown during his next publicity stunt.  As has been said, sooner or later he's going to scare the right person and they're going to perceive him as a threat and end this bull#### for all of us.  But I'm sure Leonard has briefed his wife completely so that she will know precisely how to sue that person in civil court and try to provide the sort of life for her and their kids that he seemingly can't any other way.... so I hope they have a good lawyer.   Those of you who think he's a great guy and who support him financially through your firearms purchases have dozens of other choices on where to spend your money locally.  Why this guy?  Does something about his character resonate with you?

running a filter on it will help reduce that to a certain degree.  so would running a light that isn't as bright.  The down fall with both of those is you loose a little bit of the disorienting effect that the light has on the bad guy.   If you have good night vision as it, you shouldn't be relying on the light until you are reasonably sure you know where the bad guy is. At that point you should either be leaving the light on or turning every light in the house on.  there isn't much reason to go back to darkness once you've found the threat.   There are some things you can do with your home lighting to give you the better tactical advantage as well.  For me i leave a small light on in my washer dryer area.  This provides very dim illumination to the living room and kitchen area and will still silhouette a person in the hall way.  I leave the rest of my house blacked out.  Basically add just enough light to silhouette the BG throughout their likely avenues of approach while leaving your avenue of approach to high threat areas a dark as possible.   Your pistol light should only be used to illuminate a threat for final target identification and shoot/don't shoot decision.     For one person home defense i really do not suggest attempting to clear your entire house.  Clear forward just far enough that your family is safe behind you and establish a solid defensive position at that point.  Single person room clearing is the most difficult and dangerous type of room clearing there is and although knowing the area offers you some advantage it is still not preferable.    Hope this was somewhat helpful.

Well, I guess I'll stick with the tradition and say a lil something. First and foremost, thank you to TGO David for everything he does and to the mods for everything they do. I have really enjoyed my short time here. I wish I'd found this forum a LONG time ago. I've only met a few guys from here but I'm sure I'll make a few more friends before it's over. I am by no means a firearms guru, but I love the camaraderie of family and friends going shooting together. There is much taught and learned at every gathering, much like every time I log on to TGO each night....Oh and yes, it's every night! :usa:   I love the Show and Tell, I've learned about weapons that I'd never seen or held. Made me want to buy a few of them, and made me drool since I'll probably not ever have some of them due to $$$ I know there are a few guys on here who like to claim the jerk titles, but most of them I have learned a lot from, just reading their responses to other members questions. And of course, there is also much entertainment, whether intentional or accidental :rofl: Thanks again everyone and I'm very glad to be a member!!!

  Who knows. It's Kwik.   - OS

I just talked with a member of the school board and figured out the idea behind this. They obviously couldn't just GIVE these kids a 50, because that wouldn't be fair. But it's also unfair that some kids have 100s and some kids have below passing grades. So they're going to take points from the kids with 100s and give to the kids with less. They call it a "grade tax." This way, all the kids prosper and can get into good schools. It may lower the grades of those kids with 100s, but what do they need such high grades for? Now, what are they going to do if they run out of points to redistribute and kids still aren't passing you ask?! And the answer is equally as genius. Knowing that plenty of kids have done well for several years and, for lack of a better description, "put 100s away for years," they're going to go back to those years and pull points from those previous years and give to kids now. By raising everyone's grades in this manner, the class as a whole will prosper and less kids will be forced out of high school.

There is no liberal radio for the same reason there is no Kindergarten radio.

No.   He was simply one of the numerous GOP senators who voted to end filibuster and take up the Manchin-Toomey Background Check Bill back in April, the actual passage of which both he and Lamar voted nay.   - OS

If you watch the dashcam footage at about the 3 minute mark you hear what sounds like the officer texing on a phone while waiting for dispatch to get back to him. Probably texts his budies. "Holy s### I've got George Zimmerman stopped" lol

The other day, after we had installed our Roku, I spent the afternoon pausing and restarting the wifes movies with the Android tablet from across the house.   Kept telling her..."well, I guess this digital streaming stuff doesn't work well.  I guess we should have not got rid of Comcast TV!"  (it was her idea).   Plenty of entertainment until she caught me :hiding:

I don't have one to sell but I use one every day. The best battery ever on a phone. I hardly ever have to charge it during the day, all others 2 pm at best before needing charged. Love the phone. Good luck picking one up.

