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You are not justified in the use of deadly force to protect property. If someone threatens you with a gun you are no longer protecting property; you are protecting your life. The fact they have a gun means nothing; unless they use it or threaten you with it. My own personal test for the use of deadly force is very simple and would, I think, apply to most states. The use of deadly force would be justified if a reasonable person would believe they were in immediate danger of death or great bodily harm. Keep in mind that what a “reasonable person” believes doesn’t mean anyone cares what you were thinking; they don’t. It means a jury will decide if they thought what you did was reasonable to them. You can’t shoot someone and know you won’t kill them; so that is not addressed in the law. Shooting them assumes deadly force. Part of taking care of your family means staying out of prison and not financially bankrupting your family with a criminal trial. You probably don’t own any property that is worth risking that. Now having said that let me add this… I was a Police Officer in a time where we could shoot people committing or fleeing forcible felonies. Those times are past and you, nor the Police can do that anymore. We need that changed back. Our laws need to protect the victim; not the offender.

Okay, I’ve gotten some time to come up for air. I’ve reread everything here and will offer a few thoughts. Upfront, there will certainly be folks who disagree with me. Take these thoughts for what they are, and maybe use them to process your own church’s response. It sounds like you’ve got a good engaged leadership. First, this is absolutely Kingdom work. Scripture is concerned with three types of people over and over again - the sojourner, the widow, and the orphan. You might argue that a young drug addict doesn’t fall into any of these categories. But, he’s clearly an “other” who society has little use for. Jesus would see this young man and engage with him. This young man is Jesus’s kind of person. Second, working with folks like this is a long effort. It’s dirty. It’s personal. It can be life changing - for the people doing the work as well as the person being helped. When you decide to help - it will change the way that you see things. Things are rarely as simple as we like to try to see them. And working with folks with needs like these will change the way you see things. We’re a small church (150 on a good Sunday) and have worked regularly with 3 or 4 folks who’ve struggled with addiction and homelessness for years now - literally 8 years in a couple of the cases. There are rarely any clean breaks. We work towards that - but there are definitely systemic issues that make it tough. Be prepared for the long haul. Third, there are going to be some people who will be quite vocal in opposing working with this young man. The way I think about this is sort of like this - if this is Kingdom work - it’s very much at the border of the Kingdom. We’ve built our comfortable suburban churches to be at what we see as the center of the Kingdom. So, we rarely have to get our hands dirty if we don’t want to - and a lot of us don’t want to - so we’re really uncomfortable with it when we experience it. Think of a person who’s only ever bought meat neatly shrink wrapped at the grocery store suddenly having to slaughter their own meat. Many really aren’t going to like it. —- File this next part under the thoughts of a church of Christ guy who is deeply skeptical of some of the ways we’ve organized our churches today. What I’m about to say is likely to offend a lot of folks. Feel free to skip ahead. I’m deeply skeptical of the “security teams” that we’re organizing in a lot of our churches. We’ve organized these suburban churches that give us these curated experiences that make us feel good about our personal relationships with Jesus. But, do we see the Gospel in our churches? if we’re not careful - the illusion of security in our churches can become idolatrous. I think we really need to struggle with this more than we do. To go back to my Kingdom language from earlier, I think we see ourselves as being close to the center of the Kingdom. But, in reality we’ve created these cloistered, walled off churches and don’t realize that we’re way more isolated than we think we are. Jesus referred to folks like this as whitewashed tombs once upon a time - and I think It’s probably worth holding up mirror every now and then and taking a good hard look. The irony of it is, we don’t realize it - but we’re not fully experiencing the Kingdom either. There’s a rich seven course meal waiting, but we’ve convinced ourselves that the stale sandwiches we’re eating are as good as it gets. This young man is isolated in ways that are public. But, what we don’t realize is that a lot of us experience isolation in ways that are just as debilitating - but we suffer in private. One of the things that we’ve lost in the modern Western church is that historically there was no idea of personal salvation. Redemption and salvation was delivered through community. I’d offer for thought that by leaving our comfort and heading to the borders of the Kingdom, we might find that salvation comes to us all. Happy to discuss this further out of this thread. —- Back to this young man, I’d offer some pragmatic thoughts. 1. Let your safety team operate as sort of “congregational concierges.” I think we see shootings and want to see the outsider as an opposition force. But, in the Kingdom, everyone is welcome. This young man may in fact go to the front of the line at the proverbial wedding banquet. We need people on these teams who default to being welcome and generous. 2. This young man may not be in a place where he’s ready to accept help. He may not know that he needs help. But, if we figure that God brings people though our doors for a reason - then we need to see him and invite him into the Kingdom. 3. But, it’s okay to set some ground rules. Sort of a framework like - we’re happy to help - but you can’t be high at services. You cannot ask members for money. Appoint a point of contact (maybe a deacon) and funnel through that person. 4. Think about other resources in your congregation who might be able to help. For instance, you might have folks who would never volunteer for a “safety team” - but who work in other helpful spaces. In our church, we have nurses, a mental health resource, people who work in non profits in housing, and social workers. The value that they bring to the table is infinite. And, it’s great to see them use their professional talents for the Kingdom. 5. Consider outside help. We put something in place a while back where we basically subsidize counseling for our members. Specifically, any member of our church can go to counseling for $5 per session - which basically rounds to free. We pay $70 as a church to make up the difference. I see both the bills and the uptake in our church - and from a pastoral perspective, this is probably the best money we spend in a given year. You’re in middle Tennessee - so I could put you in touch with resources that could set something like this up. 6. Scaffold your help. This is a long effort and there is some fatigue that can go along with it. Have that point person or persons - but check in regularly and have your elders keep up with what’s going on. 7. Work towards reconciliation. This young man needs healing - and his family needs to be a part of it. He and they may not be ready for it - but it’s worth looping back on. 8. Know that the Holy Spirit certainly plays the long game and will work in ways that we cannot even fathom if we’ll just make room for it to happen. That was a long answer to your question - but know you’re doing Kingdom work. Certainly my prayers are with you. Happy to talk further if it’s helpful.

