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I used to try to carve out room for capital punishment in extreme cases where there was no shadow of doubt. But, that "shadow of doubt" is an interesting phrase. It's interesting how many of the exonerations I've read about left none at the time - after all to be convicted of a capital crime, that's the burden - you must convince a jury of 12 peers unanimously that there is no shadow of doubt. But then a witness recants. Or a witness comes forward to having been pressured to tell a particular version of a story in exchange for a deal. Or evidence is withheld. Or forensic or lab results are tainted. Or whatever... The list simply goes on and on. With all of that, I'm with Capbyrd that I simply do not trust my government to only apply the death penalty to perpetrators of heinous crimes. But, I'll also expand on the rest of my thought process a bit - as it's evolved over the years. As a person who believes that none of us are the worst versions of ourselves - that has to expand to believing that no one is only the product of worst thing they've ever done. Sometimes actions have immediate consequences. If you get shot by a homeowner as you threaten their family - well, sometimes big actions have big consequences. But, a redemptive and restorative philosophy of incarceration means that we seek justice - and realize that it may in fact take a long time. There are some people that should probably never be let out of jail. I'm sure there are some that would choose to be put to death as opposed to spending the rest of their natural life in prison. There are no easy answers. But, I'm convinced as a civil society that capital punishment shouldn't be a part of it.

This is utterly disheartening and simultaneously rage inducing.

Just a reminder to do like your mama taught you - and play nice. We can certainly disagree with one another - but doing so should follow the same rules as it would if it were to happen at the dinner table. Be respectful, be prepared to back up your arguments, and avoid personal attacks. Otherwise, don't be surprised when people quit inviting you to dinner...

congrats, if you ever need parenting advice from someone without kids, just shoot me a message!

Giving the state the ability to kill anyone is a mistake.

This thread has caused me to reconsider my support of the death penalty. Some people definitely deserve to die but not at the hands of a system that continues to lock up innocent people. Its not worth the risk.

FIFY!

If anyone else showed up with a gun and demanded you turn over your cash, it would called armed robbery. Without actual criminal charges and a conviction, it should be no different with a badge. If it's drug money, convince a DA to press charges and then prove it in court. I also agree that the seizing agency shouldn't get a dime of it. It creates way too much conflict of interest. I know that would remove a huge tool in the DEA's arsenal for going after drug runners, but the cost to our civil liberty is just too great, IMO.

Maybe we could carpool over there and at least get some Central Barbecue with Chucktshoes after it's done.

Believe me Mac I can understand completely your stance on this and I also have given it a ton of thought and it is hard for me to see trusting any Judge, jury or Prosecutor to produce all of their evidence to the Defense so a fair trial can be held. Now I will let my problem known what scares the hell out of me about life in prison without the possibility of parole. Back for those of you folks that remember a Governor named Ray Blanton. I don't know how many people knew his plans for the night before he left office but he planned on signing pardons and paroles for people in prison. On the list was about 12 or more murders and two in particular where professional hit men partners that killed a doctors wife for him while he was out of country and when he learned it was done the doctor got scare and feared them that he hired so he ratted them out if he could avoid prosecution. He set them up to be caught. Because the authorities wanted these 2 killers off the streets they made the deal. Blanton was going to Pardon these 2 guys along with several other really bad guys that had bought their way out! I learned about this years later while talking with a retired investigator that was one of the ones that took Blanton down. It is things like this that make me not trust putting men like this in prison for life instead of putting them on death row. President Obama pardoned a bunch of people just before he left office. I don't know what crimes they had committed but the fact is it was done. For those of you that don't know who Ray blanton was you can read about him in the link below.That is what scares the hell out of me is some crazy politician turning a bunch of these crazy people back out of prison. They cannot pardon anyone on death row!!! http://themoderatevoice.com/tennessee-governor-blanton-the-most-mischievous-of-mischief-makers/

Man, just slap a sign on the house, put out a donation box and go ahead and make it a museum. I'd pay $10 to go see all that...

Worth considering in this argument - though it could be a thread in it's own right. This article in the Times this morning mentions that of the 166 exonerations in 2016, 70 involved government or prosecutorial misconduct. The case cited involves Shelby County District Attorney Amy Weirich - regarding a case that set her on her upward trajectory politically... https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/08/01/magazine/she-was-convicted-of-killing-her-mother-prosecutors-withheld-the-evidence-that-would-have-freed-her.html?referer=https://t.co/mlRL0Wmk5v?amp=1

Let's not forget that were it not for the efforts of WREG, the department/DA would have never admitted to the screwup.