5.11 tac-lite pro pants and shorts are awesome.

It is actually terribly flawed. So flawed in fact I could eat a bowl of alphabet soup and crap a better argument, but if you type with more caps it might make it more applicable to... something. The flaw is that your example describes examples of specific acts of aggression towards an individual. Voldemort actions, stupid and ignorant as they may be, were not specifically aggressive towards anyone, just generally inflammatory and of a nature designed to elicit response from LE. ETA: I cannot believe you got me to defend that assnugget. I hope you are proud of yourself.

Ok, first I dismiss your flawed example...  Your example is nothing like what happened.   A more apt example would be a man carrying an anti-union sign walking back and forth in front of the local union hall, then blaming him because the union thugs took the bait and beat him senseless.  That because he dared do something perfectly legal it's somehow his fault for the over reaction and illegal actions by the other party?  Now one can make the argument that the attack could have easily been foreseen, and that a prudent and smart man would avoid such activities...  but it's not the mans fault that the union thugs over reacted and beat him up.   More importantly do we really want people working for us as police officers who can so easily be baited into violating the law and the constitution?  Or do we want rational thinking officers who realize he's attempting to bait them into a trap, and instead go out of their way to avoid  while still protecting the public.   Officers could have more easily followed him around and watched him until he broke the law, which would have cost the taxpayers a lot less money than we're going to spend on this incident (even without a possible lawsuit).     

What rights is he defending if everything he is doing is legal? Anyone got an answer for that? I could walk around town telling every dude I see that I banged his wife last night as a way to exercise my free speech. Then, when one of them knocks me out I can sue them. Nothing I did was illegal, but then again, who said that it was? It would all be in poor taste and a generally douchey thing to do all in the name of making money in a subsequent lawsuit. This is what Voldemort is doing. Those of you comparing him to founding fathers are clearly allowing your dislike of authority to cloud your ability to use reason and logic. HOW IS WHAT LEONARD DID ANY DIFFERENT THAN THAT SCENARIO I POSTED???

  I have a whole lot of Libertarian in me. In this case, I would be just fine with them hitting Lenny between the eyes with a big black stick... 'cause he deserves it. I share your concerns about our constitutional rights too, but that shouldn't even come up in a conversation about Lenny. He's doing this for personal gain, and it's obvious to everybody. There won't be legions of lawyers showing up to debate both sides of the "Justice for Lenny" issue.   This little piece of theater is a sideshow, and won't generate anything meaningful. Lenny will wind up being bug juice on the windshield, again.

He will need to make a case that wrapping plastic around a gun and putting a lock on it makes it a case, or even if it does it was protected from search. I will agree though, it appears they knew who they had and they should have just got a warrant. Or, they could have decided they weren’t they wasting any more time with this idiot and did what they had to do to get him off the street. No cop in good conscience could let him walk away without checking that weapon. His HCP was revoked saying there was a likelihood of risk to the public, he was trying to make it clear to everyone that he was carrying a rifle, and he added the body armor for effect. There is no way I would have allowed him to continue if I were a cop. This threat was real. I don’t think law enforcement is banned from challenging and stopping an open threat.

All he had to do was show that the weapon wasn’t loaded. There was PC for a stop and there was PC to check the weapon. When a person can step out into the public carrying a rifle and dressed in body armor and the Police can’t stop him until he starts dropping bodies; the patients are truly in charge of the asylum. The Officer in the video was right. If they let him walk away, knowing full well that he was a nut case and a Judge had revoked his HCP because he believed him to be a potential danger, and he started shooting people; the public would be blaming the PD for not acting.

Who exactly is being a coward?  Do you think walking down a city street in body armor and an AR is being brave or "fighting" for anything (other than attention)?   From the standpoint of our laws we are where we are...bitching about them or pulling incredibly stupid stunts like this only harm, not help that situation.  There is a way go effect change, this kind of idiocy is not it (not that changing it is his motivation).

