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  I, being a fellow Christian, believe that people are making this into something it is not.  In no way would making a cake for a gay wedding be any sort of endorsement or acceptance of that union.  The baker is simply providing a service from his chosen profession.  Now, if the baker decided to give the cake away for free as a gift, then that would be a different story.   Every time religion becomes part of one's defense or argument, things become skewed.  What if the couple were not gay, but one of them was an adulterer or fornicator?  Would baking a cake for them somehow be an endorsement of their behavior?  Based on some responses I have read in this thread, the answer would be yes.  If this had been the case, would the baker have refused to make a cake?  Probably not.  Therefore, is it sin in general that is being frowned upon, or is it just a specific sin?  The reasoning I see so many people use at times on religious matters is often quite Pharisaical, and I believe that is one of the reasons so many have turned from the faith or view Christians with such disdain.   Personally, I think religion needs to stay out of this as it tends to muddy the waters.  The crux of the matter is simply: should the government be able to force a private business to provide a service to an individual or group of whom they have discriminated?  While it may not be popular, the answer is no.  I believe that people and private businesses should have the right to discriminate anyone for anything. The only time discrimination should be disallowed is when we are dealing with a government entity. In almost all other cases we should let the free markets handle it.  I know this is not reality, but it is my view on the way things should be.

This. This. A thousand times this. I don't support the baker's refusal of service. What I do support is his right to make that refusal.

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/12/99867-u-s-air-force-band-goes-flash-mob-smithsonian-delight-visitors/

You know what the second use was for a Sears & Roebuck catalog was.

Hey I've got some tarp, we could hit the junkyard and start a business. Fat Ass Armor, "we cover your butt, all of it".

And folks would still think he had the right to refuse service no matter what their emotions. That's what you and others don't get. It isn't about what is subjectively right and wrong, it's about not using the government as a bully to force people to bow to your subjective views of right and wrong.

You guys didn't get the memo? Disagreement equals hate/racism.

The ignorance and hate in this thread is amazing especially from some of yall who claim to be "Christians". Nothing more than a bunch of hypocrites.

Folks, one of my most enjoyable hobbies is the making and smoking of Hams, Bacons and Sausages of all kinds. In the summer of 2012 I carried some Wild Boar Bacon to east TN for a TGO get together and thought a fight was going to break out over the last piece! It was fun! Those that have been following my posts on the other hunting threads know that I haven't hunted lately due to the cold and now ice. So, I have been manning the "smoke house" making Bacon, Buckboard Bacon and Canadian Bacon. I would like to share a few pics... Here's a few slabs... Canadian Bacon on the left and slab bacon on the right Final cuts ^ ^ ^ Bacon Buckboard Bacon Canadian Bacon Cooked for testing... And yes...it is freaking awesome!!!! Dave

  I say it almost that way.  I always say, "I couldn't care less."  :)

So? The point of the thread is the baker's right to refuse service, not who finds it offensive. Different people find different things offensive... is that what you're pointing out? What a revelation! The big issue the adults here have is the government becoming involved and enforcing other people's petty emotions.

Constitutionally protected rights are not subject to the tyranny of unchecked emotion.

As fat as I am, they probably don't make them in my size. I'm sure I could fashion one out of a tarp and a couple truck hoods.

If you remember using 8 track/LPs and cassettes.  if you had Atari 2600 and commodore 64. Reminded when spell check doesn't know Atari is a word.

.....when "3 on the tree" meant something other than Obama, Pelosi  and Reid........ :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

when you tell someone how old you are twice and are wrong both times  :rofl:

  Well, people talk a lot about Marshal Law, too. :)   - OS

I can't speak for other religions but I believe Christianity tells us to be compassionate to sinners and help them turn from their sin. I may be wrong but nowhere in the bible does it tell us to encourage sinful acts or to facilitate sinful deeds. I believe making a cake for a gay wedding would go against God's word and thus the owner was justified in not making the cake.

