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We are done here . I will not reopen this thread. Maybe you guys can report me and find another that will but I doubt it. We have all expressed our views on this, some of us dozens of times, so there is nothing more to see. If you want to find out how someone feels about this go back to the begining and start reading again.   And sventvkg if you decide to start bashing cops on here you will find your stay here will be short lived. I am one of the more critical members of bad officers, go ahead and search on here, there is plenty of evidence on here. With that being said I will not allow you or anyone else to lump all those who are doing good in with the bad few. Not every officer is bad and as a matter of fast the vast majority are just the opposite. How do I know? Because I have worked in LE as well as continue to do what I can to help those that are trying to do good. I have been responsible for the firing of bad officers. But I have also seen good officers loose their career over some ficticious complaint.   Again, we are done here.   Dolomite

You folks have no idea what youre talking about. Unless youve served as a police officer, you have absolutely no clue. Its nothing like tv or the movies. Come back when youve got law enforcement experience or actually studied law anywhere besides google. You may not like it, but it is what it is. Get over it. I have never... seen so many mal-interpretations of the law in my entire life. You can have all the opinions you want. Looks like career day in kindergarten to me.

I go commando.   It's the only tactical way.

Just thought I'd mention something. The feds don't need a youth DHS army to take over the country considering there are already thousands of federal LEOs and military members who have access to all sorts of fantastic weapons and vehicles. Does FEMA have some magical power to brainwash young minds that exceeds the ability of the US military to brainwash 18-21 year olds? This is nothing more than conspiratorial hogwash. Yes, DHS bought a bunch of ammo. So what? DHS includes many more agencies than FEMA. Immigration and Customs and the Border Patrol, the US Secret Service, the US Coast Guard, the Federal Law Enforcement Training Centers, and the Federal Air Marshals are all under DHS and obviously need guns and ammunition for their duties and training. Also, let me address this silly Obama Youth Brigade hand gesture thing. I have studied World War II history as an armchair historian, and genocide as an academic endeavor. Never have I seen any photo of the Hitler Youth using the hand gesture shown in the picture associated with Obama. Never. In fact, the only picture I have seen is the close-up of the hands used as a comparison. However, I can find plenty of pictures of Hitler Youth using the standard Nazi salute (which was also used by American school children to salute the American flag when the Pledge of Allegiance was introduced to American society by Francis Bellamy, a socialist). So what we have here is the absence of a single photo or propaganda poster that displays this alleged hand gesture. None. Please feel free to do your own research and try to prove me wrong, but I think you'll be hard pressed to find any photo or propaganda poster that shows this alleged hand gesture. The photo showing this alleged Hitler Youth hand gesture did appear in the Heinrich Hoffman books and and was credited as being a photo of Hitler's own hands during a speech. It can be seen about 3/4 down the page on this website that shows photos of the books' contents: <a href="http://www.germaniainternational.com/hitler23.html">http://www.germaniainternational.com/hitler23.html</a> Regardless, the comparison between this and the Obama "sign of progress" thing where the hands are supposed to make a letter O for his last name, is simply a fabrication of the conspiratorial right-wing blogosphere. It wouldn't surprise me if Glenn Beck or Alex Jones came up with it single handedly to create this very effect. In other news, do know that the Obama administration is currently training members of the Civil Air Patrol to fly black helicopters. They are starting them young too. This website shows them being trained to do tactical repelling into your home in the event of a government takeover. Video proof! <a href="http://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/cap_home/teens/">http://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/cap_home/teens/</a><br /> Also, I have just found photographic evidence to prove that Ronald Reagan was actually a communist and admirer of Muammar Gaddafi:

It's sad that people died in this and I know it was a "gun free" zone but I keep reading people's testimonies of stuff like, "I felt so helpless" and "All I could do was hide and cry, and pray" and I just can't wrap my brain around why people choose to continue to feel this way. My brain just doesn't work that way. If you don't want to feel helpless do something about it! If you don't want to be stuck peeing yourself in a corner, just waiting to be slaughtered, do something about it! I'm not saying I'd be the guy to chase after the gunman but I sure as heck wouldn't make myself an easy target if he got between me and the door. Sorry for the rant. It just gets my goat to see all these people with the "woe is me" attitudes and that there's nothing they can do about it. Arm yourselves!

Multiple males in a vehicle late at night could be a pretty good reason to feel it necessary to disarm; I get that. But as a SOP for every stop is clearly not the intention of the law. I'm not arguing with a cop over it, but I would still be concerned about someone unfamiliar with my weapon taking it and unloading it. Not every LEO is a weapons expert.