Two months ago we welcomed this young patriot into the world. Last week one of my best friends in the world got back from his first deployment with the absolute elite of the elite SF in the Army. He brought this home for my son, and I won't lie about it...I choked up. This little fella has made me all kinds of soft. This flag represents all that I think is great about our country, and is easily my most prized possession. I hope I raise this young patriot to love this country half as much as the steely eyed freedom fighter that faced our enemies under this flag in Syria. Caption on flag reads: "This flag was flown by the first American forces to enter and assault Raqqa, Syria on 14 June 2017. It was raised to honor and celebrate the birth and lifelong freedom of Wyatt Patrick. OPPRESSORS BEWARE"

You never know, guys. I've been to a couple of auctions in the last couple of years and left with stuff I never dreamed I'd own for a song. One thing is for certain. You won't get a bargain if you don't go.

Congrats. That is great news. Now for some advice you can use. Go take pictures of all your tools, guns, fishing rods and other toys you may own. They will not be yours for long after Feb. LOL

Apparently this was a gentleman of exquisite taste. If anyone does go to the auction you might want to put on your Sunday go-to-meetin' clothes, lol. I bet the trains are cool as the old guns. Just imagine being able to put all your stuff out on display to admire anytime you like.

Personally, I believe that once a citizen provides proof that he or she is legally carrying then, without strong probable cause, at the very least, an officer should have no more right to disarm the citizen than the citizen has to request that the officer leave his or her firearm in the patrol car. As a citizen, I don't know the person who is approaching me and just because he or she is wearing a uniform doesn't mean I won't end up 'accidentally' shot. My life and my right to feel safe and secure in my life is every bit as important as an officer's so as long as I haven't given the officer probable cause to suspect I will do him/her harm then if I have to disarm for our conversation then the officer should have to disarm, as well. Luckily, instead of disarming a legally armed citizen I think/hope most officers would reasonably say, "Well, you leave yours in your holster, I will leave mine in my holster and we won't have a problem."

Dunkirk at the IMAX is on my calendar for tomorrow night.

Seizing money based solely on suspicion is ridiculous.

Now they do it because someone thinks they might be involved in loaf larceny. http://articles.latimes.com/1993-04-18/local/me-24209_1_forfeiture-law

A little harsh with the accusations there aren't we? While mostly unhinged, we do try to express some level of respect for each other on the board. This is one of the few places on the internet that is *nearly* troll-free.

Sometimes folks wish for a sarcasm font to ensure clarity of their statements. Sometimes that would be wholly superfluous. We've been here for about the same amount of time, so I will assume my views on law enforcement tactics and culture are not unknown to you. If you choose to dismiss what I have to say here because of that, so be it. However having been here as long as you have I will also assume that you are aware of how little tolerance TGODavid has for random and needless cop bashing. This is not that, because if it was I would imagine he would have stepped in long before now to handle matters as he, or other members of the moderating team are wont to do when it becomes an issue. I can think of many folks who received suspensions and permanent bans for cop bashing. This incident happened here in our state. The victim and the perpetrators are our neighbors, fellow Tennesseeans. Therefore this is a matter of great interest and concern for all of us. It is an important and relevant matter worthy of discussion. I know you're in LE, though I don't know the agency. I really hope your dismay at this discussion is due to fatigue from having heard so much about it already from your CoC and not at finding valid and justified criticism and anger at folks who abused the authority and trust placed in them. (I also hope that every LE agency in the state is emphasizing that this sort of behavior is wholly unacceptable because the alternative to that is wholly unacceptable.) I know that it's been a rough time for LE lately (and in the last couple of weeks especially) as a lot of negative stories have come to light recently that reflect badly on the profession. While the topic may be unpleasant for you, it is of merit and I think that if you chose to do so, you could add value to the discussion.

I'm not arguing with you, but it seems like that should be a kick in the ass to the public to start getting some better people in uniform.

No one deserves to be treated like that. When you lose sight of a person's humanity, that ought to be a good indication that you need to find another career.

She needs to just go ahead and Sue them for false arrest etc. because their apology does not even the score. She probably wont get anything but she can inconvenience them to the point they did her.

Are there any markings at all on the rail? Can you post a picture of the full rail? It looks familiar but I'd like a full view before I start looking at some of the options.

Drive home? Who's going to drive the car off the lot. Hell, for that matter, who's going to walk you to the car?

I'd bet that if we played our cards right we could hit Central, the BBQ shop and Germantown Commissary all in one day. Somebody else is going to have to drive home, though...

sometimes they make it hard to be on their side....just sayin'

Indeed. I loved the flying sequences.

Wow is right! Though.... when I see stuff like this I have to wonder what the family's thought process is. That's more than enough stuff to make a fine museum collection that could be enjoyed by many for years to come. But now it'll just get scattered to the wind. It's certainly theirs to do with as they please, but it makes me kinda sad.

That is what every single officer who has ever asked if I was armed said when they ran my DL (and saw that I had a permit).