I don't know anyone who would send you copies of their DL or HCP. LOL

@Hozzie = John Wick

If you answered no, you could always go with this...

My guess is he's working a deal and rolling over on everybody he knows connected to his charges. LE wants the big fish. My advice is to stay as far away from this as you can. Nothing good will come from your curiosity.

Good advice, but also dont forget that God gave you eyes to see and a brain to think with...

Send it back to Sig. They'll fix it. Mine has been dead-nuts reliable, but obviously they had problems with early production runs. I've had problems with Smith and Wesson M&Ps, Glocks, Kimbers, Remingtons... you name it. These are mechanical things made by people. You're going to have problems sooner or later if you buy enough and shoot enough. The measure of quality is whether the manufacturer stands behind it and fixes whatever the issue was.

Gen 4 Glock 27 for sale. Excellent condition. Garage kept, lady driven, low miles, non-smoker, super clean, never wrecked, all maintenance records,. Price: $365.00 I know I know, the kid behind the counter at the LGS is crying ".40 is dead!" If you buy into that, you might as well stop reading right here. If, however, you want something faster than a speeding .45 bullet, more powerful than a 9mm, and able to leap tall buildings in a single round, then you can appreciate the venerable .40 S&W. This gem comes with three mags, backstraps, paperwork and box, just like it came from the factory. Cash sale to TN permit holders only, must be willing to sign bill of sale. Call or text (615) 512-3903 if interested, or if you'd just be willing to help me come up with some better marketing cliches. Calls/texts will be answered/returned in the order in which they were received.