Then why do any of you carry a gun? The chances are you will never need it. Most citizens are law abiding and not going to bother you. I can’t believe this “HCP holders live at the foot of the cross BS.” The state of Tennessee does not recognize your right to carry a gun in your car; it is a crime in this state. I doubt the courts will ever rule against a cop disarming someone on a traffic stop. Sue??? For disarming someone on traffic stop….. Let us know how that works for you. I support our Police Officers and they job and they do. If they feel the need to disarm someone on a traffic stop our legislature has given them the green light to do that. I thank our legislature for that and hope that our courts would never turn their backs on our Police Officers safety.

On the grounds that I may incriminate myself, I am going to exercise my 5th Amendment right and not answer that question. ;)

I've read every post on this thread, and I still do not see the big deal about an officer disarming someone for the safety of all concerned. To the fellow who keeps refering to rangers as "squirrel chasers" (or whatever the phrase is you used)...thank you! I never heard that one before! I'll share it with my co-workers for sure.   If an officer suspects you may be under the influence of alcohol or drugs (maybe why the stop was made to begin with),( oh wait, people with HCP's don't drink and drive while carrying a handgun), you are going to get disarmed, field tested and (if applicable) taken to jail.   I don't think disarming everyone is the answer. But, before I stop you...please tell me a little about yourself. Who are you? What kind of day are you having? Are you wanting to commit homicide? Suicide? Are you on your way to the mall? Theatre? School? Office, because you just lost your job? I don't know you bud...But I plan on doing everything I can to make sure I go home to my family.   Oh yeah...one more thing. Ask the next LEO who stops you how his or her day is going? I wonder how many of you who are bashing LEO's on here have ever called the police, ranger or game warden for assistance? That LEO didn't fail to ever show up, and maybe he put his life on the line for you. Why are we all acting like a bunch little kids? Some of ya'll are crying over spilled milk! Let's all grow up and appreciate the job that our police, fire and EMS does! Maybe next time you need a cop...think about this thread and whinning over being disarmed, call a plummer instead!   No personal attack here...just my :2cents:! It wouldn't bother me one bit if this thread got locked. I'm starting to get that PO'd twitch in my jaw muscles, watching all of us grown men fuss'n with each other!   Good evening...   Dave S

How would anyone know? I’ve taken a bunch of drunk drivers off the street, I’ve handled a lot of domestic violence calls, and I’ve kept a lot of people alive at an accident scene until the paramedics arrived. How many crimes have I prevented or how many lives have I saved?

No, but Spock was. And so are the Village People:

Well, I hope you never become a victim of a crime because you'll look silly calling the police to come help......

I know, Unless you put body armor on to go to work everyday and risk your life some people will never or will never choose to understand.  This thread will be a no win and it should be shut down already.

This is the symbol we gestured to the opposing team in high school to suggest they were p***ies. So, we were Hitler Youth all along? Damn. Looks like I have to stop making all those master race holocaust jokes about my German wife.

All threads on a gun forum, if continued long enough, will eventually morph into 9 v 45, Glock v 1911, AR v AK or all three.

...yet you seem to have no problem attributing this to anyone with a badge pinned to their chest? It defies logic to me.

If you are going to argue amongst yourselves take it to PM's or I will lock the thread to save some hurt feelings. Dolomite

    Yeah, look below that one. The best comment yet:   [quote]Yo dawg, I heard you like tanks so I put a tank game in your tank so you can drive a tank while you're driving your tank. [/quote]

You can always find a reason, I’m not saying that it wouldn’t be lack of maintenance or caused by Bubba deciding he’s qualified to do a trigger job or modify the FCG. I’m not saying that is what happened in this case, I’m just saying my experience with mechanical devices doesn’t allow me the same absolute certainty that a gun can’t fire without a negligent act that you have. I’m not arguing with you; you may well be right. I hope this Xmas season this serves as a reminder that you just can’t be careful enough. It’s a shame this young boy had to die. And I can’t even imagine what his family; especially his Father is going through. Please clear those weapons after removing a magazine and use extreme care handling a loaded firearm.

Yeah, sometimes I leave the toilet seat up and forget to roll the windows up on my truck. I've never had an ND or exposed my kid to a life threatening danger. I know, crazy. I must be in the minority. Having an ND into a child is a pretty big effing deal. That isn't a mistake; that is a catastrophic failure that is inexcusable.

Yuup...it's all part of a grand conspiracy.   I mean, it can't possibly have anything to do with a cop, alone, walking up to a vehicle with a person or person in it that he doesn't know at all and has no real idea if this person(s) is just a fellow driving a little fast or if he's just come from beating or killing his girlfriend or he's just be fired from his job and is looking for a way to vent his frustrations at life. Just because a guy has an HCP is not a guarantee that won't be a problem or won't send an officer home at room temperature.   There are REAL issues of diminishing and vanishing personal liberty...but a LEO disarming a person at a traffic stop is not one of those issues; especially when it's handled politely and respectfully.

