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  I agree. Which is why I always have one on me. You know, in case things go south real fast.   - OS

  This ain't about Zman. Zman wasn't presented to the entire nation as Barack Obama's son.

  In a vacuum. When a thug gets shot, somebody, somewhere, always says, "he was a good boy". Based on all we have seen about Trayvon, outside of Crump's marketing campaign, is that he was an aspiring thug. It has some significance in the case because of all the original misleading media crap.   Sure, he could have been buying iced tea (actually, it wasn't) and skittles for a nice evening at home. Let's don't ignore the fact that an evening with the Cleavers didn't quite fit his character.

Who rides in a tank top anyway.

But they have helmets one, they can't get hurt?!

Riding Leathers: because it's easier to walk away in disgust than to ride away in an ambulance.

And if they do share a tent, does that automatically mean they are going to engage in sex?  I have been around many females and gay men in my life and - lo and behold - we were all able to control ourselves.  Who could imagine?!?

Between my TGO friends and my family and friends from my homeland, y'all are about to give me a complex. One side thinks I'm too liberal because of my views on gays and abortion, and the other side thinks I'm too conservative because of my views on guns, welfare, immigration and healthcare.  :slapfight:  

The "innocent kid portrayal" was created by the media when they ran those pics of a 6 yr old Martin and the innocuous trip to the store for tea and candy. The "evil gunslinging mall cop portrayal" included the mug shots of Zimmerman and a doctored 911 tape making it sound like he singled-out lil Trayvon because he was black. This helped get this case spiralling into deep waters, as is evident by the perpetually offended Sharpton and his ilk swooping in to play the race card. Now, it seems the case will be forever tainted as a white on black hate crime, even if it wasn't. If the DA hadn't pressed charges, there'd have been riots. If a jury acquits Z or only gives him a slap on wrist, there'll be riots. Every piece of evidence presented to contradict the "innocent kid portrayal" is attacked as an irrelevant character assassination. I found all the evidence about burglary tools, stolen jewelry, handgun ownership by a minor, drug usage, and general displays of thug-like behavior much more pertinent than dropped charges of domestic violence and resisting arrest. This evidence along with the real 911 tape, witness accounts, and the map of the neighborhood made the idea that TM doubled-back to attack GZ much easier to believe than GZ running TM down to assault/confront him. That's just where my stance came from, but clearly others disagree and that's cool. This is actually another piece of that evidence that got me wondering if TM was an innocent kid from the start. I can't prove it, but I'd bet you money he was headed home to mix up some "Drank"/"Lean" (Watermelon flavored iced tea + Skittles + Robitussin http://therealrevo.com/blog/?p=75112). According to this link, it's very popular in southern rap culture. Just read about the 4 levels or plateaus it creates. Like I said, I may be wrong, but based on his past, it's easier to believe than "lil Trayvon walked to the store one night in the rain, just to get candy and tea and was murdered by a white man with a chip on his shoulder".

Absolutely nothing - it's just a little humor.   It also serves as a reminder that talking about the subject of this thread is just as useful as arguing about the "best" caliber for a defensive handgun, whether it should be a Glock or a 1911, whether one should carry open or concealed or any other of a hosts of subjects that have been both beaten to death and to which there really is no "one right answer".

      I think it will be hard to get 12 people to agree on a verdict in this case. I think it will be a hung jury and the drama will start again as the state decides if it will retry the case or not.

I thought we had a gay POTUS

Interesting thread. Just wait till it's a food shortage.

I'm convinced that y'all just like to argue :)

You can't start a threat with Oh My! unless it deals with George Takei

I wouldn't be surprised if your friend is full of it.

How about this - we just stop celebrating everyone's sexual proclivities. As long as the adults aren't molesting the kids lets just stop talking about it so much. Whatever happened to basic decency wen people wouldn't dare talk about their sexual relations in public? Jeez

This teacher faces having a "letter of remedy" placed in his employment file, because he warned his students of their 5th Amendment right.   Warning lands Batavia teacher in hot water

There is a lot of stuff discussed in this section that isn't necessarily "firearm related".   Besides, the Boy Scouts are a paramilitary group (I learned that from Red Dawn [original]) and we all know paramilitary groups use arms. :)

As John Lennon said...Happiness is a warm gun.