Up for consideration is my nearly mint 1911. This was a special edition that Ruger offered. I loved the look because it doesn't have the giant roll mark. Other than the grip safety and barrell, the gun looks unfired. It's in excellent shape. Can meet in Knox or Loudon county. Here is more info and what I'm including. -commander length -6 mags -VZ grips. I'll include the original as well -Novak style Trijicon Night sights -Original box, paperwork, and soft case -Pancake style holster -est round count is 300. I purchased this new in 2015. $750 No Trades

Much good here. And lots to think on as to how we relate to people everywhere. One situation that causes me to think a lot is the "street sellers...the paper vendors...to the outright beggers." I see so many that say they are in need of help and this is the way they live day to day. The only thing they can do. Really? Personally, except in rare instances, I believe if you can stand on a street corner or in an intersection for 8 hours a day, you are able to do work of some sort. If you can have cigarettes and cell phones while doing this...I question your motives, if not your character. I've heard said that some of these are God's Angels in disguise, testing how we respond. True or not, how we handle this is telling of our spirit. I'm weak, I know that. I don't always stop or slow down to ask or to give money. I use my questionable judgement to decide who I should give to. My decision. My very small attempt to help. My failure? Is this wrong? Am I passing judgement on someone simply because of the superficial things I see? Probably yes in both cases. In true faith and love, we are called to help...everyone. But I fear that I, and others around us, have become so jaded in our own little worlds that we become an arbiter of judgement. Not helpers and healers of men. I have failed in this. I admit it. I have failed in much in this world, and it weighs upon me. I miss the old country church I went to as a child. Life was simpler then...more black and white, good and evil...faith was a constant, a power in our lives. For many reasons, we have strayed from it. So have I. My vague, rambling commentary may have some nuggets of truth. You decide.

I would go for a brand new Marlin 1894c in .357. Marlin has retooled and more or less fixed the problems of the past few years with this model. The fit and finish on one I almost bought was excellent (for a gun made in 2018). The only reason I didn't buy it was because the Ruger PC carbine was a more immediate need.

Smith & Wesson model 66-3 Chambered in 357 magnum 4" barrel Stainless Finish in great shape Pachmayr Grip NO BOX $600 FTF in east tn but I do travel so meeting elsewhere is possible. TRADES- Currently I'm in the market for an FN 57 and/or a PS90. I'd prefer in FDE or OD but black will be considered. I am always looking for Dan Wesson's, Colts, S&W's, Rugers, Savage 24's, 6" 1911's, 10mm's I don't have, AK's , etc. I am set on the AR platform.

Sold

As a former Police Officer I can assure you that unless you start making unreasonable demands; you will not be seen as “problem” for the Police. Do you not have any cops in your congregation? If so you might want to fill them in on what’s going on and let them handle it. If not, and the problem continues you can have an Officer come out and let them handle it however they think best. Keep in mind a couple of things though before you do that. Cops aren’t social workers like they have been in the past. If he hasn’t committed a crime there isn’t much they can do except maybe refer you to some agencies that can help you. If a crime is committed and there is probable cause to believe he did he; he will likely be thrown in jail. Jail is not a good path to help….ever. Sure you will here stories about that happening, but most of them are BS, the real ones are very rare. You would know better than anyone here if his actions indicate a possibility of violence. But it sounds like a good possibility your church or some of its members are about to be victims of property crimes. I guess what I’m trying to say is that as a former cop I believe the pastor and the elders of your church are in a far better place to deal with this problem than the Police. The Police can’t fix broken people, all they can usually do is break then some more. I feel there is more to the story if they have given up??

You better get privy and you better do it before you act. I’m not trying to sound like a hard azz, but I would do exactly whatever your Church leaders tell you to do. They have been made aware of the problem and apparently decided they are not equipped to deal with it; so ask them what they want you to do when he shows up or who they want you to call that is equipped to deal with him. You can’t guess. Don’t put yourself in a situation you don’t need to be in.

We picked our sweet corn last night, before the coons ate all of it. We're putting it up now. BUNCH of friggin' corn! I've killed 4 coons, one possum, and lost count of the crows, but haven't put a dent in them. I hate coons. Maybe one day I'll have enough foresight to not plant it all the same day.