The deer poaching comment was a lighthearted attempt to translate the concept using a metaphor I thought would be relatable to you. I think any game warden would call boy driving just as guilty of poaching as the boy who did the shooting. Right? If one has a religious objection to homosexuality/gay marriage then to facilitate that would make one guilty as well. Here is different example. I have a friend of mine that works at another location of the same pharmacy chain I do. He is devoutly Catholic and the Church's teaching is that the use birth control is a sin. He does not handle BC pills and especially avoids the morning after pills because to facilitate someone else using them and committing a sin, he would be guilty of the sin of "scandal". (This is how it was explained to me by my friend, if any Catholics on the board are able to offer correction to something I have wrong, please do so. ) As far as the baker being part of what's wrong with the country I would counter that some folks inability to let others live life as they choose without demanding that everyone act and think like they do is a far more problematic issue. Really, how hard is it to go, "Oh, you don't want to bake us a cake, photograph our ceremony or rent us your facility*? Ok. We will take our money elsewhere." *All items that private individuals and in the last example, a church were sued over for declining to provide service to a gay wedding.

    except the liquor store has no say over being closed on Sunday.  Sue the state legislature who has decided certain businesses can't set their own hours.

Waiting on a barrel...

"Hey, Bob! I how's the new job at the gas station?"   "What job, Bill? I'm not working at the gas station."   "Huh. Somebody told me you was pumpin' ol' Ethyl..." :rofl:  :rofl: 

I love that they are still calling pass plays over the middle.  !?   Edit.... and catching them!!!  Did you see Calvin Johnson's facemask when he got up!?   That is a football player.

Take it easy there, little tyke. I was pointing out what the adults are talking about, not what their opinions are. The grown ups here are talking about the government involvement, not "feelings" of what is right and wrong.

When a 29 year old posts to this thread. :(

I just got a black Turner national match in 54" length. Traded my neighbor for it. My wife made him a pan of brownies. His wife is in Missouri while he finishes up here at ORNL and never gets homemade food so I'd call it a good trade. Tapatalk ate my spelling.

for many mango seasons i stored ammo many different ways. i.e. in the factory box, in plastic ammo boxes, in coffee cans (metal and plastic), loose in socks, loose in plastic bags, factory boxes in ammo cans, plastic boxes in ammo cans, loose in ammo cans.  right now for me the best way is loose in army ammo cans and plastic coffee cans. less space for storage.  you can put a can anywhere and it does not take up much space.  i do not store ammo in the gun safe.  ammo storage is a hot topic, everybody has their own way.  i got some ammo that started with me in west texas in the 70's and moved to south florida, moved to washington dc, then to southeast tennessee and it lived outside in a storage building and/or garage.  some in the factory box.  this ammo is just as good as day one and still goes bang.  don't over think ammo storage.   

When your 30th birthday was 28 years ago!   Dave

I have had this happen to me a few times using ballistic tip ammo. I do not use it anymore because of this reason. It may work well for others but not for me. I have never ever ever had any run that far when using soft points or interbond bullets (98% drop in their tracks or just make it 10 yards or so). I shoot a 300 Weatherby magnum now and that 9 pointer I shot this year dropped in his tracks. I was using Remington core-lokt. I do understand each deer is different and reacts differently when shot but they usually act the same way when hit with a good soft point, which is DRT lol.

When you could buy a firearm from the back of a magazine.

...when you tell someone to roll up the window and they start pushing buttons..... ...when you tell that same someone that the high beam switch used to be on the floor board...

When you're the only person in a room who knows what an abacus is lol

Everyone is this country, regardless of whatever issue they have (age, sex, race, religion, same sex, no sex, makes no difference), deserves to be treated as equally and as fairly as the person who walked in the store before them, and the same as the guy who comes in behind them. The good ol' USA is going to hell in a hand basket! Why should any of us care if two dudes want to get married and buy a wedding cake...sell them one for crying out loud!     Dave

I find it exceedingly "funny" that the tolerant people aren't as tolerant as they profess to be...when did a freaking cake become a court case? seriously?

You're just jealous it wasn't yours. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Ya build one fence and no one calls ya a fence builder....

i need a tylenol...