Just thought I would share my latest project. I have been slowly working on a 7.62x39 barreled Savage action that I acquired from a fellow TGO'er.The past week I was working on bedding the action into a new stock and and waiting on parts to arrive. Final parts arrived saturday and had to chance to sight her in today. Ran 40 rounds of wolf 122g fmj at 50 yards (75 yards is about all I have room for at home) All holes touching on 5 of my three shot groups. I am very pleased with this setup and it is cheap to shoot to boot.

  Is it too late to get a refund? :)

worst thing she could have done is throw that arm out ... OUCH!

I can imagine what she's screaming through the intercom 'bout now......The 'ol Dragon demands respect, that's for sure.  I've ridden it quite a few times on cruisers, Goldwing, etc....but never to see how fast I can ride it. I'm just glad I didn't know abut it back in the 70's....I rode a 1100 Kawasaki back in those days....LOL

A man's got to know his limitations.

Sounds like a split personality to me ;)

I was born & raised in Indiana so I have been a "shotgunner" since the day I was old/big enough to be able to shoulder a .410 properly (the late 1970's), and to this day I still love shotguns & I am especially fond of pump-action shotguns for their reliability. I currently own a Mossberg 590A1, two Mossberg 500's & a Remington 870, all of them chambered in 12g except for one of the 500's which is a youth model chambered in 20g. As you can see I prefer the design of the Mossberg 590/500 action's over pretty much any other pump-action design, there are multiple reasons for this but I'm just going to skim over a couple of the more important reasons behind my preference for Mossberg. 1.) The most drastic & important is (IMHO) the design of the action itself, the "always open" design of the Mossberg's loading gate in particular. This makes the Mossberg's quicker & easier to slank shells into than the Remington "always closed" design & also there is no "pinch-potential" to your thumb like with the Rem 870's. There however a trade-off, Mossberg's always open loading gate design makes the Mossberg 590/500 series action's "feel clunky" when the action is cycled when compared to the Remington 870 design. 2.) Second most important difference is that the Mossberg 590/500 design has dual extractors, while the Remington 870's only have a single extractor, this is almost never a problem for the vast majority of shooters, but when/if it ever does become a problem it literally takes the Remington 870 "out of the fight" so to speak. The single extracor on the Remington doesn't even have to break for this to be a potential problem, I'll give you an example, granted this is something that doesn't happen very often but has happened to me a couple times using my Remington 870 while shooting trap & skeet with it. Anyway one of the times it happened was toward the end of a trap tournament, we had been at it all day & we were running our last few go arounds as quickly as possible trying to finish up so we could all go home. So at this point the Remington 870 had no down-time between rounds so it was getting hot & dirty and this caused a hull seized up real nice and tight in the chamber, I knew the reason why the moment I yanked the pump back to cycle the action & it wouldn't budge. The next yank on the pump was of course much more forceful & the action of my 870 opened but no empty hull came out, the single extractor of the 870 ripped the rim of the hull & now the chamber was obstructed & I of course had to forfit that go around to go fetch a cleaning rod in order to push out the stuck empty hull. Like I said, it doesn't happen often but when it does happen it takes the Remington completely out of action, granted its an easy fix but in a fire-fight it could be the difference between surviving it or dying in it. This has never been an issue with my Mossbergs, the dual extractors have always dislodged a stuck hull, no matter how hot &/or dirty the gun gets, even if I have to slam the pump in order to open/cycle it. 3.) Third most important difference is the ergonomics, just a couple of the more important to me ones are... A.) the Mossberg's tang mounted location of the safety allows me to "thumb" the safety on/off without having to "break my grip" on the weapon, this is with traditional rifle stocked shotguns, if you are using pistol griped shotguns the cross-bolt design & location of the safety on the Remington 870 is more ergonomic. B.) Next main ergonomic difference between the 590/500 & the 870's is the position of the action/slide lock release, on the Mossberg's it is behind the trigger guard which allows me to activate it without having to "break my grip" on the weapon, on the Remington's it is in front of the trigger guard & opn the opposite/wrong side, making me break my grip in order to activate/release it. Don't get me wrong, I still like Remington 870's & wouldn't hesitate to use one in an "life or death emergency" &/or SHTF scenario, I just personally like the Mossberg 590/500 design a lot better. I am not a fan of Winchester 1200/1300's, I had one years ago, used it a couple of times when the welds broke on the pump action arms, so the pump wouldn't work the action at all, it was a brand new shotgun too. I asked around while looking for replacement parts & that seemed to be a common problem with those shotguns (at that time) I am not sure if Winchester ever corrected that problem or not, it was a sweet looking & it had a silky smooth feeling actioned shotgun though. Anyway G'luck, everyone should own at least one shotgun, they are super-versitle w/regards to hunting & extremely effective for CQB, especially if loaded with 00 buck. Out of the pump-action shotguns that I currently own the 590A1 is easily my favorite out of the bunch, especially for HD/SHTF purposes, capacity is 8+1, with an extra +4 more shells in it's Speedfeed stock, it also has GRS (ghost ring sights)