Not much to update in that area @Jamie Jackson . I have only spent an hour or so on it since Monday. I almost have all the parts cut out of the Maple ply for the Dillon and Rock Chucker mounts. If I manage to drag my weary bones up to the shop this morning I'll have all parts cut and begin drilling dowel holes. Biggest thing I did was relocate bulk ammos to the room. I need to get into Nashville to get the Melamine top and fascia boards for the bench. I want one continuous top so I need to go to Home Depot (they sell 4x8 sheets) because Lowes doesn't have 8ft long boards wider than 15". So that's a 130 mile round trip in a truck I am waiting to combine with other needs. The reload room project is an extension of a much larger project. Since moving here my shop has been more like a giant storage shed than a functional shop. Things were deposited in the move or have accumulated since and never seemed to find a permanent home. I finally had enough of it and am dealing with it. So, much like chess I have to move pieces around in order to get the stage set for the end game. In order to free up space 'A' to build a bench and shelves, I have to move crap 'R' thru 'Z'. But where to put crap 'R' thru 'Z'? Well, R thru Z would make sense in space C, but then crap D thru Q needs to be moved etc, etc......etc. An arduous process when the temp is 95+ and heat index reaches (a new high) 125.

I don't care if someone wants to steal my car (so long as I am not in it), but mess with my dog and no one may ever know where you went.

Our garden is kinda meh so far. The yellow squash just rolled over and died before making any fruit. The zucchini made some fruit before the stink bugs got it. The rabbits ate the okra to the ground. Cucumbers are hanging on, but definitely not thriving. Tomatoes are ok, got a few with black spot and the birds keep pecking holes in them. That giant volunteer vine turned out to be a white pumpkin. Got 2 gourds and the vine appears to be dying. Maybe I'll get a summer pumpkin pie.

This am, I ordered a new gun I've been wanting for a while. Walther PPS M2 RSMc 9mm. Has a Shield red dot sight with 4MOA dot. Should be here Thurs. or Fri. Anxious to say the least. Got zeroing to do. Sights co-witness with the iron sights, if needed. The dot stays on all the time & adjusts for light. We'll see how it goes, will take some getting used to. My old eyes, and tri-focal glasses, will, I think work better than with iron sights. Ordered from Lebanon Gun Shop, on Hartman Dr.

Still doing a little safe cleaning. Up for sale is a Colt Gold Cup Elite. This was part of the limited run of Accusports Elites made in the late 80's. There was only 750 made in .45 acp. This was not a safe queen. It shows some good honest wear from being shot but is still in good condition. It comes with everything that came with it from the factory. Box, paperwork, takedown tool and even comes with a Colt letter. This will make a nice addition to someones collection. $1550

Thanks, I guess I should have been more specific. I'm after the unicorn with the short horn (16 inch barrel) but it's starting to look like I'm going to have to settle for the 20 incher.

https://grabagun.com/braztech-rossi-92357201-3-r92-lever-action.html you are welcome

I have a Rossi copy of a 92 Winchester. With 38 target loads, it’s like shooting a BB gun for big guys. With full power 357s, you know you’re shooting a real rifle.

1989 Overland Bus for sale or possible trade. 38' Detroit 8.2 turbo diesel Allison Transmission Onan "quiet" diesel 10k generator 22.5 Alcoa aluminum wheels Hydraulic leveling jacks Central vacuum system Furnance Dual roof AC units Newer model fridge and freezer New installed toilet New Queen mattress This was bought by my father with intentions to remodel and see the country in but health issues have permanently squashed those plans. It has plenty of potential but is dated as the pics show. While nothing would prevent you from setting it up to camp out of today it has a couple issues that I would address if I were in the position of the buyer. TIRES- while they are 10 or 12 ply they are old and show rot. We have traveled locally with it but I wouldn't want to start out toward Yellowstone with it. REAR WINDOW- theres one window that was damaged and the glass is missing. It's been sealed off so it doesn't affect you camping in it or it being stored but something high on my list of fixes. Anyone seriously interested can contact me and I can run on at length about it. Even if you aren't a camper or traveler it has the potential to be a badazz hunting hideaway. I suppose you could camo paint it and use the missing window as a snipers nest While I'm really trying to recover as much of dads money as possible I am willing to look at trades or partial trades that interest me. These include but not limited to firearms, farm tractor, bobcat, high lift, duramax diesel chevy truck, powerstroke ford truck, cummins dodge truck, dirt bike, full size Harley, Early Hayabusa, van, box truck, old street rod, station wagon, etc Asking $12,000 It's located in Jefferson City Tn 37760

I'm not in buying mode but I've got to say, I loved the post.