Should have given the dog to Kwik.

Kwik seems to be TGO's case of the clap. No matter what kind of shot this forum gets, it still has periodical outbreaks.

This "gentleman" is doing nothing but hurting the cause (our cause) by his attention seeking self centered behavior. I concur he needs a serious mental evaluation and mental health help. He's doing nothing but negatively impacting RESPONSIBLE gun owners with his outlandish behavior and attention getting stunts. Sad.

Agree or disagree with Voldemort, this is a terrible line of thinking. Laws do not give privileges, laws infringe on rights. The idea that we have to seek permission from the state to exercise natural rights is what got us into the sorry state we are in now.

Good motives????    :screwy:    If Leonard Embody is a "gun advocate" then I'm an flying unicorn. The only thing Embody is an advocate of is getting his name in the news and I suggest he has a serious mental condition that needs to be evaluated.   RESPONSIBLE gun owners and true advocates for our unalienable right to arms DO NOT BLATANTLY break the law nor do things that may be just shy of breaking the law just to get our names in the news.

What a freaking idiot. Body armor and a long gun walking in a crowded downtown area, it's a wonder sombody didn't take him for an active shooter and shot him. If something like that would have happened to that clown it would have been a justifable shooting. I'll argue for my 2nd.Amendment rights all day long but there's something mentally wrong with Embody, he's addicted to drama and confrontation and that's probably the least of his problems. If he gets charged with a suppressor and doesn't have a FFL, i'll assume that will be a felony and an end to all his 2nd Amendment rights. Now I disagree with the law on suppressors but i'm sure not going to rally for Embody's defense. Dude has a serious missfire in his brain.

If you owe it, the right thing to do is pay it regardless of your credit rating or not. 

Yes, especially a billing dept that doubles as a collection agency. 

I'm not much of a cruiser guy but I do like the Victory Cross Tour. Currently I ride an FJR for everything, touring included. IMO a cruiser for touring wouldn't be my choice, you are already limited on cornering clearance and if you load it down and double on it then you'd decrease that, unless you upgrade the suspension. Many do tour on them though and if so my choice would be the GW. Good buys out there on used ones GW's too.   Now, since you are now getting back on bikes and big heavy bike, including the GW or just about any cruiser may become imtiminating. Don't know your age, height and weight but it's going to be a bicth if you tip over a 600lb + bike while you're reviving that learning skill.  :-\   But, if your committed to a pig of the bike (including my FJR) you might consider an older GW and a smaller summer bike like a 650 V-Strom, NC700 or a K75 (which are steals today). For the price of a new bike you could have two but that may not go over well with SWMBO. Either way, make sure you get a back rest for whatever you buy.  :D

Grylls should only be watched for the entertainment factor, period. He does stupid and dangerous things that should not be attempted by a survivor. Just my 0.02

Just got my Kershaw back the day before, she's sharper now then when I first got it, WOooooo!!!

I am a big Glock fan. So I have been on a Glock forum for quite a few years (I am not going to name it out of repsect for the FEW nice members on that forum) . But I have got to tell you , that place is full of immature people acting like a bunch of kids. I go there to get ideas on my Glocks and seek out information that I can use for my Glocks and to help other Glock owners from my experiences. I am as nice as I can be but WOW , the people there are unbelieveable . I can get on here and ask a question and all responses are always respectable and curtious.  When I come here it is so relaxing and the members here have been so nice. I have bought guns from members here and sold to members here and I have never met a bad person at all. I dont know if it is because most of us are from the south or that all our members are just mature nice people. But I just wanted to share with you guys how nice of a forum this place is and glad that it hasnt turned out like other forums.

  ...or a brain

They don't arrest these rioters as they're burning cops cars, looting business and vandalizing government buildings. Why bother banning anything at all if they won't even arrest people who are openly committing violent crimes. Geez, makes you wonder how the government would ever handle a violent mob that was actually armed. A troop of Boy Scouts armed with .22s could overthrow a local government.