Good times. . my take on 3 sets of idiots. . .   The Baker: "They're Gay Im not serving them casue Im a Christian".  .really? Where in the teachings of Jesus does it say point out each others sins. . compare and ostricize each other according their popularity. . Jesus spent more time with whores. . lepers and the other then perceived dregs of society than he ever did trying to lead the people in the temple . . why? I suspect because there was more to salvage with them  than with the self rightious pharisees in the temple who spent more time making sure everyone knew their place as apposed to loving and caring for your fellow man. . which by the way is the prime directive for dealing with each other. The holy Bible is wonderful tool to teach a man how to live. . but when people or the baker in this case use it to tell someone else how to live. . thats how it becomes a center for hate and despite. . shame on him. . this is the book definition of taking the lords name in vain. .Your gay. . Im better than you the bible says so. . look at me and how moral I am. . .absolutely disgusting. .   The gay people. . really? he wont make me a cake Im gonna sue. . Yes he completely misses the point and damages what he professes to serve. . just walk away. . granted I dont personally celebrate the lifestyle. .but I understand your plight. . I know for a fact that I have been discriminated against because Im fat. .which in my case is a choice. . I like me some groceries. . I went to work once in the early nineties for a pressure washing service. . I had applied once before.  .but was not considered for the job. . after I worked a few months the owner apologized and told me your one of the best workers Ive ever had.  .Im sorry. .  he said. . I didnt hire cause your big and I thought you would be lazy . . .It was his problem not mine. . He had to discover that for hisself. .   The judge. . .do you think you can regulate someones prejudices or belief system. . even if it is as obviously perverted as the bakers. . . youve got better things to do.  .people who want to hate or discriminate against anyone for any reason are gonna do it. . if you try to make them accept them or serve them. . they will just hate and discriminate in the dark. .the results will be the same . .   And lastly dont compare this douchebag baker to hobby lobbies fight with obama care. . I couldnt care less where another man sticks his hoo hoo dilly. . but trying to make me pay for the wanton murder of unborn children as a form of birth control is another matter. . .

Ha! I can tell you are still kinda new around here. At least every couple of months we have a thread about the gays that goes long and strong and just when you think it has petered out it rises again for another round of flogging.

   Yes but it ended up traveling the length of her. She was quartering towards me and the bullet went in the right shoulder and somehow came out the left ham. The angle I shot her at should have put the bullet coming out just behind the left shoulder but I either misjudged the angle of the bullet got trapped in the rib cage causing a change of direction. It was absolutely devastating to every organ in her.       Oh i'm not blaming anything on the caliber at all. This was nothing short of amazing that she made it anywhere at all so you are probably right on the fluke part. I was using a Nosler 125 like you mentioned having and I am not the least bit scared to use them again. Bottom line is it is a 30cal bullet traveling very fast so I expect much better results when shooting a deer that isn't on meth like this one must have been. 

Most places right now are pretty darn expensive and is surely taking advantage of the facts that we can't hunt hogs statewide now.   Dave

    The dimmer switch should never have been moved from the floorboard, by the way.      I think that's another sign that I may be old? Now, get off my damned lawn. 

  I understand. I've just been lucky with my Caldwells, I guess. Budget isn't a problem for me, other than the fact that it's never quite as big as my list :). I'm a rifle guy, so profile is a big deal to me. Anyway, I'm anything but cheap. I'll take another look at the Peltor stuff

There was a thread a while back where CA Willard inquired to the ATF about it. They responded with it being good to go. Soldiers stationed there can purchase/sell in KY, TN and their home of record.

... you remember Grandpappy Amos, and Little Luke, and Kate, and Pepenis.

That’s home invasion. They are a whole different breed of criminal from a burglar and I can tell you from responding to the aftermath; you better be able to put a loaded functioning gun in your hand in seconds.

this sounds like when if i shoot a black person in self defense it gets labeled a hate crime but if a black thug beats me and shouts cracker etc its not a hate crime when it really is

Regardless of what one thinks, doesn't think, cares or doesn't care about Paul Walker, Nelson Mandela was a communist revolutionary who was good buddies with the like of Castro, Chavez and mostly backed by the Soviet Union...Mandela did seek peace when he could have sought conflict and caused the death of thousands or hundreds of thousands in South Africa and that is extremely commendable but once you get past that I think there is much to not like about the man. Now, not knowing who he was may well be part of "what is wrong with the world" but I think there are better, more positive examples that could be used in the above comparison than Mandela.

Take the order, make a really awful tasting cake.  Or tell them you can't make the cake because you're too busy.  I get that the tolerance issue in America is well beyond out-of-control, but why would you invite such a scenario on yourself by telling them you won't serve because they are gay.  There's been enough of this crap in the news lately to know how it will play out. 

Mine shoulda been delivered yesterday or today; it went out Friday. I could do without a nice gift if the whole thing just goes the way it should and we don't get the dead beat douche bags like last year. ......then again, management being what it is here, those D-bags got banned, rightfully so. Happy Christmas TGO.