Try that out for us and let us know will you. ;)

[quote name='Hershmeister' timestamp='1355018353' post='857052'] It gives you ironclad guarantee that you met the legal requirements and can assist the popo if needed. [/quote] What legal requirements are those? All that's required is that you don't have reason to believe that the buyer can't legally own it, don't suspect a straw purchase, and they're a TN resident. I wouldn't use "ironcald" to describe a BOS, or anything else printed off the Internet. If you want "ironclad" do it via FFL. Nothing short of that comes close.

As a general rule of principle I won't do a BOS. It is always a good idea to let people know up front that is your requirement. Many don't enjoy that sprung on them after the fact. ooh, and NO private individual is getting a copy of my DL. You want to act like a business and keep personal info, get an ffl and comply correctly with the BATF's rules. I'm more concerned about privacy issues. IMO, I can't see how a BOS does anything more for you legally than a verbal declaration.

I'm beginning to wonder if the GOP isn't on all tiers trying to force a third party.   - OS

  Well, it would absolutely stop criminals from buying guns from law abiding people, and narrow a criminal's choices to buying from other criminals.   Of course, there are no stats, but it's simple logic that someone who can't legally buy a gun from FFL can buy them from individuals. Lord knows if I were prohibited and wanted guns,  first place I'd go is a gun show, where there's a vast smorgasbord of choices and the prices are the same for a guy on the lam as they are for anyone else.   Of course, I'm one of those who believe that as long as a guy ain't in prison or serving probation, he should be able to purchase firearms. Period. Which would leave only the pool of yet uncaught criminals. :) But that's another discussion. That has no consensus.   - OS

It's as enforceable as 21 to buy liquor. Nothing really stops it except the possibility of it coming back to bite the seller and bite hard. How many of us would really risk federal felony charges to avoid an FFL transfer and to save a few bucks on an otherwise legal sale?

As a non-American Citizen..I had to take at least 1 extra step when I got  my HCP in TN..And I gladly did that so I could carry. And they took my fingerprints before this plenty of times for one thing or another. I really could care less   Maybe I do look at things differently than most because I am not a US Citizen(yet).. I look at a lot of things as a privilege..not a burden or as infringement... 

I used this Blackhawk and I use a walker to get around LOL.

Interesting that you are offended by people questioning the authority of police but then you turn on this guy in the same way. I don't think you are helping your cause with this behavior. You are just proving the point of those that are against you. And You apparently feel the same about the ranger that some of the other folks on here feel towards your profession. It is also interesting to look at the professions of those that seem to be attacking each other. There are deffinitly some trends there. Just saying, it is an interesting topic.

I think some folks here are overreacting just a bit Cops do more than just take reports and they are not all corrupt. And, not all cops think that law-abiding constitution loving Americans are Terrorists.

It just came out that the shooter was carrying a stolen AR-15.     Yup, the media will have a hay day with this one.  I imagine NBC and ABC are already saying it was a super automatic AK-47 with a 10,000 round magazine capable of blowing people in half.     I think I will just watch a movie and keep the news turned off.  I don't feel like being angry tonight. 

There are a finite amount of hand gestures, so one form could have several meanings.  You anti-"tinfoil" guys are going to be the downfall of yourselves and a lot of people by constantly discounting everything that anyone points out as being something to possibly be concerned about.  Why are you guys so accepting of everything as "harmless"?  When does something cross the line with you guys or start to concern you?  Maybe we all should check with you guys before posting anything to make sure that it's not too crazy.  People are not crying wolf or saying that xyz is absolutely positively verifiably true, but many posts on here pointing out a possible relationship to past history which may be cause for concern are so easily dismissed by many of you as being "tin foil", that when some of it turns out to be true...well...you and others will be caught by surprise.

1. it had the 3/8" rings. Will not fit on the wider weaver/picatinny rails like your AR has   2. you could have replaced the rings on it, but a scope designed for .22LR rifle won't likely hold up on a more powerful rifle   3.  once you get past .22LR scopes, most don't come with rings at all. Scopes are generally of two diameters for the ring, 1" and 30mm, 1" being the more common. The part that grabs the rail is referred to as weaver or picatinny.   4. most folks want conventional front and rear sights on their AR as backup even if they are running an optical sight of some type. Your Sportical has a railed gas block for sight base so you'd need both front and rear ones. Usually folks use flip up types, would allow a conventional scope to be mounted with high rise rings to clear the rear sight in down position to keep from taking it on and off.   - OS

Call me crazy but if you were not driving and you were just simply in the vehicle, why did you volunteer information that was not pertinent for the stop? If the officer was not stopping you directly, you were not under any pressure to volunteer information or even show him id. I could be wrong but next time if you're not the one being "detained" then don't answer his questions.

Some would call it intimidation.