I have one of these. Yes, I'll wear it. Yes, I'll make sure liberals get to see it...

  High end liquor and cigar store.  One of these days.  ;)

Don't be shy, jump on in! I'll even start it for ya! Any use of SWAT/tactical/doorkicker/überHSLD/whatever by civilian law enforcement when there isn't the immediate danger of loss of innocent life is not only ill advised, it is an immoral and illegitimate act of war against the American public as a whole. :D

I hate to see people ruin anything really...humans are a wasteful species.

Ok, I'll bite...   First, can we agree that the vast majority of permit holders go to a target range less than once a year?  Can we also agree that they probably fire less than 100 rounds a year on average while practicing?  That target practice does little to help offset stress and adrenaline in a real self defense shooting?  Can we agree with these three things, when looking at your average HCP permit holder?   I contend with that level of training/practice it's nearly impossible to lock in the needed muscle memory to ensure that under stress they would remember to always disable an external safety - or for that matter know how to deal properly with the safety being accidently re-enabled during the course of a self defense shooting.     Also, you have to consider incidents where somebody else may need to operate your firearm in an emergency (a wife or family member for example), who has no training on the weapon in question (but may or may not have training of a different weapons platform)...  While you may have the needed muscle memory to disable the safety, in all likelihood they do not.   So, if you take two different average permit holders and place them in a self defense shooting...  one carrying a 92fs and another carrying a Glock 19, all things equal it's more likely that the Glock 19 goes bang.  If in the middle of that shooting a wife has to pickup and use that firearm with no training, it's even more likely to go bang for her.   IMHO all things considered, firearms with have external safeties, and firearms that do not have the same trigger pull everytime increase complexity and chances for cousin Murphy to come for a visit at the worse possible time.  For most shooters the goal is to do everything possible to keep cousin Murphy away.   So for your average HCP holder, they should pick a simple and reliable firearm to carry day to day, that has no external safeties, and has the same trigger pull every time the trigger is pulled...  There are other firearms that meet those requirements, but of the two choices the OP gave, the Glock 19 is hand downs the winner.   While it can be argued that with enough of the right practice and training you can overcome both of these limitations, the fact is the vast majority of permit holders aren't spending enough time at the range and taking active shooter classes to meet even the bare minimum standard to accomplish that task.   With all of that said, we're all big boys and girls here and you can buy whatever you want, but I personally think the risk of complications when the firearm is needed the most removes the 92fs and 1911's as a daily carry firearm for average permit holder.       

 Looking at my collection, I would select my Remington 521 and my Ruger Blackhawk .357/9mm convertible.   I am cheating, I know, buI I don't care.

 When the headline reads- "Man wanders downtown with AR-15 equipped with silencer" instead of, "Activist baits police into arresting him through noncooperation, ends up in jail."    My point was that the news venues aren't pushing the "he's an idiot angle" which makes Leonard look bad, they are pushing the "Ar-15s are evil" angle which makes a perfectly legal inanimate object look bad as well as reflecting badly on those of us who own guns, at least in most of the public's eyes.

  When we decide to do that, as a group, I suggest we pick a different leader. Voldemort ain't it.

Right now, in Tennessee we DO have to seek permission.  Carrying a loaded firearm on our person in public is a privilege under current law and we all need to remember that because if we don't remember that then we may do stupid things like this retard that gets the privilege further restricted.   I understand that the right to keep and bear arms is a RIGHT but in Tennessee; that right is not recognized; at least not really...it's going to take time and effort to restore the rights we are supposed to have but idiotic stunts such as those under the subject of this thread will NOT help us at best and likely only be to our detriment.

He, and the other open carry dumba$$ advocates who purposely stage it for a police response are doing us no favors. Laws give us privileges. Screw with the gray matter enough of any said law and someone will move to change it. Carry your gun, open or concealed, but quit looking for a fight with LE to become a news spectacle, because we all could lose in the end.

You can always surround your self with tread mills and thay can run them selves down , hahaha hahaha