Recently picked up this gem from @bud and managed to get to the range with it this week. She’s a great shooter, even if I’m not. Half size silhouette at 10yds.

Springfield 9mm XD mod. 2 subcompact with 3" barrel. Low mileage, less than 250 rounds thru it. Comes with 6 mags. 13 and 16 round 3 mags each. 2 Blackhawk leather holsters. One is OWB and one is IWB. Take it all for 400.00. Buyer to meet FTF on Lebanon Rd. in Old Hickory. Must show proof that you are a resident of Tn. Price is firm. I have no interest in trades. Thanks for looking.

As long as he has money for the lawyer, and the lawyer has money for the judge, these things can press on for years it seems. You won’t likely convince me that criminal court is anything more than an extortion racket.

But in a really mean and nasty sort of way!

First up is this hollow ground 9" in OAL blade. It has over 260 true layers and is nearly 1/4" thick at the spine. The blade is about 4 3/4" long. The handles are Spalted Tamerind with tru-stone, black & white G10 accents and black liners. It has mosaic pins and brass lanyard hole. It comes with the combo kydex/leather sheath shown. This beauty is $150 shipped! Second is the 11 1/2" OAL beauty with a false edge and hollow grind. The blade is right at 6" long. it has over 500 layers to achieve it's look. It's about 3/16" thick at the spine. The handles are new product from Voodoo Resins. They have this unique look with the added aluminum mesh added into the blade. Very cool and different. It has SS pins and lanyard tube and comes with the combo kydex/leath sheath shown. This is $160 shipped.

If the young mans parents have given up on him it sounds like he has been a handful before coming to the Church. There is only so much help you can give anyone that does not want to help themselves and it sounds like this is one of those cases. He was living with his parents and would not continue his rehabilitation which is an indication he does not want help, he wants a handout. I don't know if the church leaders have notified the proper authorities such as local police and discussed their problem maybe they should at least make them aware of the issue. The police may already have him on their radar but if they don't they need to..............JMHO

Picked up one of these S&W EZ 380s from Academy a while back for 329.00. This is the version without thumb safety. It does everything a .380 is supposed to but easier: 1) shoots fast to point of aim (recoil is negligible) 2)reliable 3) mags are the easiest center pistol mags I have ever loaded 4) You can rack the slide with two fingers. It is not as small as my Keltec P32 but it is so easy to grab and shoot. I can't begin to recall all the small handguns I have owned, including various ultra light revolvers. This thing beats them all in terms of ease of use. I am not getting younger. A review: https://dailycaller.com/2018/06/28/gun-test-sw-mp-380-shield-ez/

Where's MacGyver when you need him? He's very good at this type thing.

I feel comfortable discussing Illinois gun laws because I know them. That does not include Chicago or Cook County. I’ll give you my opinion, but you need to do the research if you are entering Cook County. Chicago and Cook County has routinely thumbed their nose at not only the Attorney General of the State of Illinois, but the SCOTUS. Chicago finally conceded that state laws trumps their law and there are no magazine limitations. Illinois allows cities and counties to pass their own gun laws. But they require them to notify the state and have them posted in a public area. This link is that area for information on any city or county you may be going into. https://www.ispfsb.com/Public/Firearms/MunicipalOrdinances.aspx Illinois law does not require you to notify an Officer you are carrying if you are stopped. It does require you to answer truthfully if you are stopped and asked. Your carry permit only covers you in your vehicle. If you exit that vehicle carrying a loaded gun; you are committing a crime. You will find that most of the LEO's in Illinois are very professional and polite, that includes the Illinois State Police on the highways, who have an excellent reputation. That does not include the Chicago PD. If you get stopped by them don’t become stupid; most of the stories you have heard about them are probably true. I hope this helps, have a nice trip. EDIT: I should probably add that my comments above assume a Tennessee HCP. If you do not have an HCP or do not have it on your person to hand to the Officer; you can’t have a loaded gun in your vehicle in Illinois.