I think it is to prevent overgassing more so than short stroking. Overgassing and short stroking can look similar.   The pigtail gives the gasses in the barrel time to drop before the gas hits the BCG. This extra time lets the pressures inside the barrel drop to "normal" levels before the BCG unlocks. If not then the pressures inside the abrrel will be higher than "normal" and those pressures exert more force on the case and the bolt. Those extra pressures inside the barrel as the BCG unlocks cause the BCG to accelerate at a faster rate causing the gun to have malfunctions related to overgassing.   By allowing the gasses in the barrel to reduce it reduces the chance of overgassing. Also a properly gassed gun runs cleaner, more reliably and with less felt recoil.   Anyone who has shot my 5 pound AR that is properly gassed will attest to how differently a properly gassed gun uns compared to a overgassed gun. And there has been a shift in the industry to overgas guns for "reliability".

If the BSA adopted its policy of not allowing gay boys to be part of scouts out of pressure from political forces (such as certain church or church related organizations) or some pressure group, is that in some way superior to then changing its policy because of pressure from groups with an opposing viewpoint or, does it all point to the same lack of backbone?   In the larger sense, while I don't think the policy against gays was appropriate; I believe the BSA, as a private organization had to right to set whatever rules it wants to set. That said, as you seemed to ask the question earlier, I do see that BAS as bearing a lot of the responsibility for this issue.

Personally I don't care. Gay people should have equal rights under the law and the law should be enforced. Then I can quit having to hear about this issue, every one can settle down and we can just be over it. This issue is really the least of our problems and is just another diversion thrown out by the culture warriors who usually don't contribute a hell of a lot to the discussion.   I want to hear somebody start talking about birth control.

I don't get what makes anyone think the the "rules" of the Neighborhood Watch program mean anything here???   Does anyone here even know if this group Zimmerman was part of was even connected to the formal Neighborhood Watch organization?   Even if they were; someone please tell me how the NW "rules" can override FL (or any other state's) law?   I'm a member of a NW group and if I'm awake, I'm armed...I don't give a flying you-know-what about NW rules and I'm sure as hell not going to leave my cave without my club EVER whether I'm trying to keep an eye on a suspicious person or walking to the local convenience store or out walking my dog.

  I really don't think it's about whether or not gay boys are allowed to participate. As you have pointed out, gays have already been a part of scouting for a long time, albeit in a clandestine manner.   My hope is that any promiscuity - and let's not kid ourselves, there will be - will be met with the appropriate punishment, not excluding expulsion from the troop. However, as we have seen recently regarding the case with the 18-year old lesbian committing statutory rape with a 14-year old girl, the gay lobby will quickly defend any and all alleged promiscuous behavior of gay scouts under the guise of discrimination against the gay youth.   This also sets up the gay scouts for being ostracized by non-gay scouts. As we all know, children can be cruel. And how long will it be before gay scout troops are created and even defended by organizations such as GLAAD and NAMBLA? Not that I would want my son to be part of such a group, but, of course, THAT kind of discrimination is A-OK because it's politically correct.   But I guess what concerns me more than anything is that the BSA succumbed to pressure and allowed a special interest group to dictate its membership policy.