I'm not moved to be against it yet, but I've long held that it should only be used for heinous crimes when there's zero doubt of guilt and innocence. Get a conviction beyond reasonable doubt, but only have execution on the table when it's beyond the shadow of a doubt. We wrongly convict too many people to use it in any other way.

In most cases, that's where I land too. In this case, it's hard to feel that way after the Sheriff said what he said. Maybe it is a systemic problem in the whole department. I'm not saying every deputy. I'm saying something's wrong with the department, their hiring practices, their training materials and methods, their procedures, their patrol guide, etc. If what those deputies did was within department policy, then that's a serious problem which starts at the top.

Yea it's a 7 shot 357. I've got a TRR8 as well, the 8 shot it awesome. No moon clips on this one though. I've been searching for Smiths to keep me from shooting my python too much.

That is SEXY!

As Dolomite previously pointed out, the city or county or whoever will have insurance to cover any settlement that is reached. They weren't 60 miles outside of their jurisdiction. At least that's my understanding. A TN POST certified officer can operate anywhere within the state boundaries. I could be wrong about that but I've been told that by several officers. None of what you said makes a bit of difference. No amount of backstory or anything else changes the fact that they are torturing a man who is restrained.

Forget the evidence that taking a case all the way from trial to death row to the execution chamber is way more expensive than maintaining a prisoner for life without parole. Forget the moral arguments - for or against the death penalty. With the exonerations we've seen over the last few years regarding new evidence, tainted forensics and dishonest prosecutions, I simply do not trust our government to kill people. Again, there are people who should almost certainly spend the rest of their days where they cannot do harm to the rest of the population. But, even in those cases I'd argue against the death penalty. At some point it's not about them - it's about us as a society.

I hope that in my lifetime we see a more jurisdictions move to a view of restorative justice as opposed to the punitive vision that most use today. If from nothing other than a pragmatic perspective - what we've got now clearly isn't working. From a faith perspective - which informs a lot of my thought on the matter - if we believe people can be redeemed, then our prisons need to model that, too. Yes, there are people who need to be in jail. But, there are a lot of people who should not - and their families and communities are suffering systemically as a result. North Dakota is trying an interesting model right now: http://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2017/07/north-dakota-norway-prisons-experiment/

We install a lot of safes in garages and just use 2 strips of hardwood about the size of a yardstick but thicker. These are placed on each side of the safe running front to back and trimmed to depth. These strips allow a little airflow under the safe which is all that's needed to prevent moisture from wicking up from the concrete. Generally, the older the concrete, the less moisture, but it's always good to raise the safe a bit. I wouldn't raise it much more than 3/8" as this would allow the bad guys more room to get a pry bar started if they were so inclined. Putting the safe on a rubber mat works as long as the garage or building is climate controlled. If it's not, then there are a few times a year where we have temperature inversions and everything sweats. Then moisture runs down the safe and will pool at the bottom which could cause some issues. With the strips, the moisture has a chance to dry out. We use these strips to protect hardwood and tile floors as well so that the safe never touches the floor. I would imagine that The Safe House takes care of all this for their customers. They're a good outfit.

Normally I would agree but I can't see how it would make a difference in this case. He was essentially tied to a chair. Why taser him repeatedly?

Good film. Tom Ford and Mark Rylance deliver great performances as always. Dogfight scenes are thrilling. Like most war films there is an antiwar message to be discerned. It passed my test in that I never looked at my watch. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you carry a gun, you will get treated like a criminal, regardless of whether you are or not. She should be able to sue, and win and be compensated for lost wages, any attorney fees, defamation of character, and whatever else her attorney can think of. This is ridiculous.

The officer should of issued a summons, instead of arresting her..its not like she was going anywhere. In the mean time the SN and her story could of been confirmed. At this point, an apology and reimbursement for all legal fees, lost wages/profit and inconvenience should be made.

She needs to be reimbursed for any attorney fees that she might have ensued even if she doesn't sue.

I understand the training to interact with armed citizens I don't feel that's the same thing I meant. I was referring to the need to add training on how to interact with legally armed citizens. Reciprocate the training given to legally armed citizens. Give both sides the same training so everyone knows what to do and expect. I'd bet, if you could find it, the odds of being shot drop like a rock as to how many times an LEO is shot by a legally armed citizen. That fact should calm down a nervous cop because he knows now, he's very likely not in danger instead of the other way around. As far as the Castille case. I don't know what happened. I did read it was stated that the LEO asked him for his ID and that was what he was reaching for. I do agree that if Castille was told to at some point to stop and raise his hands, that's what he should have done. Again, I don't know what happened. I still think proper and calm communication on both sides would go a long way.

I don't see the need. I've never had HCP holder even now with vehicle carry be a problem. It is typically the unlawful possession ones imagine that!

I think this is one of those films that deserves the big-screen treatment for full enjoyment. And, concealed means concealed.