Andy Devine. https://www.andydevinedaysfestival.com/andy-devine

Buddy bought a 82a1 from outpost armory, Ronnie drove over and signed his rifle case.

Since we currently don't own a still, it was blanched, bagged, and frozen. I'm told that canned sweet corn isn't very good.

Nope....sorry...didn't happen. It was dark brown. I'm sure of that because I read it on the World Wide Web.

I can have a gun in my car on My Tennessee HCP. I don’t know why a Florida permit would be any different, but it may be. Here is what the Illinois law has to say about it: (430 ILCS 66/40) (e) Nothing in this Act shall prohibit a non-resident from transporting a concealed firearm within his or her vehicle in Illinois, if the concealed firearm remains within his or her vehicle and the non-resident: (1) is not prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm under federal law; (2) is eligible to carry a firearm in public under the laws of his or her state or territory of residence, as evidenced by the possession of a concealed carry license or permit issued by his or her state of residence, if applicable; and (3) is not in possession of a license under this Act. If the non-resident leaves his or her vehicle unattended, he or she shall store the firearm within a locked vehicle or locked container within the vehicle in accordance with subsection (b) of Section 65 of this Act.

Well, time passed... We made an offer during the April trip, came down in June and met with contractors, and close on July 29th. The house in Jefferson City, OUTSIDE actual city limits. So from what I've seen so far I'll be as legal as can be, property is 21 acres with an unimproved 10 acre parcel on the long Axis (1400 feet road to survey post) on the "range side". So if I shoot along that line aiming away from the road I'll have a minimum of 1000 feet of fishing land covered in untouched forest as a berm:) 1500 feet of road frontage means 10 unimproved (not even electric service) to my right, a hill in front, and minimum 1500 feet to my property line to the left. Across the road is 100+ acres of pasture, looks to hilly to build on. I think I'll be good;)

Get a heavy plastic mallet or use a wood block to protect the case, then whack it, it'll come loose. Could also try leaving the bolts only loose a couple turns and tapping on the bolt heads.

Very few things can be explained completely with a few typed lines. As Dave pointed out, your home is not automatically a free kill zone. While the law weighs heavily to the homeowner, your flashlight is a very important tool in the middle of the night. Daytime or night, you still need to recognize your target/intruder. Is it a relative? A drunk student or neighbor that wandered into your home, but otherwise not a threat. A 14 yo who entered on a dare. Is it someone you can live with yourself if you kill them, or will it haunt you the rest of your life, especially if you shot the 14yo in the back running out of your house? Lots of questions with complicated answers to make in a blink of an eye. Again a huge responsibility for a gun owner.

Iv done a bunch of custom mods to the SKS design. Its like the K98 mauser of mid weight semi autos. Just yesterday I finished up the machining specs so you can use factory ASC AR-type magazines in the SKS. Its for use with the Marcus G9 mag adapter. With this new machining spec, it will get the G9 adapters back on the market. That makes factory mags completely interchangeable with AR-47's.

Typically: arrange to meet, show requested credentials, exchange cash for gun, everyone goes home happy.

SOLD Excellent Kahr P9, Factory Tru Dot Night Sights, Box w/ all the stuff. I ran the “Kahr 200-round break-in” and that’s about it. I sent it to the factory 4 or 5 years ago to have night sights installed and they sent it back in a PM9 box. P9’s are slightly upgraded CW9’s...roll marks, polygonal rifling, etc. These are excellent subcompact carry pistols and you can get a full grip. These come with 2ea 8-rd mags. I replaced it with a G43X because...well just because. Priced to sell at $375. Possible trade up to Glock 19 gen 5 only I live in Sevier Co, so Knox area is easy, but I am also frequently in the Murfreesboro/Lebanon area and I’ll be flexible with possible meets.

TFBTV review of the P365XL. It’s got my interest.