This is a little late to be getting into this conversation, but as to the original question of "Why are you still buying ammo?", I'll tell you why.   I gave up shooting sports some 25 years ago....my reasoning for that is not important.  Last fall, I decided to begin again.  I bought a new Glock and accessories to begin competing in IDPA.  At the time, ammo was plentiful and reasonable.  I had no reason to stockpile anything.  I'm sorry I didn't see the host of school shootings by a handful of retards coming.  Did anyone?  If I were that good, I'd have picked the winning numbers in the last PowerBall and bought my own ammo factory.     Reload my own?  Nice try, but have you tried to find components lately?  Small pistol primers going for as high as $10/100!!  Bullets are out there but slow in coming.  Powder is also in short supply, and has anyone tried to find 9mm dies lately?  It's easier to find ammo than components.  Even presses are hard to come by.     Luckily, I have almost two cases of 9mm setting in my closet that I managed to snag just before the crap really hit the fan, and as I shoot it, I manage to find enough at WM to replace what I shoot in practice and at matches.  I don't get to shoot as much as I want, but I DO get to shoot.

I am sworn to secrecy, but they will be damn nice!

I have to agree on the race issue. It seems to me that was and still is a big issue in this case. It is not to me, but look who got involved in the case from the get go. Sharpton, Jackson, Obama....says a lot don't it.   In my opinion, Zman is guilty of something but not 2nd degree murder. I'm sure Florida has it all figured out. Jessie and Al gave them plenty of ideas I'm sure. Should Zman be punished any further? No. He's being punished for the rest of his life now as it is. He learned his lesson I'm sure.   Any punishment given to Zman is going to be based on how many people are standing outside the courthouse holding torches, and how much race is thrown in the jury's face. Remember, that at least half of that jury is going to be black.   Dave S

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/v/912435_10151397280165443_478846379_n.jpg?oh=bc40a5ac0f103db2bacc9324f184693c&oe=51A4F08F&__gda__=1369833967_d7f21de613119e23acf3b885d3734092 Head line placement fail.

I am one of those right-leaning Republicans. Maybe I'm not leaning far enough, because I am not buying into the notion that gays wanting to be part of the Scouts is part of some evil conspiracy to rule the world and force me to dress like one of the Village People.  

I am really looking forward to the evidence presented at trial from both sides.

I think the biggest hit the BSA took was when they were banned from holding meetings in schools and from camping on public land. That seemed to me to make finding places to hold meetings more difficult and made it more difficult to get boys back and forth to the meetings and it made finding places to hold events like campouts very difficult. Regardless of what the council voted, many disagree with the decision. If many parents of scouts are like me, they are against ANY open display or discussion of sexuality with their young boys, not just homosexuality. It's an issue that simply shouldn't have ever come up. Nobody in the BSA needs to know a kid's sexual tendencies and nobody there to be a scout needs for everyone to know. So their ranks will dwindle even more, b/c a few people have a perverse need for everyone to know their business.

  I won't disagree as I do understand that this entire situation had nothing to do with gays or religion.  This was a political attack by the left against mainstream/traditional America, and I believe the BSA made an enormous mistake in caving to the political pressure and changing its stance.  Those that engaged in the attack on the BSA, well..., I cannot put into words the contempt I have for these people.   Back to the original point I was trying to make.  Right and left leaning social groups (busybodies) have for years used the power of the media and government, legislative and judicial, to force their agenda or viewpoint upon others.  What they have unknowingly done is open Pandora's box, which is government involvement.  Now, we are engaged in this perpetual culture war, and the biggest losers will be traditional Americans like me who want nothing more than to be left alone.   The only way I can see out of these situations is to shrink the government.  As I stated earlier, we just have too many people in this country who somehow think they are special, and want to stick their nose into other's people business and try to conform people into their way of thinking.  Unfortunately, this will never change, so the only way to combat these people is by shrinking the government to the point that it will not be able to engage in such matters, which will render the busybodies powerless.