It ain't fear, it's called caution.....

I have to admit that I’m a bit befuddled with some of the posts that seem to either indicate suspicion of if not hostility toward officers. I’ve seen it in a lot of threads on this forum and I really don’t understand where these apparent feelings are coming from.  Is it just that I’m from a generation that believed most LEOs were good people who wanted to serve? And, is that belief no longer justified?   I don’t get it…I really don’t.   I understand that no one wants to have an “official” encounter with a LEO but about 99.9% of the time; if we have one it’s because we really HAVE done something wrong and about 99.9% of the time the officer will treat you with the same courtesy and respect he/she gets from YOU.  The officer isn’t out to trample on your “rights” (real or imagined or misunderstood) and he isn’t out to just cause you trouble – he’s there to do a job and I’m very glad he is.   I know there are bad officers out there but if you really want to complain why not do so about the ones who really deserve it?  I can’t see that the officer in this encounter did ANYTHING wrong; shouldn’t we be glad for that?  :shrug:

That's funny!   I know the LEO did a great job and that's all cool, but what I really liked about this video is seeing today's youth standing up for their rights. There is far too little of that today. And young people are so much more influenced by peer pressure which in today's culture is the liberalization of America. Bravo to them for standing up. 

Take notes.   Coming Soon to a Civil War near you. . . .

An Abrams crew probably wouldn't even fire on it. They'd just chase it down and run over it. Be like a Kenworth running over a snapping turtle. *crunch!* Eeewwww!

I guess this video here just gets thrown right out the window: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEGtkHRyFWE.  So the lesson is always seek to de-escalate potentially violent situations and deter crime, unless your manhood is being challenged on the internet, because then you need to become macho dude and fight anybody who calls you a coward.  Check.  Way to send a message of consistency and credibility.  I'll remember that next time I'm deciding which instructor I want to spend my money on.   

  Keep believing it's the hype.  Keep thinking its not a well regarded manufacturer using known quality parts to construct a quality weapon.  You want to use a DPMS or whatever, fine.  There's a reason they have the reputation they do and others have the reputation they do.   It's a friggin AR?  Average skill and minimal tools?  And yet you see, read, and hear about people screwing them up every day.  There is a big difference between a company that knows what its doing and some guy watching a grainy youtube video.  Do what you want but I'm going to trust the factory built weapon from a company like BCM before I'm going to trust Billy Bob down the street wrenching on things.   Don't want to train with him?  Whatever.  Find a trainer you want and rock on.  But it's definitely a plus for those who want it or want to try it. 

I don't know this guy, or know his qualifications, but I thought this was a good video and the information is presented well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=sC3u9TZnSEc

I can tell you what the leadership wants to do...either ignore us or screw us over by passing worthless bills that just make the firearms law more confusing all the while saying to us, "what? we pass gun laws for you this session." Nothing will actually change until we have leadership that actually lets our reps vote on stuff and not keep bills in committee. That said, I think those three things would be great. Parking lot needs to happen for EVERYONE in TN that's not on federal property. Shouldn't matter where it is. Should take away the ability for local parks to post...which ironically they are unconstitutionally allowing locals to make the law when THEY are supposed to decide and only them. And removal of the sign law as it's also unconstitutional.

[quote name='sventvkg' timestamp='1354844796' post='856177'] This INFURIATES ME. What part of SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED in the 2nd amendment don't these Govt. gun grabbers not understand. I'm suck of it. Beyond sick of it...that form you have to fill out when getting your handgun permit in this state is nothing short of an abomination of the very fundamentals of the 2nd amendment and what our founders outlined as our GOD GIVEN RIGHTS that can't be infringed by Govt. My definition of what we live under is Tyranny.[/quote] [quote name='sventvkg' timestamp='1354844851' post='856180'] He had NO SUCH RIGHT. He had rule of and unconstitutional law ruled constitutional by a fraud. PERIOD.[/quote] Go get 'em, Spartacus! Btw, I assume you put your money where your mouth is -- NRA and TFA member, for example? - OS

There are no local hog hunting except a limited number of WMA's. All the landowners around with hogs are collecting big bucks from hunters to hunt hogs. In my opinion it's worse now than when hunting hogs was allowed! Land owner's seen a way to make money year round and are cashing in on it! Good luck on your search! Dave S

Just a note, when it comes to rural trespass and especially hunting TWRA is much more responsive that county sheriffs. I've had county deputies not even show up, TWRA most always sends and officer

The way I look at it is which one holds their value better? If both are around the same price then I am definitely going with the Nighthawk due to it being a more recognized name and inevitably holding its value better. Im not saying Hero 1911's arent good(Never shot one though) but when I think of small shop local builders I think of Useltons and how I use to see his $4,000 1911's sitting used on shelves throughout various local gunshops for around $800.