Sure that is part of it, but I don't see how folks don't find the fact that there is more ammo available through private sellers than EVER before even a little suspicious and wrong... At a cost several times more than available retail. Suspicious indeed.

    +1. People who didn't normally stockpile are now doing so. This is having a prolonged impact on overall availability.

was George Takai a boy scout?

You can bet they will say that the dog was trying to attack them. If that was the truth then they would have not fled the scene. The guilty usually run.

Stopped in to see if ammo had came in but it had not. But they had 3 boxes of 7.62x51 at $19.99 per box so I got one. Went back to the gun counter and they received a truck but hadn't opened anything. So I hung out for about 30 minutes while he went through them to see if they had any Ruger 10-22's. I've been wanting one for my daughter and always miss the shipments. Sure enough!!! $199 with wood stock, which is what she wanted. Can't wait to surprise her tonight!!

I would be ripping his arm off for that deal.

In the Bible Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.   We have allowed our morels to fall to the way side, and we are to blame.   One day we will have to answer for this.

heh... I've got a good one...   About 10 yrs ago, I was home alone (don't remember where my wife was) and had just started cleaning my SKS on the coffee table when the door bell rang. Just for laughs, I answered the door with the rifle in hand (the bolt was sitting on the coffee table). The 19 yr old kid's eye got kinda big, but he took a deep breath and launched into his pitch. The fact that the came in anyway impressed me, so I let him go. I continued cleaning the rifle while he talked. At every opportunity I'd clack, snap, or pop pieces together quite loudly just to watch him flinch. I had to try hard to keep a straight face. He started sweating.   :)   He went through the whole demo of comparing the Kirby to my current vacuum and extolled the virtues of the Kirby. Being the nerdy engineer type, I counter-pointed nearly every feature he said was better and challenged him to explain why it was better. He struggled a bit but didn't quit. He conceded a few things that I convinced him weren't actually any better, simply more (and unnecessarily) complicated. When he didn't have an answer, he said he would find out and let me know. Somewhere in there I got finished with the rifle and put it away.   As with everyone else, these sale presentations are exceedingly long and it was dinner time so I started fixing dinner for myself. I offer him something but he refused and continued with this pitch while I cooked. His boss came back by the house about the time I sat down to eat. She was pretty cute and I figured this is where she swoops in for the kill.   :dirty:   I told her that the kid was an excellent salesman and had performed admirably in the face of some pretty difficult questions. So while I'm eating my supper, time to talk brass tax comes. She dropped the $2100 bomb on me and I nearly choked.   :stunned:   $2100?!?! For a vacuum? Are you freakin' insane?    :eek:  Do you come with it and vacuum the house for me or something? My current vacuum cost me $100, do you know how much ammo I could buy with the other $2000?    We go back and forth for a while and the price eventually drops down to $700, which is still WAY more than I'd dream of spending on a vacuum. It had been over 2 hrs at this point and I decided I'd had enough fun for one night. So I looked the lady right in the eye and said (and I'm particularly proud of thinking this one up on the spot)....   "Ma'am, here's the deal. If I'm gonna spend that much money on something that sucks, it's damn sure gonna suck more than my carpet."   :wave:   The kid nearly exploded trying not to laugh. Again, I had a hard time keeping a straight face. She quickly and calmly packed up the vacuum and left. I still laugh thinking about it.   :rofl:     But there's more to the story... I told this story to some co-workers a day or two later. When I got to the $700 part, one of them says "Aw f_ck." Seems he paid $900 for his but should've held out a little longer.  

The whole bullpup with a bolt action is throwing me off. It looks like it would be awkward to operate as a bullpup was intended.

I'll have to drop by sometime and let you show me how you reload .22.